The M43 Cinema - 3 Way Battle

[sanveer]

As everyone in these forums has already figured out, in the last few days, at NAB, we have 2 more contestants in the Best M43 Video Category, and suddenly in the sub-2k Category, we have now 3 Very Competent Cameras for the Ultimate Face-off for Features and Price. The bad part is that there is there is a lot of confusion, and some would want to own All Three (or atleast test them comprehensively). The Good part is, any of these 3 would be better than good enough. This is a face-off in terms of features, by way of Pros and Cons, between the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4k, the Z Cam E2 and the Panasonic GH5s. 

What is common is obviously the New Sony Starvis IMX-294 sensor and thus the excellent low light capabilities that come with it (Dual ISO)

Here are the Pros and Cons of each. Please feel free to make corrections or additions.

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4k
Pros:

1. Cheapest of the 3 at $1295, which is approx. 35% Cheaper than the Z Cam E2 and approx 48% Cheaper than the Panasonic GH5s. Which is Huge TBO. 
2. The masters of post production colour and grade. Excellent colour science and the industry leaders in colouring and grading, and thus the ability to know what codecs, colour science  and what bitrates would best suit cinema camera footage. The first guys to point out the fundamental flaws with ProRes RAW. I am betting on their Colour Science would be better than the other two. The only question would therefore be, by how much (considering how lovely the Varicam image it, I am guessing, by maybe a hair, in ProRes, though noticeable in RAW). 
3. Have a 5 year experience in RAW shooting Affordable Cinema Camera Manufacturing, with the Original Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera being a runaway hit, despite all its flaws, mostly due to its 13 stops usable dynamic range and its tiny form factor. The design on that one was superb even if the battery life a lack of ports was a major drawback. 
4. Bluetooth control
5. Includes FREE DaVinci Resolve Studio thrown in, which itself is about another $299 alone
6. It seems to be the only 1 of the 3, to have an onboard fan. Which seems odd, but Grant mentioned the advantage of a fan, saying that any kind of heat would adversely affect the image quality, having a degrading effect on the image. I am guessing it would introduces very visible noise, make the image soft, and also reduce dynamic range. This may be a clear advantage for the BMPCC 4k, for pushing slightly past the competition. Also, if the fan is anything like that on the MacBoom Pro, it would be very faintly audible, if at all.
7. Right now, the BMPCC seems have the largest Codec options.
8. Arguably the best Interface/ OS. Very predictive (like the Panasonic), with large clear button, and not insanely wide menus like Sonys, and everything very clearly laid out. 
9. A Bright and Large 5 Inch Screen
10. Balanced Mini-XLR mic jack for some good on-board recording (though unlikely to replace a boom operator, or talents with lapels). 
11. 3 Onboard mic options (4 onboard mics, Mini-XLR and 3.5mm mic in options).
12. SD and CFast Card option,s apart from SSD 
13. Dual Continuous Power options. One by way of USB type-C
14. Limited storage options due to SD, CFast and USB options
15. The Only one of the 3 offering RAW right now

Cons:

1. The largest in size of the 3. Though not the heaviest, and also, likely with the best ergonomics for comfortable long recordings.
2. Codecs are limited to ProRes and RAW. Which, TBO is not a bad thing, considering the the sheer number of flavours of ProRes and RAW that are available, and the fact that ProRes starts at some very lot bitrates (PRoRes LT and Proxy). This could, though, be Incorrect, because I heard grant saying that it has HLG, which I am guessing would be on the H.264/ H2.65 platform (please correct me if I am wrong). 
3. It has a fan on board, which would mean that there is a possibility of it being heard, atleast in extremely quite environments. Also, the fact the heat wave may also be mildly distracting if you hold the camera in the hand
4. Completely non-articulating screen. Most likely due to the dangers of a huge screen in a swivel design causing hinges to break easily or pushing into wires and ports. Also, tensile strength may be an issue with the carbon composite hybrid material. 

Panasonic GH5s
Pros:

1. Arguably one of the best weather sealing in a camera. Surprisingly a lot better than even some top end DSLRs.
2. Superb battery life
3. Fully articulating screen
4. OLED Viewfinder
5. Bluetooth Control
6. Excellent ergonomics and very manageable shape and size of body
7. 240 fps at 1080p
8. Dual SD Card slots with swappable SD cards during recording, as cards fill up, to have almost limitless recording 
9. Continuous power option
10. 3 Year Extended Warranty. Though, for me, the Panasonic after sales has not been terribly inspiring. I am sure, your mileage may vary, varying from region to region
11. Being in the Cinema Camera industry for pretty long, despite the short hiatus when RAW was the new Cinema Camera Industry Standard

Cons:

1. Most Expensive of the 3 at $2500
2. Screen size is good by DSLR standards, but requires a monitor, especially for very fine monitoring
3. Codecs limited to H.264, though from some reviewers, they seem at power or better than some flavours of ProRes 10-bit 4-2-2
    

Z Cam E2
Pros:

1. The Only one among the 3, that is offering 120fps at 4k. which frankly is HUGE
2. Claimed dynamic range of 13.5 stops (which is Quite Likely, if they use the QuadBayer pattern, this sensor is capable of). The 1/2 stop of dynamic range may even be noticeable to some some self-claimed experts of dynamic range and great camera testers. 
3. Presently the tinniest form factor
4. Offers H.265 apart from H.264. Which would make file sizes noticeably smaller than the other 2 for the same kind of data
5. While neither RAW nor ProRes are available right now, there was mention of a RAW flavour (could be DNG RAW)
6. Deep Learning Engine (not sure how it fits into a Cinema Camera lineup, except for fancy lingo, used by all random smartphone companies nowadays)
7. Gigabit Ethernet port for control setting & live streaming

Cons:

1. ONLY CFast storage options on-board
2. No Screen to see the footage
3. Tiny LED to check data only
4. Missing most of the body, including LCD or monitor, handles etc etc
5. The missing accessories could add substantially to the final price of a usable product
6. Company that is relatively unheard of. Warranty and after sales may be a bet
7. It only has the equivalent of a camera brain. Users would have to buy a host of accessories to be able to fully use the camera

 

All there have autofocus, and if GH5s is any indication, it would absolutely dreadful. I am also guessing that Time Code sync, Waveform, Vector Scopes, and programmable Zebra patters (apart from false colour etc), may be common to all three. All the extra bells and whistles would be knows soon enough, I guess. . 

[Emanuel]

120fps @4K [Z cam E2]

To stand corrected there : )

AF will be limited on BMPCC 4K as far as we can guess. Useful comparison table anyway :-)

[Anaconda_]

Great comparisons. You should also add internal 4k50/60p to the Pocket as that's a huge factor for a lot of people's interest. Myself included. Also likeable CEO haha

But also maybe add about release times?

[sanveer]

14 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

120fps @4K [Z cam E2]

Corrected it. Thanks for pointing it out. 

14 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

AF will be limited on BMPCC 4K as far as we can guess.

Actually if Grant was confident enough to have a 2nd Autofocus button in the Front and use it to record himself, I am guessing the BMPCC 4k may actually have very respectable auto focus (within the limits of this non PDAF sensor). 

13 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

reat comparisons. You should also add internal 4k50/60p to the Pocket as that's a huge factor for a lot of people's interest. Myself included. Also likeable CEO haha

But also maybe add about release times?

Thank you.

I guess all 3 of these have 4k 50p/60p internal. Unless the Panasonic only has it via HDMI (?).

I am not sure of release date for the Z Cam E2, and Blackmagic had a fiasco with the BMPCC, though I didn't hear anything similar on those lines for the URSA or other cameras. It may therefore e based based on surmises and conjectures, for now. 

[jonpais]

What's lacking on all three cameras, as I see it, is 1080i 50Mbps.

[sanveer]

10 minutes ago, jonpais said:

What's lacking on all three cameras, as I see it, is 1080i 50Mbps.

For broadcast?

[jhnkng]

46 minutes ago, sanveer said:

The first guys to point out the fundamental flaws with ProRes RAW

I missed that completely, what did Blackmagic say about Prores RAW?

[sanveer]

1 minute ago, jhnkng said:

I missed that completely, what did Blackmagic say about Prores RAW?

In one of those BMPCC 4k launch interviews, he called it Rubbish, in a finer selection of words.

[Emanuel]

45 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Actually if Grant was confident enough to have a 2nd Autofocus button in the Front and use it to record himself, I am guessing the BMPCC 4k may actually have very respectable auto focus (within the limits of this non PDAF sensor). 

Thank you.

I guess all 3 of these have 4k 50p/60p internal. Unless the Panasonic only has it via HDMI (?).

I am not sure of release date for the Z Cam E2, and Blackmagic had a fiasco with the BMPCC, though I didn't hear anything similar on those lines for the URSA or other cameras. It may therefore e based based on surmises and conjectures, for now. 

I read somewhere about June.

Indeed. Hope Vlogging may push the boundaries, as matter of fact. Funny to write it but that's the way it is. Media convergence times advantage, I believe :-)

[anonim]

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

As everyone in these forums has already figured out, in the last few days, at NAB, we have 2 more contestants in the Best M43 Video Category, and suddenly in the sub-2k Category, we have now 3 Very Competent Cameras for the Ultimate Face-off for Features and Price.

Apart of fear of some funny pompous voices, I can't understand why GH5 would not be include in the list - especially if the sense of comparison is working usability?

[sanveer]

12 minutes ago, anonim said:

Apart of fear of some funny pompous voices, I can't understand why GH5 would not be include in the list - especially if the sense of comparison is working usability?

Actually these 3 cameras share the Same Sensor, and thus the excellent low light and dual native ISO. Also, they are thus all limited to 10.7MP in the 4/3 mode as max resolution. In effect they aren't hybrids but cinema cameras with 10-bit and above codecs. 

[cantsin]

7 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Actually these 3 cameras share the Same Sensor, and thus the excellent low light and dual native ISO. Also, they are thus all limited to 10.7MP in the 4/3 mode as max resolution. In effect they aren't hybrids but cinema cameras with 10-bit and above codecs. 

Does the Zcam actually have a 10bit codec?

[anonim]

15 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Actually these 3 cameras share the Same Sensor, and thus the excellent low light and dual native ISO. Also, they are thus all limited to 10.7MP in the 4/3 mode as max resolution. In effect they aren't hybrids but cinema cameras with 10-bit and above codecs. 

Thanks and - OK, your list, your definition ... I mention it only because of "battle" title that you put in the first line - "in the Best M43 Video Category".

[sanveer]

14 minutes ago, cantsin said:

Does the Zcam actually have a 10bit codec?

Yes. This 2nd generation product does 10-bit in H.264 and H.265 for now with a hint for RAW capabilities in the future.

 

4 minutes ago, anonim said:

Thanks and - OK, your list, your definition ... I mention it only because of "battle" title that you put in the first line - "in the Best M43 Video Category".

The GH5 has a much higher 20MP resolution sensor and average low light. Plus that IBIS is a boon or a curse depending on whether you like to destroy cars and cameras, or you prefer using them as instructed. 

[IronFilm]

A "pro" shared by all three (yet is very rare at this price point!): timecode inputs!

It is an unknown however as to which of the three are implementing it best, my money is on perhaps the BMPCC4K

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1304877-REG/panasonic_dmw_xlr1_xlr_microphone_adapter.html
The Panasonic DMW-XLR1 is a specific pro in favor of just the GH5.

The mini XLR input is a pro just in favor for the BMPCC4K

[anonim]

2 minutes ago, sanveer said:

...depending on whether you like to destroy cars and cameras, or you prefer using them as instructed. 

Thanks again, now I understand better process of your conclusion.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

What's lacking on all three cameras, as I see it, is 1080i 50Mbps.

They're also all lacked a SD recording resolution option.

49 minutes ago, anonim said:

Apart of fear of some funny pompous voices, I can't understand why GH5 would not be include in the list - especially if the sense of comparison is working usability?

Agree it should be a four way face off with the original GH5 as well.

Five if you consider counting the Kinefinity Terra 4K as well!

[anonim]

4 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Agree it should be a four way face off with the original GH5 as well.

Five if you consider counting the Kinefinity Terra 4K as well!

Thank you - just, maybe omission of Terra 4K looks more founded because of higher price?

I was simply wrong thinking that criteria is on-the-field value as "Best video m43". But now with argument that mention and point to "destroying camera and cars" I see my mistake in commenting on.

[IronFilm]

20 minutes ago, anonim said:

Thank you - just, maybe omission of Terra 4K looks more founded because of higher price?

The body of the Terra 4K is "only" a grand and half more than the body of the GH5S

[Emanuel]

4 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

The body of the Terra 4K is "only" a grand and half more than the body of the GH5S

And what about the sensor there?