cantsin Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 A buggy mess? The old Pocket? Sorry, that can't be. I had the canera since it came out. The software/firmware of the camera has always been rock-solid, with a simple and clean user interface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Mason Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 13 hours ago, Axel said: I noticed that. Without being an expert, could this have to do with what in Sonys custom PP setting is influenced by "knee" (the point where the gamma curve starts to "fade out") and "slope" (the steepness of he curve from there)? Something that's baked in. As it is now in ProRes. They could address it with a new "PP". But see below. I've never - anywhere - seen compressed video that has so little noise even in completely underexposed parts. The NAB pre-production model that the brave thief used to record the 4 minute clip on was set to ISO 800 ("variable framerate"?): File size : 11.2 GiB Duration : 4 min 9 s Overall bit rate : 384 Mb/s com.blackmagic-design.camera.uuid : fdee50bc-5896-477b-be85-b1a07a8382c5 com.blackmagic-design.camera.projectFPS : 24 com.apple.proapps.shootingRate : 50 com.blackmagic-design.camera.cameraType : Blackmagic URSA Pocket com.blackmagic-design.camera.shutterAngl : 190° com.blackmagic-design.camera.iso : 800 com.blackmagic-design.camera.whiteBalanc : 5450 com.blackmagic-design.camera.whiteBalanc : -20 com.apple.proapps.customgamma : com.blackmagic-design.camera.filmlog com.blackmagic-design.camera.look.LUTNam : Blackmagic 4K Film to Video.cube com.blackmagic-design.camera.guides.aspe : 2.35:1 com.blackmagic-design.camera.guides.safe : 45 com.blackmagic-design.camera.firmware : 5.5 (...) com.blackmagic-design.camera.colorScienc : Blackmagic URSA Pocket, Color Science Gen 4 (...) Format profile : 422 HQ Codec ID : apch Duration : 4 min 9 s Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 369 Mb/s Width : 3 840 pixels Height : 2 160 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Variable Frame rate : 12.507 FPS Minimum frame rate : 3.429 FPS Maximum frame rate : 24.000 FPS Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2 Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.554 Stream size : 10.7 GiB (96%) Writing library : bmd0 Language : English Encoded date : UTC 2018-04-12 01:43:44 Tagged date : UTC 2018-04-12 01:43:44 Color primaries : BT.709 Transfer characteristics : BT.709 Matrix coefficients : BT.709 matrix_coefficients_Original : BT.709 I think I vaguely remember that the upper native ISO was 3200 (where clean shadows and some harshly blown out highlights would be expected, if the A7s' native ISO of 3200 is anything to go by). What was the lower native ISO? 800? Please also note that on the official Blackmagic site, they list 4k 60p as ... An error? You are in an entirely separate universe. The, er, native virtues of BM cameras have nothing to do with intelligent AF or things like that. That's why all BM cameras, no matter how cumbersome they are in terms of usage (ever lifted the classic URSA?), remain classics. If you are tuned into the BM user mindset, you witness parallel efforts of Son, Pan, Can with serenity. So they found another smart gimmick to free you from the burden of having to do something manually? Damn amazing indeed! Based on current info, the dual ISO on P4K is native at 400 and 3200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Maze Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 On 4/10/2018 at 6:54 AM, Sage said: That's true.. this is BMD after all For many years, I asked that they make this exact camera (though never imagined they'd pull off 120) Wonder what the olpf situation will be I talked to a rep about the olpf at NAB and they said that they tend to not put filters on their cameras and if they do its always minor because they are obsessed with image quality. Kind of a shame in terms of IR pollution. I remember having to put my Hoya IR cut filter on every freaking lens I owned because the original pocket had such bad IR pollution. I think this cam will have the same issue. Geoff CB and Sage 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hijodeibn Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 15 hours ago, Axel said: You are in an entirely separate universe. The, er, native virtues of BM cameras have nothing to do with intelligent AF or things like that. That's why all BM cameras, no matter how cumbersome they are in terms of usage (ever lifted the classic URSA?), remain classics. If you are tuned into the BM user mindset, you witness parallel efforts of Son, Pan, Can with serenity. So they found another smart gimmick to free you from the burden of having to do something manually? Damn amazing indeed! Well, probably I am in another universe, since I learned to shoot with an eClair NPR, and YES, it was film, did you ever hear about it?, and everything was manual, later I got an Super 16 eClair ACL II, a 35mm Konvas-1M and a 35mm Konvas-2M, and I had a lot of fun, YES, the three shoot film, did you ever hear about that little boy?, when you were playing with your little cars in the living room of your daddy I was shooting with these babes, and all was manual, measuring the light, installing those huge light alone and hacking the breaker to get enough energy for the lights, little babies of today with their digital cameras really don't know a crap what was really to shoot in the old days with very limited budget.....did you ever lifted an eClair NPR? or a eClair ACL? or a 35mm camera ever?, URSA?, thats a joke, the only camera similar in weight to my old babes was the Red One, the rest, not even close....and I have a R1 too, and YES, it is all manual!!!!!!......I just used the Konvas two month ago to shoot some interior scenes, still a solid camera.....URSA?, sorry, not even close......so, are you going to teach me how to do things manually?......hahaha, come back little boy to play with your little cards....you really don't know what was to shoot with film, to do the load of the magazines every 12 minutes for 16mm and 4:30 minutes for 35mm, if I want DPAF is because of I needed for some projects, I have a R1 to shoot whatever else.....and YES, I have been shooting manually all these years.....sorry....nothing to learn from you... Nikkor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 16 hours ago, Axel said: If you are tuned into the BM user mindset, you witness parallel efforts of Son, Pan, Can with serenity. So they found another smart gimmick to free you from the burden of having to do something manually? Damn amazing indeed! Having total control is a very different experience indeed and a very pleasurable as well, but there are times that I appreciate technology (like AF or smooth AE with ISO) which actually allows me to enjoy the moment instead of focusing all my effort into getting the shot. I am pretty sure many would have an issue with the old hand crank, even though at times it would be fun to use . But I agree with you there are going to be plenty of pocket returns because of its "incoveniences". The remaining bunch are going to be pretty happy though. @hijodeibn Chill. 2 hours ago, DaveAltizer said: I talked to a rep about the olpf at NAB and they said that they tend to not put filters on their cameras and if they do its always minor because they are obsessed with image quality. Kind of a shame in terms of IR pollution. I remember having to put my Hoya IR cut filter on every freaking lens I owned because the original pocket had such bad IR pollution. I think this cam will have the same issue. I am wondering about the relationship between color and IR filter and whether their claim is correct. I can imaging wavelengths close to IR can help with warming up the shadows and improving the skin tonalities. In your experience did you have a problem when not using an ND filter? Here is a comparison of the URSA: http://www.thehurlblog.com/what-is-ir-pollution-and-how-do-you-combat-it-tiffen/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Don Kotlos said: Having total control is a very different experience indeed and a very pleasurable as well, but there are times that I appreciate technology (like AF or smooth AE with ISO) which actually allows me to enjoy the moment instead of focusing all my effort into getting the shot. I am pretty sure many would have an issue with the old hand crank, even though at times it would be fun to use . But I agree with you there are going to be plenty of pocket returns because of its "incoveniences". The remaining bunch are going to be pretty happy though. Don, I think News/ENG camera ops are the real ones living in their own universe still. Zooming, focusing, riding the iris without thinking twice about it. Just experience and muscle memory for these people. Heavy rigged cameras, beefy sticks and head etc, and they do it solo, day in day out. Attached a photo of an old timer in OZ shooting digital for the first time in his life, no drama to get around a problem. Don Kotlos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted April 22, 2018 Administrators Share Posted April 22, 2018 Most viewed thread in 2 weeks ever on EOSHD about a camera launch https://www.eoshd.com/2018/04/blackmagic-pocket-4k-watched-camera-launch-ever-eoshd/ Blackmagic are onto something. Begs the question why doesn't GH5S have raw, ProRes and baked-in LUT support? It should have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Most viewed thread in 2 weeks ever on EOSHD about a camera launch https://www.eoshd.com/2018/04/blackmagic-pocket-4k-watched-camera-launch-ever-eoshd/ Blackmagic are onto something. Begs the question why doesn't GH5S have raw, ProRes and baked-in LUT support? It should have done. It begs the question why everything related to this camera must be discussed in this thread. When a thread is 82 pages long it makes sifting through the post time consuming. Proof in point, I asked Panasonic about this very question. And reported the answer here. Sub-topics are ok. salim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmizer Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 27 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Most viewed thread in 2 weeks ever on EOSHD about a camera launch https://www.eoshd.com/2018/04/blackmagic-pocket-4k-watched-camera-launch-ever-eoshd/ I would wait for when the camera comes out to evaluate !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyojerry Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 This is on my acquisition list. I hope Panasonic is watching. This is going to give both Panasonic and Sony a run for their money. I notice however there is very little information related to it's image shooting capabilities. Just like Panasonic's GH5, although the focus is on video it still is very much an image camera. To what extent can we regard the 4K Pocket Cinema Camera as a capable camera with controls, to take images. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 The GH5 is the true Pocket camera. Without any rigging at all, I can shoot handheld without a gimbal, tap to focus, battery lasts for hours, I can custom white balance, record simultaneously to two SD cards, delete and format cards in camera, and import footage and export with virtually no grading. Sure, it might not be a cinema camera, but it is one heck of a video camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaconda_ Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, tokyojerry said: I notice however there is very little information related to it's image shooting capabilities. It's my understanding that the stills button basically saves a frame from the video. So it has the same resolution as the format you're set to record in. Likewise, if you're filming in raw, you'll get a raw image. If you're set to film in prores, the camera will save a jpeg frame. I think it's more for generating thumbnails or testing lighting setups than for taking photos on holiday for exmple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, jonpais said: The GH5 is the true Pocket camera. Without any rigging at all, I can shoot handheld without a gimbal, tap to focus, battery lasts for hours, I can custom white balance, record simultaneously to two SD cards, delete and format cards in camera, and import footage and export with virtually no grading. Sure, it might not be a cinema camera, but it is one heck of a video camera. I like and agree with these important points but without a gimbal you cannot move with the camera. This may not be something you want to do, but purposive camera movement is an important dimension of video. IBIS is not a complete substitute for a gimbal, and the GH5 (not really pocketable) is really too large for extensive gimbal use. Of course, this new BM camera is no better in this regard, and handheld use is even more limited. Kisaha and jonpais 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 36 minutes ago, jonpais said: The GH5 is the true Pocket camera. Without any rigging at all, I can shoot handheld without a gimbal, tap to focus, battery lasts for hours, I can custom white balance, record simultaneously to two SD cards, delete and format cards in camera, and import footage and export with virtually no grading. Sure, it might not be a cinema camera, but it is one heck of a video camera. How do you fit a GH5 in your pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Stanley said: How do you fit a GH5 in your pocket. Like so: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: Most viewed thread in 2 weeks ever on EOSHD about a camera launch https://www.eoshd.com/2018/04/blackmagic-pocket-4k-watched-camera-launch-ever-eoshd/ Blackmagic are onto something. Begs the question why doesn't GH5S have raw, ProRes and baked-in LUT support? It should have done. For the simple reason that they have to protect their higher end camera offerings. That is also why Both the BMPCC 4k and the GH5s Do Not have 4k at 120fps (despite the sensor being capable of it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, Stanley said: How do you fit a GH5 in your pocket. You just need the right sized pocket... TwoScoops 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 45 minutes ago, jonpais said: The GH5 is the true Pocket camera. Without any rigging at all, I can shoot handheld without a gimbal, tap to focus, battery lasts for hours, I can custom white balance, record simultaneously to two SD cards, delete and format cards in camera, and import footage and export with virtually no grading. Sure, it might not be a cinema camera, but it is one heck of a video camera. I agree, GH5 is one hell of a hybrid camera. jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 I’m looking at something like this for the P2. It should fit comfortably right next to my beer... jonpais and sudopera 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Most yanks have a gut bigger enough or a mouth to go with it after all it was Anzacs that showed you how to tool up on the Western Front ...ROFL jonpais, webrunner5 and Gordon Zernich 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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