Sony FS5 II announced with 4K 120fps RAW recording at NAB 2018

[Trek of Joy]

8 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

Nearly every time a camera comes out you see compromises due to heat problems - say the Fuji XH-1. Its quite possible that the FS5ii is crippled to protect the FS7. 

But I actually think the heat issues mean we are a 'long way' from seeing 10 bit internal or 4k 60 in an A7siii body with stabilization. I just think with current technology the sensor is too large and the body too small. I am not even sure Sony can bring this to APSC.

Agreed. Don't think we'll see 10-bit or 60p in the a7s3 - if Sony even decides to keep the a7s line alive. I can see them just doing new body/battery with the same old sensor - much like the a7r3. But anyone expecting a FF GH5 is going to be really disappointed. There's always the Z-cam E2....

[OliKMIA]

$4,749.99, seems weird...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1400752-REG/sony_pxw_fs5m2_4k_xdcam_super.html

[tellure]

Hopes destroyed for 4k60, 10bit, or higher bitrate on A7S3...

[Django]

2 hours ago, OliKMIA said:

$4,749.99, seems weird...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1400752-REG/sony_pxw_fs5m2_4k_xdcam_super.html

not really.. FS5 mk1 with free raw upgrade is the same exact price:

 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1185424-REG/sony_pxw_fs5_xdcam_super_35.html

further proof mk2 is really just a re-badged FS5.. this has got to be the laziest follow-up move ever!

and yes this doesn't bode well at all for A7S3 prospects..

[Kisaha]

3 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

Nearly every time a camera comes out you see compromises due to heat problems - say the Fuji XH-1. Its quite possible that the FS5ii is crippled to protect the FS7. 

But I actually think the heat issues mean we are a 'long way' from seeing 10 bit internal or 4k 60 in an A7siii body with stabilization. I just think with current technology the sensor is too large and the body too small. I am not even sure Sony can bring this to APSC.

Heat is the main issue, for sure, that is why GH5 is full frame dSLR size and weight, but it works, and quite well and reliably so far, what's the excuse for a much bigger and heavier form factor though (FS5)?

NX1 is a 2014 camera and doesn't overheat recording 78min continous video (with higher H265 bitrate), and to a degree, a much smaller NX500 hasn't overheat to me even when recording events (in very very hot environments of south-east Mediterranean and Crete).

Sony have to up their game in 2018, this FS5 release (which is a form factor I am really interest to) gives time to Canon to bring a really worthy competitor with a new C100, and JVC/BM/Panasonic to cut into the entry level cinema/broadcasting category.

Maybe Sony sensors has plateaued somehow, that is not amazing stuff from the industry leading sensor manufacturer, and the market is too important for other players to stay idle and just look the Sony domination.

[Oliver Daniel]

I owned the original FS5 with the Shogun Inferno - sold it because the setup was not fun in terms of ergonomics, plus I found there to be barely any difference between the internal XAVC files and the Raw>ProRes. (4k slo mo was great though!)

@Andrew Reid, the FS700 also had 4k 120fps raw recording. The only "new" thing going on here is improved colour (which, btw, is very positive). 

Overall, this is basically an original FS5 with the paid licenses. They could of at least put in 4k 10 bit. 

[kaylee]

color looks a LOT better than the recent past

 

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, Django said:

and yes this doesn't bode well at all for A7S3 prospects..

Yeah if the FS5mk2 doesn't get 4K 10bit then I rate at near 0% chance that an a7Smk3 released this year will have 10bit internal. 

[froess]

Skintones are now magenta and not green. Great..!

[thefactory]

24 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Yeah if the FS5mk2 doesn't get 4K 10bit then I rate at near 0% chance that an a7Smk3 released this year will have 10bit internal. 

The only thing that makes me think that maybe the a7siii might have somthing good up it’s sleve, is the length of time it’s taking to hit the market. We were expecting it at last NAB in response to the gh5.  Hopefully, the longer it takes the better it will be. 

The fs5 strategy is a bit weird. It would be interesting to know if any hardware has changed at all. Maybe this is Sony’s way of getting out of firmware updates. Just release a new model. It’s seems to work with the consumer line so maybe the pro line are following suit. 

Im still waiting for PP on the a9. Dont think it’s going to happen. 

I wish Sony were more open with there users. Like the a9. If you never plan to put PP on the camera, just come out and say it. 

 

[spinkscapes]

10 hours ago, Yurolov said:

I actually commend Sony for this. Their color science in the original fs5 was beyond terrible. The skin tones in this video, however, look fantastic. I know it is early yet but the skin tones appear to be superior to the EVA1 and the c200 and I am a Canon apologist. 

Weird, after watching the video I decided that the skin tones were way too unnatural and unflattering to me.

[Django]

39 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Yeah if the FS5mk2 doesn't get 4K 10bit then I rate at near 0% chance that an a7Smk3 released this year will have 10bit internal. 

agreed, but it's a real mystery then what they are going to be able to do to justify the expected $3500 price tag. especially with the $2000 A73 being so capable in low-light, stills & AF. maybe they'll just add this new "venice" profile, slap on a BSI sensor with the latest AF enhancements and price it at the current A7S2 cut-down retail which is $2400 (which is basically what they've done with FS5 II). seems like Sony's current strategy is to be agressive on price points to undercut competition rather than really pushing forward innovation...

[Mokara]

11 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Sony have just announced the FS5 II ahead of NAB 2018.

This brings with it a raft of improvements, including revamped colour profiles tuned similarly to the high-end VENICE digital cinema camera.

As well as HDR and Rec.2020 4K modes, it's also capable of DCI 4K (4096 x 2160) RAW to an external recorder, at up to an astonishing 120fps, although this frame rate is limited to 4 seconds of slow-motion capture. 4K 60p meanwhile is continuous externally, and internally the camera records 4K up to 30p.

Read the full article

Are the specs on that page you linked correct? According to those the max frame rate for 4K is 30 fps, they don't say anything about higher frame rates (in the specs).

[Mokara]

6 minutes ago, Django said:

agreed, but it's a real mystery then what they are going to be able to do to justify the expected $3500 price tag. especially with the $2000 A73 being so capable in low-light, stills & AF. maybe they'll just add this new "venice" profile, slap on a BSI sensor with the latest AF enhancements and price it at the current A7S2 cut-down retail which is $2400 (which is basically what they've done with FS5 II). seems like Sony's current strategy is to be agressive on price points to undercut competition rather than really pushing forward innovation...

 

55 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Yeah if the FS5mk2 doesn't get 4K 10bit then I rate at near 0% chance that an a7Smk3 released this year will have 10bit internal. 

It depends. Recent camera releases have had their LSI chip updated, and sometimes an updated sensor depending on hold old the earlier sensor was. The first cameras with the latest LSI was the RX100 (and one of the RX10 models IIRC), so it is not necessarily the most expensive lines that get updates first. It all depends on the development cycle and how many cameras of a particular model they sell. The main upgrade in the FS5 II might be the LSI, which means greatly improved AF functionality.

At some point they are going to be releasing the next generation processor, and that is when we can expect to see performance increases. Maybe the first camera that sees it will be the a7S III or it could even be something with a shorter development cycle, such as the RX100.

A7S III can be expected to include a new sensor as well as the latest LSI. If the next processor is available in time it may well have to.

[Kisaha]

28 minutes ago, Mokara said:

 

It depends. Recent camera releases have had their LSI chip updated, and sometimes an updated sensor depending on hold old the earlier sensor was. The first cameras with the latest LSI was the RX100 (and one of the RX10 models IIRC), so it is not necessarily the most expensive lines that get updates first. It all depends on the development cycle and how many cameras of a particular model they sell. The main upgrade in the FS5 II might be the LSI, which means greatly improved AF functionality.

At some point they are going to be releasing the next generation processor, and that is when we can expect to see performance increases. Maybe the first camera that sees it will be the a7S III or it could even be something with a shorter development cycle, such as the RX100.

A7S III can be expected to include a new sensor as well as the latest LSI. If the next processor is available in time it may well have to.

All of those are irrelevant when you release a mkII version of your entry level cine/broadcast camera, that people expect at least a 2 year self-life-cycle (to take you easily to 2020-2022), that will cost eventually 40% higher (in European prices) with a bigger and heavier body, and you do not deliver.

If they are going to offer a much better A7S iii for 3700euros (that is the expected European price) then, excellent. But how realistic this is, after this release?

Or, is this a a6300 case? Friends and colleagues bought it for 1499euros, for loosing half its price a couple of months later (a friend had it exactly 90 days, and then the a6500 released).

Is there a FS5mkIII imminent for Olympic year? 

This is a mixed release with a so so sensor from the #1 sensor manufacturer..

My impression is that they just added value to Panasonic (Eva/GH5S) and BMUMP cameras, and whatever else comes this year.

[IronFilm]

 

https://youtu.be/2M7CgEVgojM?t=1838

^ direct link to the FS5mk2 announcement

[kaylee]

2 hours ago, froess said:

Skintones are now magenta and not green. Great..!

yes. now theyre too magenta ?

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, Django said:

seems like Sony's current strategy is to be agressive on price points to undercut competition rather than really pushing forward innovation...

Well Sony has been pushing specs hard for a long while, maybe not a bad thing if they ease up and instead push down on prices and focus on ergonomics/colors. 

[johnnyd]

27 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

 

https://youtu.be/2M7CgEVgojM?t=1838

^ direct link to the FS5mk2 announcement

Funny how it took them 30 seconds to announce the ¨new¨ camera and go through the features. Kinda disappointing, although good that they are pushing for better colours.

Why couldn't they just add the new colour science via a firmware upgrade to the old model or am I missing something else here?

[Robert Collins]

3 hours ago, Django said:

agreed, but it's a real mystery then what they are going to be able to do to justify the expected $3500 price tag. especially with the $2000 A73 being so capable in low-light, stills & AF. maybe they'll just add this new "venice" profile, slap on a BSI sensor with the latest AF enhancements and price it at the current A7S2 cut-down retail which is $2400 (which is basically what they've done with FS5 II). seems like Sony's current strategy is to be agressive on price points to undercut competition rather than really pushing forward innovation...

Well the latest rumor is that they are going to put a 'stacked' sensor similar to the A9 with a blazing fast sensor readout (A9 is 1/160th for stills). This would all but eradicate rolling shutter. That tech is very expensive though and would easily make the camera US$3500.