BIG NEWS - Hands on with CONTINUOUS raw recording on Canon 5D Mark III

[Andrew Reid]

"the obsession of this whole 5dmk3 raw hack is just nuts. Please just calm down and go and shoot something instead please! ;)" - Philip Bloom

 

The Canon video-dslr community has been starved for better image-quality through almost 3 generations of Canon bodies. This ML raw has pushed the progress of the image far beyond what the incremental 5D3 generation of crippled cameras by Canon has brought to the market. It's nothing short of astounding. Not sure why he's so surprised as he's been quoted - "If you have never shot raw, you don’t know just how much of a giant leap it makes compared to compressed codecs." - Philip Bloom - 

 

It's amazing how bad the 5D3 footage looks with its stock H.264 footage compared to the raw. I honestly can't believe Canon didn't cripple the video  image-quality to keep a bigger distinction between the dslr range and its cinema line. When Canon announced their $20,000 C300, I knew shit had hit the fan. Will Canon step up? Probably not. The BMC4k is a step in the right direction, so I hope more companies will take a chance on pushing progress and join them. 

 

There was that ridiculous 1D C related run-in on Twitter we had. I've seen the dark side. I'm not surprised he is belittling raw and these latest developments.

 

There's various conspiracies as to why he bangs on about the Cinema EOS C300 so much. At Photokina he was being paid by Canon to speak about Cinema EOS. A conspriacist would link the two - paid by Canon - radio silence on other products. But I don't put much stock in that. I think it is just down to personal preferences and what his work requires. Philip sees image quality second and getting a job done first. He sees the commercial side, the practical side, more clearly than the artistic side. Raw is not for him. I don't think he understands the raw workflows that well and seems a bit intimidated by the whole thing.

 

How can one ignore the clearly exciting image quality of this camera for the price, whilst bemoaning the large files and huge interest in the hack? Totally bizarre. Not even a blog post.

[Germy1979]

For god's sake, why can't people just be positive.

Lol..

It's like, face palm - "gawd damniiiiiiiit!!"

[Germy1979]

Canon won't step up because of this. They don't respond to pressure, they respond to Nikon. Had Nikon released a raw firmware for the D800, Canon would've given us 10 bit 4:2:2 maybe... Other than that, they seem to not give a shit.. - like a boss.

It's times like these you learn to suck it up:)

[markm]

You may not agree with Phil Bloom but I think it's unfair to make slurs. I'm sure a while back he used magic lantern and fried his camera and is the reason he may view the hacks with caution or keep away altogether..

For some a camera like the C300 is a perfect tool. Here we are in the UK with national broadcasts for the vast majority of broadcasts not HD let alone 4k Many HIGH end productions are not using RAW and yet here we are as consumers wanting to use workflows that would normally be used to shoot feature films and for most unneccesary.

A camera like a C300  is like a nice family luxury car. An Alexa a formula one car and a hacked 5D is UNNECCESARY for the vast majority and to shoot properly will need a crew

My argument has always been why couldn't we have a camera with a RAW workflow at consumer pricing. Yes they have held back on technology and they have sliced and diced the market for profit and now that is revealed for what it is.

 

Black Magic gave us the answer It seems plain wrong to be putting money in Canons coffers as sales of the 5D rocket and then say Manufacturers have betrayed us and been greedy as some turn their backs on Black Magic and Canon clean up.

 

If BM were to stop making cameras then canon would return us back to their good old days. It's in our interest to support those helping us. I agree that you should use the best camera possible but I disagree the hacked 5d offers improvements over the BMC especially the BM 4K camera. The pocket camera is amazing for the price and the 2.5k is groundbreaking.

 

I will say the 5D hack looks really nice so far. But lets get some persepective here. Things could go pear shaped very quickly if peoples cameras get fried and lets also realise tools are tools and back those who back us.

[mtheory]

A large chunk of BMPC pre-orders are 5D owners who wanted RAW. At the current pace of ML development it's quite certain that the hack will be fine-tuned and stable by July, - Blackmagic's promised shipping date for BMPC. I suspect that this chunk of their customers will be a lot less forgiving if BM misses this deadline. Personally, I will stick with BMPC but I imagine many won't. 

[peederj]

Well I can tell you if you had a C300 you would most likely be very happy with it and not particularly interested in owning anything else at the moment. Especially if you are a name that is hired for reasons other than your camera (and you can go ahead and cast aspersions to what those may be). I think very few working professionals who are making enough money to save some at the end of the year are hired for their camera. And many of them are more interested in...uh oh...story and composition and lighting and the other things than the camera. The C300 is just about the least pain-in-the-arse camera there is and the picture out of it is very very good 1080p and very gradeable in Canon log. Phenomenal low light. Gorgeous build and ergonomics. Very few quibbles, and some of them are being fixed in firmware.

 

I don't think Philip Bloom's ethics statement is broad enough...he claims he doesn't get paid to review cameras, and that he pays for his own cameras. OK, but he gets paid by manufacturers of those cameras for other things, such as shooting demo videos (as he did for Panasonic GH3), doing speaking engagements, etc. He very likely wouldn't be paid for those things if he wasn't the most famous video camera reviewer in the world. So yes he is a bit interest conflicted.

 

But even so, I don't think that's why he shoots C300. Canon doesn't need to bribe undercover spokespeople as some smaller firms apparently do. I think he just finds that camera fits his needs perfectly and lets him focus on other things. As my C100 (supplemented with the Ninja) does for me (I paid full retail for it, the original $6500, and I have never been paid or otherwise compensated by Canon or Atomos or any other related manufacturer or distributor ever for any reason). I'm sure he will cover the 5D3 ML RAW hack when it settles down, it's not a conspiracy Andrew. I wonder whether you really believe these things or you think the controversial claims make the blog more exciting.

[Andrew Reid]

I'm sure a while back he used magic lantern and fried his camera and is the reason he may view the hacks with caution or keep away altogether..

Not true. Magic Lantern has never 'fried' a camera.
 

For some a camera like the C300 is a perfect tool.

 

Yeah - and didn't I just say that in my post? Do you ever read or watch anything fully?

 

 

Here we are in the UK with national broadcasts for the vast majority of broadcasts not HD let alone 4k Many HIGH end productions are not using RAW and yet here we are as consumers wanting to use workflows that would normally be used to shoot feature films and for most unneccesary.

 

Silly us wanting feature film quality, whatever next

 

 

If BM were to stop making cameras then canon would return us back to their good old days. It's in our interest to support those helping us. I agree that you should use the best camera possible but I disagree the hacked 5d offers improvements over the BMC especially the BM 4K camera. The pocket camera is amazing for the price and the 2.5k is groundbreaking.

 

 

What kind of crazy analysis is this? I don't see your train of thought at all. Canon return us 'back to the good old days' if Blackmagic wasn't making raw cinema cameras for $3000? Um, ok.

 

The Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5K and Pocket Cinema Camera are indeed groundbreaking. Again another obvious statement that doesn't really tell me anything. So the Magic Lantern raw is ground breaking too, and at the moment I'd give the image quality crown to the 5D Mark III but it is still early days in shooting with both.

 

 
I will say the 5D hack looks really nice so far. But lets get some persepective here. Things could go pear shaped very quickly if peoples cameras get fried and lets also realise tools are tools and back those who back us.

 

If you ever try it yourself have a look at the temperature readout in Magic Lantern. Unless you can fry silicon at 50 degrees C (MacBook runs idle at that) you won't be having chips for dinner.

[Andrew Reid]

Well I can tell you if you had a C300 you would most likely be very happy with it and not particularly interested in owning anything else at the moment.

 

Apparently peederj now speaks for me!

 

Image is what matters to me, and price. Rather have this image than 1D C or C300 and would rather invest the money I save on lenses.

 

Especially if you are a name that is hired for reasons other than your camera (and you can go ahead and cast aspersions to what those may be). I think very few working professionals who are making enough money to save some at the end of the year are hired for their camera. And many of them are more interested in...uh oh...story and composition and lighting and the other things than the camera. The C300 is just about the least pain-in-the-arse camera there is and the picture out of it is very very good 1080p and very gradeable in Canon log. Phenomenal low light. Gorgeous build and ergonomics. Very few quibbles, and some of them are being fixed in firmware.

 

BBC camera man on Top Gear used C300 for a run & gun sequence with F1 drivers in London and hated every second of it. He said the ergonomics were hopeless.

 

I've used it (and the C100), it's OK in my view, better than bad. Nothing to get that excited about.

 

You don't need to roll out that tired obvious argument about story, composition, etc.

 

It is like saying HEY aliens just landed with all guns blazing, what shall we do? Oh we better eat food, otherwise we won't survive to fight them off.

 

Pleeeeease give it a break about story.

 

Some films don't even have narrative stories as their main emotional core, they have images and soundscapes.

 

 
I don't think Philip Bloom's ethics statement is broad enough...he claims he doesn't get paid to review cameras, and that he pays for his own cameras. OK, but he gets paid by manufacturers of those cameras for other things, such as shooting demo videos (as he did for Panasonic GH3), doing speaking engagements, etc. He very likely wouldn't be paid for those things if he wasn't the most famous video camera reviewer in the world. So yes he is a bit interest conflicted.
 
But even so, I don't think that's why he shoots C300.

 

Neither do I. READ what I said.

 

Canon doesn't need to bribe undercover spokespeople as some smaller firms apparently do. I think he just finds that camera fits his needs perfectly and lets him focus on other things. As my C100 (supplemented with the Ninja) does for me (I paid full retail for it, the original $6500, and I have never been paid or otherwise compensated by Canon or Atomos or any other related manufacturer or distributor ever for any reason). I'm sure he will cover the 5D3 ML RAW hack when it settles down, it's not a conspiracy Andrew. I wonder whether you really believe these things or you think the controversial claims make the blog more exciting.

 

This is in danger of going off topic, can we please put a halt to the following frustrating topics -

 

Bloom

Story and content matters (it's obvious, people don't NEED to keep banging on about it!)

C300 suits a lot of working pros (again it's obvious... and completely irrelevant to the thread)

 

Some people can NEVER EVER just enjoy a technical achievement or discussion without patronising us with tittle tattle about stories.

[Oliver Daniel]

 

 

Bloom

Story and content matters (it's obvious, people don't NEED to keep banging on about it!)

C300 suits a lot of working pros (again it's obvious... and completely irrelevant to the thread)

 

Some people can NEVER EVER just enjoy a technical achievement or discussion without patronising us with tittle tattle about stories.

 

Technical achievements in cameras are awesome as I see them as a way to utilise your creativity and create a better story by using the tools you have in your camera. For instance, I need high frame rates for music videos and this can add an incredible amount of effect to the overall story/performance in the video. 

 

I would leave Philip Bloom alone, there's nothing wrong with his opinion. He is fully entitled to his opinion and his love for the C300. Its a great camera for him and many others who see the value in such a product. 

 

I do agree somewhat with the obsessing versus shoot something thing though. There are many 'filmmakers' online who seem to only bother doing tests of flowers and trees in their back gardens and raving/discussing about technological advancements, rather than actually making something that truly tests the cameras in a proper structured project.

 

I can see you want to put a halt to this as the thread is about the 5D MK III recording raw video. My conclusion overall is if you want to use it, then do it! If you have reservations, then don't do it!

 

I'm excited about raw, my workflow wont allow it now but I'm sure we will meet in the future. 

[JohnBarlow]

The Raw and the Cooked :)

 

[HurtinMinorKey]

Is there any way to monitor while you are recording? Is the screen still blinking while recording?

[Andrew Reid]

I do agree somewhat with the obsessing versus shoot something thing though. There are many 'filmmakers' online who seem to only bother doing tests of flowers and trees in their back gardens and raving/discussing about technological advancements, rather than actually making something that truly tests the cameras in a proper structured project.

 

So what? Leave them too it. There's also nothing wrong with being a hobbyist and experimenting. Even Kubrick began that way. You don't have to watch the tons and tons of raw test videos. Most of these people also shoot professionally or shoot their own artistic endeavours too. It's just that nobody ever watches those so they think the tests are all they do!

 

Once someone said to me (a rival well blogger actually) that all I ever shot were tests.

 

He came up to me with this crazy email rant, "you're just a tester, faffing around, not a real filmmaker like me!"

 

No... All he'd ever seen were my tests and he wasn't interested in the other stuff!

 

Be careful what prism one views the other through. It can be distorted.

[jgharding]

I think those who are uninterested in this are primarily careerist secret spokesmen. Some more secret than others.

 

This is a good site because it's run by someone who speaks their mind and has their heart in independent film.

 

Bloggers giving "masterclasses" can suck a bag of dicks.

 

Not one of them can get off moaning at the rest of us for testing to get good quality for cheap, most of them make films that flat out suck and only get watched because they're "the first film with X new Canon" and so on, so the hypocrisy among some of the glorified bloggers out there moaning about people testing and sharing info is startling.

 

At least the people here share info, help each other out and take constructive criticism like grown ups, I can think of two very well known film bloggers who behave like pathetic brats whenever they're criticised or even questioned and expect everyone on their forum to personal worship every frame. They start with this "how dare you moan I give you this or free" crap

 

Well yes, so does all of YouTube and Vimeo, what makes these guys special?

 

I recently had a load of Vimeo comments deleted for suggesting that the title of a tutorial film by a well-known DSLR "tutor" didn't match the content (which was more like an advert). I wasn't rude, I simply suggested that the defensive attitude was counter productive, and that after four comments relating to it from different people, renaming should be considered.

 

The result: a childish rant in the description and deletion of every comment except worshipful praise. No grown-up style "yes that's a good idea, I'll consider it" or "I can see why you'd think that, but I prefer to stick with this". Nope, it was back to the playground.

It's sad really. These people are pretty much bitter also rans. I don't mind also rans, it's what most of us become, but the bitter ones? They can leave...

[Sean Cunningham]

 

Bloggers giving "masterclasses" can suck a bag of dicks.

 

I was trying to stay done with this thread and this topic but...I just had to say...I love you man.  I haven't heard or seen anyone use that phrase in years.  I missed it.  

 

 

edit: PS, you wanna get really annoyed?  I saw in a thread on a GH2 facebook group that PB is ebaying a bunch of old gear at the moment and the stuff is going above MSRP, because he touched it I guess.  

[jgharding]

Hahaha sometimes it gets upgraded to a barrel 

[Andrew Reid]

Is the stuff signed?

 

He has a god complex and sadly, now a flock.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Is the stuff signed?

 

He has a god complex and sadly, now a flock.

 

And yet i still really enjoy his review videos...

 

Let's not forget that he's has a much stronger preference for documentary style work, which makes the raw workflow even more cumbersome for him.  So i can see why he isn't pooping his pants over the 5D or the BMCC.

 

But at the end of the day he's pretty good at what he does.  I'd take PB, in terms of skill, over Laforet or Shulburt.

[Sean Cunningham]

Is the stuff signed?

 

He has a god complex and sadly, now a flock.

 

LOL, I didn't notice.  I just couldn't believe the stuff was going for more than retail.  I feel evil for saying so but somehow it made me picture "Dr" Phil selling old psychiatric books and paraphernalia.

[nigelbb]

Let's not forget that he's has a much stronger preference for documentary style work, which makes the raw workflow even more cumbersome for him.  So i can see why he isn't pooping his pants over the 5D or the BMCC.

 

That's not surprising as he was a cameraman for Sky News for 16+ years.

[Sean Cunningham]

 

Let's not forget that he's has a much stronger preference for documentary style work, which makes the raw workflow even more cumbersome for him.  So i can see why he isn't pooping his pants over the 5D or the BMCC.

 

 

My problem with that apology for him is he's making purely visual, short-form documentaries for the most part.  If his work is all about the image then it should be all about the image.  He's not doing investigative journalism or following activism or doing war correspondence.  

 

Granted, most of it isn't going to be viewed anywhere but online, so there is that.

 

edit: imagine Baraka or Samsara if the filmmakers had just set out around the world with a compressed DSLR.  Sure, there'd still be lovely moments captured but...he's free to do what he wants, it's just that now he's maneuvered himself into a position where he doesn't have to work with such engineered compromises.