Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, hansel said:

I am going to make a little carbon fibre visor to sheld of the vents from eating stuff it shouldn't. I wonder why they didn't put them at the exact place but on the bottom? Afraid I might get into a crazy freak accident being scalped, safety first boys ;D

 

That reminds me. I need a hair cut!

 

anyway, if you put anything above it be careful not to interfere with the airflow too much 

 

7 hours ago, mkabi said:

The real question is 4K too much for m4/3?

https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/5258-top-end-cinema-cameras-it-s-all-becoming-clearer

After reading that article, I can deduce that Arri who is a leader in the industry didn't feel that true 4K on super35 was a good fit so they went LF....

 

It is more the case that Arri feels they only own ONE really really good sensor which is ready for production (I'm sure they working on others). Thus the easiest way to get true 4K from it is just to scale up the size of the sensor Itself 

 

 

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

If that's really a Sony sensor, I doubt that's going to be the cause of any production issues. Now a carbon fiber body being mass produced to meet tolerances, proper lens mount alignments and such seems a little more dicey IMO. I get they wanted to save weight, but a more traditional magnesium skeleton seems like it would be a little more robust. I'm curious if there will be any flex with larger lenses.

The Nikon D810 has a Plastic, carbon chassis and the D500 has it also along with the front face being a Plastic, Carbon combo. Hell Canon has used  glass filled poly-carbonate bodies for years. It isn't going to break or flex.. It is stronger, tougher, lighter than Titanium. I have had a lot of Canon bodies and I never had one crack, or hell even have scratches for that matter, It is some damn tough stuff. Titanium doesn't absorb any real force like plastic carbon can. It transfers it.

https://***URL removed***/forums/thread/3948389?page=2

Heck even airplanes and race cars are made of the stuff now. Most of the Boeing 777 is composites. All the high end super cars are made with it.

 

[OniBaba]

mmm.... BM says "The carbon composite material consists of a high strength polymer that’s reinforced with carbon fibers".

Which looks like thermoplastics with tiny carbon fibers REINFORCING IT, (as they do with GLASS FIBERS) not like CARBON FIBERS layers filled with resins as it done with proper commonly known as "carbon fiber"...2 different materials AND process (injection moulding vs laying by hand layers of carbon fibers cloth into moulds).

[amanieux]

20 hours ago, Philip Lipetz said:

Yes, notice as video. What matters most is the effective color resolution, and in that the BMPCC2 will be better. Introducing more spatial resolution without also increasing color resolution results in the video look. Something looks off, and it is discontinuity in color gradient  as it does not change at the same frequency as does the spatial information 

 

 

i have a newbie question : when we have a thin black line(less than 1 pixel width) on a white background like a telephone wire in the sky will raw 4:4:4 have double the resolution in x and double the resolution in y compared to h264 4:2:0 ? (for example i dont remember the old bmpcc in 1080p raw  having comparable resolution to 4k h264 4:2:0 :

).

[maxmizer]

sure that this camera is ugly

[Emanuel]

*rolleyes* scusa : ) No St Anthony per te : )) Maledizione di un portoghese ; ) Seems like to say from nowhere that your best 2nd half's face sucks... LOL :-)

[hansel]

2 hours ago, OniBaba said:

mmm.... BM says "The carbon composite material consists of a high strength polymer that’s reinforced with carbon fibers".

Which looks like thermoplastics with tiny carbon fibers REINFORCING IT, (as they do with GLASS FIBERS) not like CARBON FIBERS layers filled with resins as it done with proper commonly known as "carbon fiber"...2 different materials AND process (injection moulding vs laying by hand layers of carbon fibers cloth into moulds).

FACT!!! Having a hand-layed-carbon-fibre-textile-vac-bagged body would strech their (and our) budget slightly

[jonpais]

I hope they come out with the choice of a magnesium alloy body later.  

[salim]

15 hours ago, mkabi said:

After reading that article, I can deduce that Arri who is a leader in the industry didn't feel that true 4K on super35 was a good fit so they went LF

I think Arri can not shrink and put all their dual gain architecture into smaller sensor units (remember Arri has the best highlight rolloff and they basically take the signal and run it through two different amplification gain and then combine it back together) without the wires and pixels cross talking. I also think, they are building something that is future proof so they can support 6K or 8K in the future. They already have a sensor architecture that is still superior on the market. So why mess with it. Just make it larger to meet the higher resolution. 

So, if you don't care to have the buttery smooth highlight rolloff or can control your lighting, you can probably do just fine with 4/3. The 4/3 is about 1/4 the area of the FF. On my nikon of 36 mp. My Sigma Art 50 and some of my zeiss, voigtlander and adapted leica lenses have amazing pixel resolution. So 8 megapixel on 4/3 should *roughly* demand the same amount from the sensor and the lens. Which is BTW, is the exact resolution of  BM. The problem is the 4/3 hybrids that are 16 or 20 megapixels. So I think if you had 8 mp 4/3 sensor you could get the same DR as a Nikon D810, which is quiet amazing. 

[jonpais]

The low light ability of the GH5s is better, but I would really have to pixel peep to see a difference in DR between the two cameras. Maybe because V-Log Lite caps out at 11.5 stops? Not sure...

[Tone1k]

Native ISO of 3200 plus a speedbooster is plenty for low light.

[Logan]

22 hours ago, amanieux said:

fair enough, we all have different taste for image . is human eyes+brain system more sensitive to resolution or to color ?

Personally, I will find improved color gradation and highlight rolloff more noticeable. I can't say that for everyone...

18 hours ago, mkabi said:

The real question is 4K too much for m4/3?

https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/5258-top-end-cinema-cameras-it-s-all-becoming-clearer

After reading that article, I can deduce that Arri who is a leader in the industry didn't feel that true 4K on super35 was a good fit so they went LF....

Arri is definitely the king for image as far as I am concerned, however, we are talking the difference between a Toyota and a Ferrari.

If we can get 95% of the way there with the BM I'll be stoked.

This can actually work as a response to both of your posts:

If we get that amount of resolution with significantly improved dynamic range and color information I will be very pleased. If they really are using the same sensor I think our chances are good.

 

 

[SR]

Why do everyone keep saying the GH5S and BMPCC4K sensor is the same? They are literally different sizes. Did I miss something?

 

BMPCC4K: 18.96 mm x 10 mm
GH5/S: 17.3 x 13 mm

[cantsin]

30 minutes ago, SR said:

Why do everyone keep saying the GH5S and BMPCC4K sensor is the same? They are literally different sizes. Did I miss something?

 

BMPCC4K: 18.96 mm x 10 mm
GH5/S: 17.3 x 13 mm

Panasonics states the sensor size for the 4:3 aspect ratio. When shooting 16:9 or 17:9, the sensor is also 18.96mm wide. Blackmagic states the sensor size for 17:9, because its camera doesn't have a 4:3 mode.

The real size of the sensor is 18.96x13mm, but there seems no way of reading out this complete area in an open gate mode (probably because of limitations of the sensor electronics).

[Snuff]

GH5s sensor size: (19.2 x 13 mm) https://***URL removed***/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dc-gh5s-review/2

The BMPCC4K's sensor is physically larger than its effective size 18.96mm x 10mm.

[OniBaba]

8 hours ago, hansel said:

FACT!!! Having a hand-layed-carbon-fibre-textile-vac-bagged body would strech their (and our) budget slightly

Agree, I just wanted to point out that this is not what people think as the lightweight & superstrong "carbon fiber", but a"heavy"  traditional plastic (which is already used by camera manufacturers) reinforced with tiny carbon fibers....

[hansel]

I know, they like to make it sound snazzy.

[Axel]

On 13.4.2018 at 5:07 PM, Danyyyel said:

Take that fucking camera and comment at least what you are seeing. Take for example rolling shutter, I mean it is so easy to pan right left and have at leat an impression about rolling shutter, but until now zero.

Not the smartest people at such events. 

I wasn't aware that HLG - us poor men's HDR - was in the menu:

 

[hansel]

16 hours ago, IronFilm said:

That reminds me. I need a hair cut!

If you are lucky it might come earlier than September, but you look like a couple of cm here and there will not kill you

[webrunner5]

11 hours ago, amanieux said:

i have a newbie question : when we have a thin black line(less than 1 pixel width) on a white background like a telephone wire in the sky will raw 4:4:4 have double the resolution in x and double the resolution in y compared to h264 4:2:0 ? (for example i dont remember the old bmpcc in 1080p raw  having comparable resolution to 4k h264 4:2:0 :

 

).

Well I am not super qualified to answer your question but there will be in a sense No more resolution in Raw. It might look that way because it will be a bit sharper. It in essence is what the camera captured without Any processing at all. So there will be less jaggies because of less NR, processing, a LuT baked in etc., etc. It will be a pure signal that will have more Info, , more colors because it will be 12 bit, to be able to manipulate in post.  It as they say, will be a thicker frame. Virgin footage is a word that comes to mind. So just a cleaner output to edit with pretty much anyway you want to do it. It will make better looking footage If you can edit well.

On 4/13/2018 at 11:26 AM, webrunner5 said:

 

  

 

On 4/13/2018 at 12:11 PM, Emanuel said:

That Bob Caniglia from BMD about 1:25 minute also states 400 and 3200, so I know nothing for the subject matter :-)

Yeah Bob Canigila is the Director of Sales Operations in America. It is probably their biggest market. You would Think he knows the specs. But this does seems like a sort of rushed announcement, so I am sure some facts accidentally were misrepresented. It would be Nice if it was that low @ 400 ISO

This article I have not seen has the Blackmagic Cinema Camera Press Release in it. It does not state the what the dual ISO's are in  it though, just that it does have dual ISO's. Press release at the bottom of the article.

http://thenewcamera.com/blackmagic-cinema-camera-features-4k-hdr-and-dual-native-iso/

It would be kind of nice for someone from BM to post a video that does clear up a lot of misconceptions everyone has about the camera. Maybe some are not really finalized yet though?