Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[jonpais]

@Axel Not to mention storage. ?

[Axel]

34 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@Axel Not to mention storage. ?

For instance. But once you have bought this, it ceases to be an issue. Took five 64 GB cards with me to cover a wedding with the Pocket. Back then they cost 100 € each. Also took 5 batteries with me. Found out that they sufficed for one (35 min) card each, with pauses. Good rule of thumb, since neither the charge status nor the remaining space on the card was reliably shown on the display - if I remember correctly. Had the brides' brother running around with a Tascam and wore the Earworm microphones to capture audio (because the Pocket had very bad audio).

Now I remember how Lumix and Pocket are similar: it's fun to use them. They invite you to go and get the shot. The menus are good, the buttons are good. Once you got used to them, they are extremely reliable. 

[cantsin]

47 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Actually it does seem to suggest having AF (even if it's as bad as the one on the GH5 and GH5s),

 

BM cameras only have one-touch AF.

[Andrew Reid]

Not to knock it, but as soon as a future GH5 or X-H1 or A7S gets 4K raw internal, what reason would there be to buy the Pocket?

And what about all those times shooting a lot of stuff where you need small file sizes?

I also have a feeling people will miss things like 5 axis stabilisation and good AF.

For now however, it is going to rule. Interest in it is completely justified... Just don't expect it to last more than 1-2 years

[Axel]

25 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

For now however, it is going to rule. Interest in it is completely justified... Just don't expect it to last more than 1-2 years

Or months or weeks/days/hours. Was the same with the old Pocket. Buyers stared at the camera, very low frustration tolerance, didn't know how to start. Made all mistakes at once, exposed wrongly, didn't find the focus (difficult with this display and a relatively deep DoF), captured moire and IR pollution, had abysmal sound, had shaky footage. They tried hard, but then the battery was low - again. 

Given that this time there will be no supply-bottleneck, you could buy the BMPCC4k for 800 bucks on Ebay in December.

[jonpais]

After thinking about it, I do think it unfair to accuse Panasonic of ripping off customers if the only consideration is RAW. But I know I’m in the minority here. ?

[Logan]

24 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Not to knock it, but as soon as a future GH5 or X-H1 or A7S gets 4K raw internal, what reason would there be to buy the Pocket?

And what about all those times shooting a lot of stuff where you need small file sizes?

I also have a feeling people will miss things like 5 axis stabilisation and good AF.

For now however, it is going to rule. Interest in it is completely justified... Just don't expect it to last more than 1-2 years

I'm betting we won't see that for at least a few more years. If someone does it, I'm betting it will be Sony...they will also likely jack the price up on that camera significantly.

[jonpais]

7 minutes ago, Logan said:

I'm betting we won't see that for at least a few more years. If someone does it, I'm betting it will be Sony...they will also likely jack the price up on that camera significantly.

Not arguing, just asking - when Sony is still selling 8-bit 4:2:0 and Panasonic 10-bit 4:2:2, what is your justification for such a statement? All of Sony’s mirrorless are clearly aimed at hybrid shooters, while Panasonic has been more video orientated. Just curious.

[Logan]

4 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Not arguing, just asking - when Sony is still selling 8-bit 4:2:0 and Panasonic 10-bit 4:2:2, what is your justification for such a statement? All of Sony’s mirrorless are clearly aimed at hybrid shooters, while Panasonic has been more video orientated. Just curious.

Because Sony has been showing that they will push tech down quickly to gain marketshare. Panasonic is leading the way right now, but I'm guessing Sony will make the jump first to steal userbase. I hope I'm wrong and they all add it into their range, but we'll see. 

[jonpais]

14 minutes ago, Logan said:

Because Sony has been showing that they will push tech down quickly to gain marketshare. Panasonic is leading the way right now, but I'm guessing Sony will make the jump first to steal userbase. I hope I'm wrong and they all add it into their range, but we'll see. 

Not sure I get it, but thanks for the timely response. We’re talking about a codec here, not eye AF. And if all it took was a firmware update, I’ve heard Sony’s not the best at doing those.

[Axel]

The usability of the Sony mirrorless hybrids borders on bad intent. I hate to take my A6500 out of the bag. Everything about it already feels wrong. For video. It's a little better for stills.

A lot of that is personal preference of course. Ask vlogger Max Yuryev, and he explains why he prefers Sony over Panasonic.

RAW is a little overrated. If a camera has a good color science, a good codec and good profiles, that's enough. It's not the codec. So this to every GH5 owner, who is interested in the Pocket *just* because of RAW: forget it. 

I should have bought the GH5 (after happy years with GH2). I know that the BMPCC4k will bring a lot of problems, challenges. But also a lot of fun. You love it or you hate it.

 

[jonpais]

1 minute ago, Axel said:

The usability of the Sony mirrorless hybrids borders on bad intent. I hate to take my A6500 out of the bag. Everything about it already feels wrong. For video. It's a little better for stills.

A lot of that is personal preference of course. Ask vlogger Max Yuryev, and he explains why he prefers Sony over Panasonic.

RAW is a little overrated. If a camera has a good color science, a good codec and good profiles, that's enough. It's not the codec. So this to every GH5 owner, who is interested in the Pocket *just* because of RAW: forget it. 

I should have bought the GH5 (after happy years with GH2). I know that the BMPCC4k will bring a lot of problems, challenges. But also a lot of fun. You love it or you hate it.

 

Agree there. And no overprocessing. ? I’ve already watched several videos where they’ve been able to match Panasonic’s colors to those of BMD.

[Logan]

17 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Not sure I get it, but thanks for the timely response. We’re talking about a codec here, not eye AF. And if all it took was a firmware update, I’ve heard Sony’s not the best at doing those.

Go look at the a73 vs the competition. Price and features it really is aiming for the kill. I'm not focusing on video features, but tech in general.

6 minutes ago, Axel said:

The usability of the Sony mirrorless hybrids borders on bad intent. I hate to take my A6500 out of the bag. Everything about it already feels wrong. For video. It's a little better for stills.

 

Fully agreed here. Everytime I touch my friends a7r2 I get angry. Sony ergonomics are such garbage.

[jonpais]

2 minutes ago, Logan said:

Go look at the a73 vs the competition. Price and features it really is aiming for the kill. I'm not focusing on video features, but tech in general.

Aside from AF, would you care to explain how the a7 III is more technologically advanced than Panasonic?  Sorry to keep pestering you.

[Logan]

2 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Aside from AF, would you care to explain how the a7 III is more technologically advanced than Panasonic?  Sorry to keep pestering you.

No problem, as I said I'm not focused on video with my comments, more the overall tech.

The a7 shoots 10 (full frame) fps, has 693 phase detect points, eye af etc etc. They are going for the throat of Nikon and Canon with that camera. I'm saying that they WILL go for Panasonic.

[SR]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Not to knock it, but as soon as a future GH5 or X-H1 or A7S gets 4K raw internal, what reason would there be to buy the Pocket?

Well, that's still ten years away. But color science and price are factors.

[jonpais]

5 minutes ago, SR said:

Well, that's still ten years away. But color science and price are factors.

That's a bold statement. I can see Panasonic doing RAW internal much sooner than that. But I'm just talking out of my derriere right now.  

[SR]

4 minutes ago, jonpais said:

That's a bold statement. I can see Panasonic doing RAW internal much sooner than that. But I'm just talking out of my derriere right now.  

It'd be a win-win, if they did. But they didn't react to the earlier Blackmagic cameras, I doubt they will with this one either. 

[Rick]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Not to knock it, but as soon as a future GH5 or X-H1 or A7S gets 4K raw internal, what reason would there be to buy the Pocket?

And what about all those times shooting a lot of stuff where you need small file sizes?

I also have a feeling people will miss things like 5 axis stabilisation and good AF.

For now however, it is going to rule. Interest in it is completely justified... Just don't expect it to last more than 1-2 years

I dont think its that easy. Its a matter of taste. If you like BMs color science the camera is a big deal for you. If you dont like it, you dont have to buy it. But my BMPCC has SO MUCH MORE skin texture at proresHQ than i have seen in my a7s II, or a6500, or in any DSLR/M footage that iam pretty sold to BM when it comes to "aliveness" of skin. Maybe i could achieve a similar result with proper post-production but thats time. And time is money. BM does also try do achieve a pleasing grain instead of digital looking noise. I guess thats why they call their cameras "cinema".

For small file sized just shoot prores proxy, or prores lt in full sensor FHD. Just bake in you own lut and you may not even have to "grade" in post.

5 axis is cool, but there are also good IS lenses out there for run&gun work. Wide lenses can be handheld even without IBIS. AF is a thing for some but iam glad that they did not put their ressources into improving that at the first point. Personally i like MF. Just feels more handheld to me and sometimes, selfmade, organic focusshifts can also look more natural or interesting than AF failure. Which will happen.

In the end its all personal taste. For me, i can tell, i was so eagerly waiting to get the look and feel of my BMPCC footage back but since i do a lot of run and gun i am in the need of a more full-framish look, slow motion and low light capabilites. My clients do love the look, its way more obvious to them than colors. Most of my stuff is produced for social media, so it also suffers from bad compression rates in the end. Meanwhile the sony footage always looked dead and flat to me. I learned to deal with it to some amount others would call "no difference" but i see it, so yes, its just about me.

But i also cant listen to mp3s anymore because they do lack so much of dynamic and they sound compressed compared to CD quality recordings. When i show it to others, some notice the difference immediately and others are like "huh, sounds the same". I guess last ones are also happy with DSLR/M footage ;-)

[mercer]

1 hour ago, Logan said:

I'm betting we won't see that for at least a few more years. If someone does it, I'm betting it will be Sony...they will also likely jack the price up on that camera significantly.

I’ll probably get shunned for this, but I think Canon will be the first to do it. I believe they’re the only major that has an in camera Raw recording. So I think a future XC20, or 5D5 or 7D3 may have, at least, 1080p RawLite.

I doubt the P2 is really on their radar except for the competition the C200 is getting from the Ursa Pro. Now the Ursa Pro has a B-Cam with the P2.

Obviously, this will probably never happen, but I never thought Canon would release any camera that shot Raw, so who knows.