Best used setup for filming ff dslr on a really tight budget

[IronFilm]

16 hours ago, nigelbb said:

A used 5DII is a great buy almost half the price of a D750. I can see why the OP wants to buy a 5DII.

The 5Dmk2 is also hell old, and a greatly inferior stills camera, not to mention massively worse video performance stock. 

(ditto even the 5Dmk3 being worse than the D750 in both stills and stock video performance)

[cantsin]

20 hours ago, mercer said:

Ugh... why do all of the posts from people asking for opinions on specific cameras turn into discussions why the OP should buy an entirely different camera instead? 

Because many people misunderstand the meaning of "full frame" (mixing it up with s35). And because, if you're on a budget, a full frame sensor should, in most cases, be your last priority.

[Stanley]

Hey Erik, sounds like you'd be comfortable with the 5d MK2  and ML, so buy it and see what happens. As for the last question you asked, get a GH2, best 1080p camera apart from BMPCC,  no need to hack it, and life will be so easy learning more. You also will be able to edit on any reasonable run of the mill computer with GH2 files...just sayin'

[nigelbb]

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

The 5Dmk2 is also hell old, and a greatly inferior stills camera, not to mention massively worse video performance stock. 

(ditto even the 5Dmk3 being worse than the D750 in both stills and stock video performance)

Crap! The 5D2 is a great stills camera & is also capable of shooting absolutely amazing video with Magic Lantern RAW but also very decent cinematic video without any hacking. Just because there are newer more expensive cameras with even better low light performance & higher resolution that doesn't suddenly make the 5D2 a rubbish camera. Here in the UK you can buy a used 5D2 from Wex for £500 including a 12 month warranty. That's amazing value for the quality of the camera & the images it is capable of.

This video made over nine years ago before the 5D2 was shipping is what started the whole DSLR revolution (unfortunately for some bizarre reason there are no 1080p HD versions that I could find online any more)

If resolution & dynamic range is what you want then what about this shot with a  5D2 with Magic Lantern RAW?

 

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, nigelbb said:

Crap! The 5D2 is a great stills camera & is also capable of shooting absolutely amazing video with Magic Lantern RAW but also very decent cinematic video without any hacking.

Just because the 5Dmk2 was suitable and "good for its time" doesn't mean the D750 is not a lot better stills camera and does a lot better stock video. 

(note I've said stock, when comparing video from each. As ML raw is a whole other kettle of fish, and isn't applicable to many people or at all times)

[nigelbb]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Just because the 5Dmk2 was suitable and "good for its time" doesn't mean the D750 is not a lot better stills camera and does a lot better stock video. 

(note I've said stock, when comparing video from each. As ML raw is a whole other kettle of fish, and isn't applicable to many people or at all times)

The OP is on a tight budget & a used D750 is twice the price of a used 5D2. The 5D2 also gives the option of Magic Lantern RAW.

[deatrier]

Hi!
Many thanks for all the replies, support and questions, I wasn't expecting all this thanks. Ill try to explain my position/choises in more detail: Im a novice in filming and photography, art student, Ive tried some different cameras, I have a slightly defect canon 350 (apsc from 2006ish), and got to use a gh4 for my last project. Sometimes I need to take photos for documentation, and for fun, but I don't think I need to buy a new, or really good camera for that, I can borrow etc, but it would be more convenient. Anyhow Id like to get something versatile with with which I could get decent video without terrible moire straight out of the camera aswell as Im intrigued with being able to shoot raw and get the extra when doing something "special" or more worth the computer-hours. I will probably film quite different things, in low light, long/short distance, narrative story, nature shots, interviews, city etc but not really sports, birds or any unplanned action. Also Id prefer to use full frame to try it out, to have access to its advantages and it kinda feels "closer to the craft" somehow (but I guess some will disagree and maybe Im being kind of conservative). When photoing I prefer a mirror-viewfinder, but since I'm mostly going to film maybe its not worth putting emphasis on this, or maybe its good for getting good focus with a manual lens before a static film shot. 
With the 5dii I'm a little of concerned the 12min video limit, it doesn't seem to go away with ML, or do you know this? (but probably I will only shoot shorter clips anyway). 
Also I enjoy the idea of getting something used and tweakable to get good quality for less. I don't mind putting some extra time in putting together a nice kit and nice settings (both with the camera and with video editing), but then Id like to end up with something that can work pretty well kind of point and shoot, so if theres to much continuous hassle then it might be more worth it with something more simple, but I'm optimistic. 
Do you think theres a big difference between the 5dii and 5diii regarding build quality? I guess the 5dii won't be very resellable in a few years. Or is there no need to get into this too much just having an eye on the shutter count? 

For lenses I was thinking maybe two prime lenses (nikkor?) and maybe one af regular cheap zoom (like tamron), maybe its more worth it with all old primes or some used af prime, Id be very thankful for any input on this as well, but it kind of seems like the next step. 

[KnightsFan]

Based on your interest in full frame Raw, then really it's either the 5d2 or stretch and get the 5d3 if you can find an amazing deal.

Obviously, many of us have different priorities, but if that's what's important to you, then it's basically down to those two and seems to be mainly an economic choice.

 

8 hours ago, deatrier said:

or maybe its good for getting good focus with a manual lens before a static film shot.

Electronic viewfinders and screens are actually easier to focus with, because you can usually do a pixel-to-pixel magnification and/or focus peaking. Optical viewfinders can be more fun to use, but focusing with an evf is easy, too.

8 hours ago, deatrier said:

but then Id like to end up with something that can work pretty well kind of point and shoot, so if theres to much continuous hassle then it might be more worth it with something more simple, but I'm optimistic.

Shooting Raw on a Canon camera is not simple. The post workflow isn't bad, though it will take some experimentation. The main problem is that when shooting HD raw, you get like 5 minutes from a 32GB card. Compressed raw and lower bit depths were announced since the last time I used ML, so the situation is a little better now, but it's still very different from shooting all day on a 32GB SD card like you can with H.264. If you go raw for an all-day shoot, you will either need a LOT of cards, or you will need to dump cards to a hard drive as they fill up.

Not to dissuade you. Like I said, the image is worth it. But you will need to budget for cards and hard drives.

8 hours ago, deatrier said:

For lenses I was thinking maybe two prime lenses (nikkor?)

I have a set of Nikkor K lenses that I love. Great character (not terribly sharp, lots of distortion and CA, but wonderful vibrant colors), great handling, they can adapt to anything, easy to declick (if you're into that). Would definitely recommend them for the price.

[nigelbb]

22 hours ago, deatrier said:

Hi!
With the 5dii I'm a little of concerned the 12min video limit, it doesn't seem to go away with ML, or do you know this? (but probably I will only shoot shorter clips anyway). 

12 minutes is about the same length of time as filming using 35mm cassette on a "proper" movie. It's only wedding videographers who obsess about the video limit. 12 minutes is a long time & ML does an auto restart if necessary so you lose less than a second.

22 hours ago, deatrier said:

Do you think theres a big difference between the 5dii and 5diii regarding build quality? I guess the 5dii won't be very resellable in a few years. Or is there no need to get into this too much just having an eye on the shutter count? 

I have owned both 5D2s & 5D3s. They feel almost identical in your hands. The build quality of both is exceptional. They will take a lot of punishment. I wouldn't worry too much about reselling a 5D2 in a few years. I doubt that the used price will drop much lower. Shutter count can't be relied on as a measure of how much use the camera has has as if it's been used mostly for video it may well have a very low shutter count.

[cantsin]

The absolutely cheapest way to shoot video with full-frame look is to buy

• a used Sony NEX-5N body for $200;
• an off-brand Speed Booster/focal reducer for E-mount (for example with Nikon baynoet) for $70;
• a second-hand, vintage, manual focus 50mm/1.8 DSLR lens for no more than $50.

I actually have these lying around and could shoot a test video just for the fun of it.

[webrunner5]

5 minutes ago, cantsin said:

The absolutely cheapest way to shoot video with full-frame look is to buy

• a used Sony NEX-5N body for $200;
• an off-brand Speed Booster/focal reducer for E-mount (for example with Nikon baynoet) for $70;
• a second-hand, vintage, manual focus 50mm/1.8 DSLR lens for no more than $50.

I actually have these lying around and could shoot a test video just for the fun of it.

And it is an amazingly small and light package to boot.

[capitanazo]

what about an eos m1 with a cheap focal reducer plus magiclantern, some good prime lens or and a cheap tokina 28-70?
with magic lantern sd speedhack could be a really nice option.

[cantsin]

9 minutes ago, capitanazo said:

what about an eos m1 with a cheap focal reducer plus magiclantern, some good prime lens or and a cheap tokina 28-70?
with magic lantern sd speedhack could be a really nice option.

Yes, but most of the Magic Lantern raw video modes work with sensor crop, so you'd lose the full frame look...

[mercer]

I’m unsure why people are so adamantly opposed to ML Raw around here? The process is rather painless now and the hacked firmware is as stable as Canon’s original firmware... in the year I have been shooting ML Raw, I have had zero issues with reliability.

The post processing time is a hair more time consuming but with MLVFS, it is pretty quick... once you copy the MLV files to a hard drive, the footage runs in Resolve as if it were any other footage.

Sure if you’re an event videographer and need to collect a lot of footage, then it may not be the right choice... even though there are wedding videographers that use the 5D3 and ML Raw to much success.

So the only issue is storage. For the most part, storage isn’t that expensive.

Personally, the “storage restraints” have forced me to become more thoughtful about what I shoot. I am working only on narratives, so in a lot of ways, ML Raw has been a godsend. I no longer have hours upon hours worth of footage to comb through. I pre-visualize my scenes, make a shot list and get the shots. I don’t do a bunch of takes for the sake of it.

[IronFilm]

Speedy workflow matters. Tonnes and tonnes of productions don't shoot 4K or raw because of this. The last couple of films I have been working on both got shot on Arri cameras, and both are ProRes not Arri Raw. Raw is less important than some people think. 

[KnightsFan]

@mercer Not sure if you're referring to me, but I'm not opposed to Magic Lantern. I absolutely love it!

But I do want to be honest about workflow challenges so deatrier can make an informed decision. Raw, and especially Magic Lanter, is certainly most appealing to those of us who love tinkering, and have plenty of hard drives. Some people might not be into that.

[deatrier]

Hi!
Now Ive been looking a little bit into lenses, and I figured it seemed reasonable to get some old/80s manual focus prime nikkors of different focal lengths, like one 24 or 35mm, one 50mm, one 85ish and maybe that would be a good start, also I was thinking maybe a 80-200 zoom manual focus nikkor (Nikon 80-200mm f/4.5 N - AI Zoom?).
what do you think? if you weren't very experienced would you choose to go all primes? would you choose to go all manual focus?
Also I got the tip that as a beginner I should get a 50mm that was autofocus and same brand as my camera (still thinking canon 5d ii or if I find a bargain 5diii), what do you think of that?

And would you recommend me to get a ND-filter at start? (keeping in mind overall low budget)
Would you get a lens adapter for every lens (if I got several nikkors eg.)

About camera choises, it was interesting with the tip of the speed booster, but it seems like it would add up to about the same money and then I think it seems more fun to go with something more sturdy or classic even though its older technology, also I like the 5d´s weatherproofing (but maybe its not a big deal). The prices of different options also seem to shift quite some with different ads and id prefer to get something in my hometown or near so I can check it beforehand and not have to risk anything breaking or being stolen in the post. 
I don't see the storage issues with raw filming with the 5d´s as a great obstacle, external hard drives being quite cheap, but I guess it will add some, also with getting several cf-cards. I don't love tinkering, my hope was to learn a repeatable work process (where I could use same and/or similar sets for color correction, filters and such most of the times(don't know anything about this at the moment)) that I could do whenever I do a special project, and otherwise stick with the non raw footage. Maybe its optimistic?

/ Erik

[KnightsFan]

Your lens choices seem reasonable to me. You could grab a 50 to start with, and see whether you find yourself wishing for a longer or shorter lens. I personally would go for manual focus primes. I wouldn't say that it matters all that much in terms of how easy it is to start with.

I still don't have an ND filter. It's only crucial if your camera has a high base ISO, like 800 or 1600 on some Sony cameras. You should get a polar filter though, which can more or less be used as an ND filter as well.

I have a Nikon->Canon adapter for each lens. They're cheap, and a pain to get on and off.

Yeah, a new speed booster costs almost as much as a used 5d2, and there's no mirrorless APS-C cameras that shoot raw. So it doesn't seem like it's a good fit for you.

You'll be able to get a repeatable process with raw, though that sort of defeats the purpose of having all that flexibility. But like you say, it's always nice to have if you need it for a specific project.

[deatrier]

Thanks! what do you think of buying lenses (or cameras for that matter) on eBay? Did you do it? Are you relaxed with it not breaking in shipping or comfortable that the seller is honest and has checked the product (if good rep seller)?
(id prefer being able to hold them and at least look at them before buying but seeing theres such a great amount of nice ones on eBay..)

[mercer]

On 4/24/2018 at 8:00 PM, KnightsFan said:

@mercer Not sure if you're referring to me, but I'm not opposed to Magic Lantern. I absolutely love it!

But I do want to be honest about workflow challenges so deatrier can make an informed decision. Raw, and especially Magic Lanter, is certainly most appealing to those of us who love tinkering, and have plenty of hard drives. Some people might not be into that.

Sorry, I swore I replied to this. No, I wasn’t referring to you, specifically, or even generally. And I agree, ML Raw is not for the timid. I have a friend who is a filmmaker, and he has loved what I’ve been doing since I started shooting with my 5D3. But as much as he loves the look, he’d rather shoot with IBIS and get “close.” So you’re right to state the issues with ML Raw, even if we don’t necessarily see them as such.