Matt James Smith ? Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Canon Rumors just reported a patent filing by Canon for a pretty fancy looking swappable lens mount. Also interesting is the camera body the image shows the mount on. Looks a hell of a lot like an XC camera to me (note the fan on the side and the grip style. I’m an XC-10 and M5 owner (my “daypack” cameras) and love both but always wish they were combined so I could use more interesting lenses on the XC-10. If we’re looking at an APSC sensor in this camera - and it’s hard to imagine Canon coming out with an ILC built around a smaller sensor - this could be quite a formidable camera. If it’s 4K with dual pixel AF, I don’t see how they’d square it with the Cinema lineup though. The mount may also be significant in terms of Canon’s mirrorless stills camera direction, but to me this camera looks very much like a video camera. http://www.canonrumors.com/patent-lens-mount-adaptor-for-different-flange-distances/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 We have discussed this already, but it didn't have a dedicated thread. This seems like an exciting possibility -especially now that Pocket made the hybrid camera, but with the video first in mind (and not the opposite, like all the rest of the hybrids), a reality - a XC-M camera could be the best of both worlds (and more capable taking pictures), and put Canon first in this new - and non existent yet - category of products. XC ergonomics, with M lenses (the 22mm and the 11-22mm are good) and touch focus DPAF would be good news. Still the M has some obvious problems, just a couple interesting options, no pro lenses at all, many kit zooms and only 7 lenses in total, no other competitive M camera existing - so it is difficult to envision a competitive XC when there aren't any M with great features, and how good it can be, and how cheap, when there is no C100mkIII, and the mkII is still a 35Mbps 1080 camera, and the next one, is a 9000euros 15minutes RAW camera (C200). If Canon was someone else, I would be very excited, but now, it could be a very limited camera, with a very high price (2500-3000euros). Eno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted April 23, 2018 Administrators Share Posted April 23, 2018 It doesn't look like EOS-M mount from the patent images... It's EF. Would be nice if it comes to the market, as long as it is Super 35 and less than £2500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Patent refers to the mounting mechanism, not the body itself. They just used the XC body as an example because they have to use something. The camera that uses the mount (if it is ever made) most likely would have a different body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt James Smith ? Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Mokara said: Patent refers to the mounting mechanism, not the body itself. They just used the XC body as an example because they have to use something. The camera that uses the mount (if it is ever made) most likely would have a different body. I agree the body could be a red herring. But it would be nice if it wasn't ... 3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: It doesn't look like EOS-M mount from the patent images... It's EF. Would be nice if it comes to the market, as long as it is Super 35 and less than £2500. There's a hell of a lot going on in that mount though. It seems like it could be adaptable to EF, EF-S and EF-M. The patent appears to talk about inserting glass in the adapter too. Canon Rumours interpreted this as a teleconverter, but could it be a built-in focal reducer? What if it's a 1-inch sensor like the XC10 and Canon are building just one or two zooms for that sensor in EF-M mount ... but if you switch to the focal reducer and EF mount you get an effective APSC size sensor. Sounds outlandish I know but the mount is pretty far out already ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted April 24, 2018 Administrators Share Posted April 24, 2018 Ah I have finally read the patent. It shows the XC-10 successor with interchangeable lens mount, but still looks like quite a small Super 16mm / 1" sensor inside. They have also tweaked the control scheme of the camera but it retains the rotating grip and fan outlet. The mount... It looks to me like a locking mount adapter. Not sure if it is EOS-M on the camera side or a new mount. On the lens side it appears to be EF. The camera itself is the main take-away from the patent document for me, not just the novel mount! Looks like their GH5 competitor will have XC-10 style form factor and possibly a similar sensor size... I hope it is not smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted April 24, 2018 Administrators Share Posted April 24, 2018 My take on it - https://www.eoshd.com/2018/04/canons-rival-to-the-gh5-leaks/ 7 hours ago, Mokara said: Patent refers to the mounting mechanism, not the body itself. They just used the XC body as an example because they have to use something. The camera that uses the mount (if it is ever made) most likely would have a different body. Nope. Patent refers to "Imaging apparatus" as well - not just the mounting mechanism. It's not the XC10 body anyway. It has multiple ergonomic changes. And I don't think patents work quite like that - the camera body is described in detail, and the functionality of the mount is heavily related to the spec of the body and sensor size, in this case a small sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 They just got that patent a week ago. So what ever it is isn't coming out next week. Interesting that the outermost removable flange has No electrical contacts. Looks like the rest of them do have contacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: They just got that patent a week ago. So what ever it is isn't coming out next week. Interesting that the outermost removable flange has No electrical contacts. Looks like the rest of them do have contacts. Maybe it will take FD lenses as well... ha... now wouldn’t that be pretty damn cool! Mark Romero 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, mercer said: Maybe it will take FD lenses as well... ha... now wouldn’t that be pretty damn cool! Look at figure #34 in the patent. Interesting as hell. Surely the lens separates from that mount? And like @Matt James Smith ? says one of those sections has what appears as glass in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 On another note, probably irrelevant to this patent... I read a few months ago that Canon has some patents for M4/3 lenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, mercer said: On another note, probably irrelevant to this patent... I read a few months ago that Canon has some patents for M4/3 lenses. Wow I think you are right. The lens release on a m4/3 body looks just like the lens release on the outer flange area in those patent pictures. What the hell a m4/3 lens on a XC body?? Christ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Totten Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 What is going on in Canon's head in the past 5 years. These guys are just getting stranger and stranger as the months and years go by. With all the Sony, BlackMagic and Panasonic offerings this year.....why in the Hell would anybody want this thing? What does it bring to the table that is not already better than this thing? Who's super16 sensor is Canon going to use? Will it be a small Canon front side illuminated sensor that is based on 10year old architecture? Canon can get away with lousy large sensor production but there is no way they can challange Sony on small sensor efficiency. Not even close. What off the wall "cripples" will Canon employ on this thing....lemme guess, MJPEG? Ony CFast recording? Even more crop on the sensor? No clean HDMI out? Woah....weird and a sign that Canon is losing their marketing witts. foliovision 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Gentles Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Canon are so incredibly stupid, they could have did this 5 years ago and everyone who had invested in their lenses would have bought into this for eternity! At Canon they have one policy, ie "What's the least we have to do?", because that's what they keep dishing up!! I'm over Canon, they're completely useless and unnecessary now! Eno and foliovision 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 As much as I would like to see an XC10 with a removable lens, given the 1" sensor size I think they took the right decision. Where they messed up was the slow variable aperture. They should have traded range for speed. For any potential interchangeable lens version of the XC series to work, they need to use at least a S35 sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garug Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 For gimbal installations they should make that handle removable with extension cable or wireless connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt James Smith ? Posted April 24, 2018 Author Share Posted April 24, 2018 Here we go - this has to be it. It’s a 4/3 sensor. The “native” lens is just an evolution of the super-zoom on the XC10 - a bit faster, built for a slightly larger sensor and detachable only so EF lenses can be used with the camera. http://thenewcamera.com/canon-working-on-43-format-sensor-and-12-385mm-f1-8-4-0-lens/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NewCamera+(New+Camera) My guess is this will be the only lens using this mount and with it attached the XC20 (or whatever it gets called) will function much the same as the XC10. It’ll be a big lens though right?! Also not sure how they’ll integrate an ND filter - will it be built into the lens itself? One last musing: nutty as a bundled speed booster may seem, it’s actually consistent with Canon’s road map for the XC series. From the start it was Canon’s answer to the BMPCC and GH series (small size, affordable, small sensor, professional image quality) but friendlier to video journalists. The loupe for the LCD screen of the XC10 was their bundled Z-Finder. The only thing it lacked was an interchangeable mount. This camera will be a direct rival to the new Pocket camera. I doubt it’ll have RAW, but it’ll be the one you can just pick up and shoot with confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted April 24, 2018 Administrators Share Posted April 24, 2018 If that is for a Micro Four Thirds sensor then it's a damn impressive lens spec. Very high-end optic. The Olympus 12-100MM F4 remember is the current state of the art zoom for Micro Four Thirds. This is a F1.85 to F4 and it zooms to 385MM?! That is equivalent to 24-770mm in full frame terms. Maybe they are speeding up the aperture with the Speed Booster optic at the back? I'd be tempted to say it is more like the spec you'd find with a high end Super 16mm lens... But 12mm would be 32mm so not quite wide enough. Would have to be 28mm at least. Unless they are using a 2.4x crop sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt James Smith ? Posted April 24, 2018 Author Share Posted April 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: If that is for a Micro Four Thirds sensor then it's a damn impressive lens spec. Very high-end optic. The Olympus 12-100MM F4 remember is the current state of the art zoom for Micro Four Thirds. This is a F1.85 to F4 and it zooms to 385MM?! That is equivalent to 24-770mm in full frame terms. Maybe they are speeding up the aperture with the Speed Booster optic at the back? I'd be tempted to say it is more like the spec you'd find with a high end Super 16mm lens... But 12mm would be 32mm so not quite wide enough. Would have to be 28mm at least. Unless they are using a 2.4x crop sensor. Yeah it's just occurred to me since my last comment quite how insane the zoom range is. I've also just realised the physical size of the lens - 25cm long unextended! That's like putting a lens significantly longer than a 70-200mm on an XC10! I'm now doubting whether it will be the only lens. They would surely have to also offer a more compact lens. Or maybe I'm wrong and it's not for the XC camera. I can't track down the original patent document. Is an image height of 9.74 -10.82mm consistent with an M43 sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted April 24, 2018 Administrators Share Posted April 24, 2018 The Fujinon E-mount lenses are also very long, I'd say it would be a product along those lines. 10mm-ish corresponds to a Micro Four Thirds sensor cropped to 16:9 In 4:3 they are 17x13mm Matt James Smith ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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