Sony FS5 II announced with 4K 120fps RAW recording at NAB 2018

[mkabi]

1 hour ago, johnnyd said:

Why couldn't they just add the new colour science via a firmware upgrade to the old model or am I missing something else here?

Unless it costs $4750 for a firmware update.... 

[Don Kotlos]

1 hour ago, johnnyd said:

Why couldn't they just add the new colour science via a firmware upgrade to the old model or am I missing something else here?

Not missing anything, your assumption is correct. 

I will admit that this is the strangest new camera release that I have ever seen. Even Canon would not pull something like this. 

The PXW-Z280 on the other hand is the most interesting having 3 EXMOR-R sensors and records 4K 60p 10-bit and XAVC-I. But at $7K it is by far the most expensive "handycam" that I know about. 

[johnnyd]

11 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

Not missing anything, your assumption is correct. 

I will admit that this is the strangest new camera release that I have ever seen. Even Canon would not pull something like this. 

Strange indeed. I don't really see a point to upgrade to this if you own the mk1, but then again if you are going to upgrade from an fs5 you're probably going to move up to an fs7 or something similar.

[Kisaha]

21 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

Not missing anything, your assumption is correct. 

I will admit that this is the strangest new camera release that I have ever seen. Even Canon would not pull something like this. 

The PXW-Z280 on the other hand is the most interesting having 3 EXMOR-R sensors and records 4K 60p 10-bit and XAVC-I. But at $7K it is by far the most expensive "handycam" that I know about. 

So true!

That camcorder reminds me (and the pricing is exactly the same) the legendary EX cameras that I spend so much time with them in my youth, but that was almost a century ago!

[Don Kotlos]

Here is an interview where Sony admits that there were no sensor/electronic changes in FSII. Only a firmware update. Still the FS5I will remain in the market and the FS5II will be the "big brother". 

Does anyone remember another company releasing a firmware update as a "new camera" ? 

I think it would have been much better if they announced yet another payed firmware update with the improved "color-science" or upped the price to $7K but include 10bit/4K 60p. 

 

[Kisaha]

Nothing to see here gentlemen, move along to the Black Magic thread right now!

[Mokara]

7 hours ago, Kisaha said:

All of those are irrelevant when you release a mkII version of your entry level cine/broadcast camera, that people expect at least a 2 year self-life-cycle (to take you easily to 2020-2022), that will cost eventually 40% higher (in European prices) with a bigger and heavier body, and you do not deliver.

If they are going to offer a much better A7S iii for 3700euros (that is the expected European price) then, excellent. But how realistic this is, after this release?

Or, is this a a6300 case? Friends and colleagues bought it for 1499euros, for loosing half its price a couple of months later (a friend had it exactly 90 days, and then the a6500 released).

Is there a FS5mkIII imminent for Olympic year? 

This is a mixed release with a so so sensor from the #1 sensor manufacturer..

My impression is that they just added value to Panasonic (Eva/GH5S) and BMUMP cameras, and whatever else comes this year.

Why not? Canon have done that in the past as well, with incremental upgrades that sometimes get out of step. The G20 followed by the G30 about three months later springs to mind. If you bought a G20 when it was released you likely would have been less than happy about that.

When these sorts of things happen very often it is due to a specific upgrade being delayed for some reason, but in order to remain competitive something else has to be released in the interim. Then, changes on the competitive landscape necessitate the release of the next product much sooner than otherwise would happen.

Sony bodies remain essentially the same, the main upgrade in any cycle is usually  one of the sensor, processor or LSI, sometimes more if there has been a particularly long gap between updates. They may be holding off on the processor upgrades until the FS7, with the FS5 targeted at the sort of market something like the C100 occupies, for instance. For that market the specs are likely fine, the biggest drawback of the FS5 I would have been AF performance versus the C100M2, and the FS5 II is probably an attempt to address that deficiency. If the C100M3 comes out with higher specs, such as internal 4K60p, then you would probably see an FS5 III sooner rather than later, but otherwise it will show up in about 2-3 years from now. For higher performance applications you would need to get the next gen FS7, or (potentially) an a7S III for less formal production applications.

[Dunjoye]

I always liked the form factor of this cam.But this upgrade is disappointing. If the improvement incolor is similar to the F3/F5cinema range, then fair play. Otherwise people are better of picking up a bargain used the FS51. I have seen them as low as £2500

[Kisaha]

23 minutes ago, Mokara said:

Why not? Canon have done that in the past as well, with incremental upgrades that sometimes get out of step. The G20 followed by the G30 about three months later springs to mind. If you bought a G20 when it was released you likely would have been less than happy about that.

When these sorts of things happen very often it is due to a specific upgrade being delayed for some reason, but in order to remain competitive something else has to be released in the interim. Then, changes on the competitive landscape necessitate the release of the next product much sooner than otherwise would happen.

Sony bodies remain essentially the same, the main upgrade in any cycle is usually  one of the sensor, processor or LSI, sometimes more if there has been a particularly long gap between updates. They may be holding off on the processor upgrades until the FS7, with the FS5 targeted at the sort of market something like the C100 occupies, for instance. For that market the specs are likely fine, the biggest drawback of the FS5 I would have been AF performance versus the C100M2, and the FS5 II is probably an attempt to address that deficiency. If the C100M3 comes out with higher specs, such as internal 4K60p, then you would probably see an FS5 III sooner rather than later, but otherwise it will show up in about 2-3 years from now. For higher performance applications you would need to get the next gen FS7, or (potentially) an a7S III for less formal production applications.

My previous post was the WHY part, in plain non-native-language English:

1) 40% higher price

2) bigger and heavier body (for more efficient heat dissipation) and still didn't deliver the goods, how do you expect more, from a much cheaper camera, with a lot smaller body and a lot bigger sensor?

By the way, no one said anything about the AF, everyone in forums and articles say that is the same as the FS5, so I do not know what are your sources.

On a category with hot fresh cameras (C100 is a 2012 camera, and cost much less than the FS5ii, and there is a III imminent for release, but all the rest?) and still a couple of players that haven't opened their papers yet, this is a DOA.

and I finished with

"This is a mixed release with a so so sensor from the #1 sensor manufacturer..

My impression is that they just added value to Panasonic (Eva/GH5S) and BMUMP cameras, and whatever else comes this year."

and that is before the 4K pocket release, a few hours later than my previous comment it is even worst for the FS5mkII. 

and that is why.

[markr041]

1 hour ago, Dunjoye said:

I always liked the form factor of this cam.But this upgrade is disappointing. If the improvement incolor is similar to the F3/F5cinema range, then fair play. Otherwise people are better of picking up a bargain used the FS51. I have seen them as low as £2500

If the used camera does not have the paid RAW firmware upgrade ($500) or the paid 120P HD (internal) firmware upgrade ($500) then it is not equal, not even close, to the new model. The external RAW capability is what makes the FS5 (along with the variable ND) still state of the art - 60P and120P 4K DCI, 4K DCI RAW, 2K 240P RAW and also in ProRes RAW!

As a current FS5 owner (who got the RAW upgrade free), I am almost (almost) happy I do not have to buy a new camera for now. It would have taken IBIS, PDAF  and internal 422 10bit 4K at 60P. But

[markr041]

It's still true that almost no cameras < $5,000 but the FS5 and FS700 can shoot high-quality slow motion from RAW - here is 240 FPS slow motion in 2K:

or 4K 120 FPS:

This is just trying to make a really bad Spring more bearable.

[Django]

true.. but you do need a shogun inferno for that bringing the price closer to +$6K

 

[markr041]

19 minutes ago, Django said:

true.. but you do need a shogun inferno for that bringing the price closer to +$6K

 

I agree, but if you have more than one camera you can use the Inferno on the other cameras too, taking advantage of its HDR capabilities or brightness or focus or exposure scopes. So the cost is spread. And it seems like it will be a useful tool for future camera replacements.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Django said:

true.. but you do need a shogun inferno for that bringing the price closer to +$6K

 

Much much much less if you're buying a FS700 secondhand for US$2K ish ish

[markr041]

14 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Much much much less if you're buying a FS700 secondhand for US$2K ish ish

Just make sure it is a FS700R. That camera is still a great bargain, and state of the art in some dimensions, as noted above.

[IronFilm]

I think you can still pay to enable 4K on the original FS700 as well if a person ends up buying that instead

[webrunner5]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Much much much less if you're buying a FS700 secondhand for US$2K ish ish

That camera has the ugliest Color Science ever made LoL. Yikes, not counting form factor is a ugly looking bastard. I can see why it is cheap! Your F3 is a thing of beauty both ways compared to that. If it wasn't for killer slow mo in them I doubt Sony would have sold 30 of them on Color Output.

[IronFilm]

[markr041]

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

You could sell the upgrade kit - a pen, with ink included!

[Kisaha]

26 minutes ago, markr041 said:

You could sell the upgrade kit - a pen, with ink included!

No! Keep the ink for a paid (a la Sony) mid cycle upgrade, or give it for free (a la Fuji) and everyone will be happy!