BIG NEWS - Hands on with CONTINUOUS raw recording on Canon 5D Mark III

[Andrew Reid]

I for one will be waiting in the wings with my trusty GH2 until the dust settles. This RAW camera turmoil isn't over by a long shot. I personally doubt it will seriously hurt Blackmagic in its current form. The truth is, the Blackmagic cameras and Canon cameras are completely different animals in more ways than just the codec. Add on top of that the fact that the Blackmagic cameras are purpose-built for RAW right out of the box, and it really is hard to say they'll take a hit from this. If faster CF cards come out and MagicLantern can really get this nailed down and reliable, then maybe. But even then, it is a modification-type solution, not a purpose-built RAW camera.

 

Until then, I'm going with the GH2. It was and still is very inexpensive, yet perfectly capable in the right hands, as many of these cameras are. But I've become increasingly aware of other features besides RAW that are almost more beneficial, like built-in ND, XLR or similar pro audio inputs, Zebra, Peaking, and alternative aspect ratios (for anamorphic). Such things seem basic because they've been around for a while, but their benefit is not lessened by that.

 

Turmoil! Disaster! Drama! Raw for free.

 

What a hardship. Better image quality than a $15,000 camera on your $3000 DSLR and the first ever full frame camera to record uncompressed raw internally to compact flash card.

 

FOR FREE.

 

I don't call that turmoil I call it a miracle.

 

You're trying to justify a preconceived purchasing decisions I'm afraid. The Blackmagic cameras whole selling point - ONLY selling point - was the image and raw workflow. Nobody bought a Blackmagic for the smaller sensor, heavy body, poor ergonomics and slipped delivery dates. We held out for the image. Now we have it in a DSLR, along with a ton of other important features - stills, better physical controls, HDMI, full frame sensor, low light performance and all else offered by Magic Lantern aside from raw like peaking, high frame rates, zebra, manual audio, etc.

 

Magic Lantern is reliable. I can shoot all day at 1080p to my fastest CF cards without a hitch. Battery run times are similar to when shooting H.264! The rig is much lighter than my Blackmagic with external battery.

 

I own both. I cannot for the life of me keeping the BMCC EF.

 

Blackmagic still have unique selling points for me though.

 

A) The Micro Four Thirds mount camera

B) 4K and global shutter on the Production Camera

C) Super 16mm sensor on the Pocket Cinema Camera

D) Resolve 10

 

But as for the BMCC EF - it's been nice. It's been lovely. But show's over.

[markm]

Or just begun!

 

http://bmcc.tv/blackmagic-pocket-cinema-camera-market/

 

I get what you mean about the EF version though. Never an option for me.

[Andrew Reid]

Show isn't over for the Pocket Cinema Camera.

 

I suppose it is too hard to ask Mark to read anything properly.

[markm]

Nope just a bit tongue in cheek!

 

The show has only just begun in more ways than one.

[HurtinMinorKey]

This is one of the best videos I've seen so far from the hack, but it's on the 5D2. Very filmic (which i havent seen from the 5D3).

 

vimeo.com/groups/raw/videos/66667784

 

Still seeing weird judder in all the hack shots where there is lots of movement.

 

LOL, advantage 5D Deuce.

[Sean Cunningham]

So where is this footage that shows that the overall image quality from the 5D3 raw can hang with the best of the BMCC?

 

I'm not saying that we won't see it, I'm just saying that we haven't.

 

So far James Miller's "Genesis" is the single best evidence for it that I've seen.  It's the only piece produced so far that's succeeded in actually proving the DR and gradability is there without the caveat of "you just have to see the raw".  It's the first exciting imagery the patch has produced AFAIC.

[HurtinMinorKey]

So far James Miller's "Genesis" is the single best evidence for it that I've seen.  It's the only piece produced so far that's succeeded in actually proving the DR and gradability is there without the caveat of "you just have to see the raw".  It's the first exciting imagery the patch has produced AFAIC.

 

I actually thought Genesis was very limited shadow detail.  Lots of crushed blacks though, so who knows what the detail actually looked like. I definitely still think the BMCC has the edge in DR.

 

Although I did edit my post because I just saw a hacked 5D2 image that I could have sworn was film (nothing on the 5D3 has fooled me like that yet).

[JohnBarlow]

There is a thread over at ML

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5470.0

 

which looks promising in respect of recording to HDD or SSD

[markm]

Genesis was very beautifully graded. Brighton doesn't really look like that. The oranges from the fair ride horses shot at magic hour Andrew also captured a taste of that in one of his films (I downloaded some of his DNG files and had a little play in AE.)

 

I think Shane Hurlbut could have used this hack as a crash cam for his new film Need for Speed if he doesn't want to risk the Canon C500 4K. Maybe Top gun 2 could that as well.  

[Sean Cunningham]

I actually thought Genesis was very limited shadow detail.  Lots of crushed blacks though, so who knows what the detail actually looked like. I definitely still think the BMCC has the edge in DR.

 

Well, it was graded.  People uploading flat looking "raw" files that look no better than ungraded normal DSLR footage proves nothing either. The thing is, why doubt the shadow detail knowing this is 5D footage?  It's pretty clean well above 800ISO and this would have been like 200 max maybe.  Its DR is skewed to the lower end.  It's already a done deal that the BMCC has a DR advantage, at every stage from capture to bits hitting disc, but its own DR is skewed to the high end.

[Andrew Reid]

The BMCC definitely has more room to recover the highlights and when they do burn, the roll off is very smooth and film like.

 

In the blacks though, it is noisy.

 

The 5D3 has less potential for highlight recovery by about 2 stops and when they burn, they stand out.

 

The blacks though are silky and clean.

 

So the cameras both need a different approach. I expose the BMCC to the right to bring up the shadows, but I expose the 5D to the left to preserve the highlights.

 

James Miller has a good eye. Enjoyed his footage. I did a flatter grade on my footage today, and actually prefer the colour and contrast in the original. It is just so good out of the sensor, it doesn't really need that much work in post unless you are going for a very specific stylistic look.

 

Of course the potential for saving a shot which isn't exposed correctly is enormous with the BMCC and 5D3 raw compared to normal DSLR footage.

[kedbear]

This is one of the best videos I've seen so far from the hack, but it's on the 5D2. Very filmic (which i havent seen from the 5D3).

 

vimeo.com/groups/raw/videos/66667784

 

Still seeing weird judder in all the hack shots where there is lots of movement.

 

LOL, advantage 5D Deuce.

 

I agree, that is by far and away the best footage i've seen from all RAW videos. Most people seem to grade the MKIII footage into a horribly over saturated and sharpened image. The anamorphic footage Andrew posted really was not nice looking at all and very videoey, along with nearly all other videos so far.

Would really like to see if the MKIII can do something like this MKII video, i'm hoping it's just the grading since i own the MKIII! Best thing i've seen from the MKIII footage is that artisan one of the man working with wood, which was all natural light, as is the MKII one you posted! Can someone with a MKIII hack try shooting something in soft natural light with a filmic low saturation grade and post it up? V interested to see.

[Caleb Genheimer]

Turmoil! Disaster! Drama! Raw for free.

 

What a hardship. Better image quality than a $15,000 camera on your $3000 DSLR and the first ever full frame camera to record uncompressed raw internally to compact flash card.

 

FOR FREE.

 

I don't call that turmoil I call it a miracle.

 

You're trying to justify a preconceived purchasing decisions I'm afraid. The Blackmagic cameras whole selling point - ONLY selling point - was the image and raw workflow. Nobody bought a Blackmagic for the smaller sensor, heavy body, poor ergonomics and slipped delivery dates. We held out for the image. Now we have it in a DSLR, along with a ton of other important features - stills, better physical controls, HDMI, full frame sensor, low light performance and all else offered by Magic Lantern aside from raw like peaking, high frame rates, zebra, manual audio, etc.

 

Magic Lantern is reliable. I can shoot all day at 1080p to my fastest CF cards without a hitch. Battery run times are similar to when shooting H.264! The rig is much lighter than my Blackmagic with external battery.

 

I own both. I cannot for the life of me keeping the BMCC EF.

 

Blackmagic still have unique selling points for me though.

 

A) The Micro Four Thirds mount camera

B) 4K and global shutter on the Production Camera

C) Super 16mm sensor on the Pocket Cinema Camera

D) Resolve 10

 

But as for the BMCC EF - it's been nice. It's been lovely. But show's over.

 

I'll agree totally, the original EF BMCC is here and gone. That's exactly what I mean by turmoil. All of this is changing so fast, and yes that is a good thing in many ways . . . but a tricky thing to navigate as someone hoping to upgrade. I haven't bought any Blackmagic products yet, and I very well may not. But I maintain that sensor size IS an important factor, and furthermore that fullframe is not always the best option (of course, a fullframe sensor with various crop modes like the ML5DIII essentially covers all bases). I'm still hoping (probably in vain) for something with better controls than both the Blackmagic and the DSLR cameras, but that's just me. After having gone mirrorless mount, I'd rather not give that up. The adaptability is incredibly useful. 

 

For those with Canon cameras, this is an incredibly good thing as they can start shooting some really nice RAW footage if they want. But for someone with zero Canon gear wanting to get into RAW video? I guess I don't think I'd advise them to go out and get a MKIII for that. I know that there will "always be a better cam tomorrow", but in this case especially, I don't think we'll have to wait long. Blackmagic cracked the door, ML just opened up the floodgates. Any new cameras henceforth will have to seriously consider including RAW as an option. Otherwise, why would anyone upgrade to . . . say . . . a 7DII/5D4/whatever? They already kill in stills mode. All of this is good, but I'm going to wait until there are a few more out of box RAW-capable cameras out there before I pick my poison (so to speak), because once I get one, I'm going to be using it for a long time. I can't afford to switch bodies on a whim every time something new hits the fan.

[Sean Cunningham]

...Can someone with a MKIII hack try shooting something in soft natural light with a filmic low saturation grade and post it up? V interested to see.

 

Here, I'll fix that for you:

 

Can someone with a MKIII hack try shooting something in soft natural light that any compressed DSLR can also faithfully capture and post it up?

 

"filmic low saturation"?  What an odd phrase.

[letusa_play]

How feasible is a manufacturer instruct an interface (feasible for the camera and to the interface) you have and simultaneously save the usb, sd, cf, and (do not know how likely it is to pass data in the same way as above, since it is a port for video) via Hdmi. If you could get the highest speed of at least each of the three ports of the camera: usb, sd, cf, and sending them all to interface with these inputs and able to save them on a disc SSD SATAII or SATAIII . I have no Canon, but I'm very interested in the topic of video-Raw and yes pay for an external interface, able to save the images as well as for MagicL firmware. I love the picture quality.

 

Sorry for my bad English.

[blackrat]

x

[kedbear]

Here, I'll fix that for you:

 

Can someone with a MKIII hack try shooting something in soft natural light that any compressed DSLR can also faithfully capture and post it up?

 

"filmic low saturation"?  What an odd phrase.

 

 

Thanks for the fix? Seems you do not understand what i am suggesting so perhaps ask rather than being sarcastic?

 

When you shoot film it has a far lower saturation and less contrast/more tonal range than the way most people are grading these RAW files. For example Andrew's original grade of his Anamorphic footage was like reversal film stock in it's look, but with a v videoey edge in comparison to standard film. If you look at the MKII video posted, it is shot in a soft natural light, with a low contrast/saturation grade, which is part of what is making it filmic looking, because it more closely resembles the actual look of film stock in it's contrast and saturation, hence the phrase 'filmic low saturation', in comparison to most RAW videos being posted.

 

So, i want to see a MKIII video shot in similar conditions and processed the same. What's strange about that? Yes any compressed DSLR can shoot low saturation and contrast, but that's going to be a limited dynamic and tonal range low saturation and contrast due to the H.264 compression. I want to see how the same look is in RAW, not H/264 which i've seen plenty of times already.

[Bioskop.Inc]

Has anyone worked out what the base ISO is on these DNG files?

 

I seem to be getting less noise at 640/800 - do DNG files naturally have this as their base ISO? 

[tehgeek]

Well said.

[markm]

When a site has sponsers they MUST lose some of their independence i think Phil Bloom is very very careful about that and often comes with warnings

 

Not all though are as good

http://www.dvinfo.net/sponsors

 

This site actively promote cameras and on site Gurus will wax lyrical about the virtues of the cameras they promote under the protection of Chris Hurd who protects his own interests.

 

Really you have to ask is there a point to believing one sided reviews/discussions from a forum if the sellers cameras you review are paying you? Maybe useful as a demonstration site but as a forum? All your going to get is guru led promotion and fan followers. sprinkled with self proclaimed experts following the site line or worse being paid by a manufacturer like Sony to sell cameras under the guise of being unbiased and naturally reaching their conclusions through proper testing and superior knowledge. Perhaps useful if you have a problem with your chosen camera if you can overcome the I'm a pro Before they steer the conversation somewhere else and make you fell like a prat for even asking but mostly taken over by bashing or removing of any criticism. So you get bashed brainwashed and then spat out if you speak against them. But then there are a few wretched sites exactly like this Often you may get a professional who becomes a celebrity who has a boot boy gang surrounding him The celebrety takes pleasure in ruling the surfs often with great cruelty and hurls insults at newbies for entertainment. (Bullies)What is worse though is how the majority of the site back such behaviour and encourage it.