Keep 1DX II or get A7III for Video/Photos?

[sam]

For a film project I used an a7sii out to an Atomos (owned and op'd by a guy who works in vfx on a well known u.s. show, so I believe he would know how to get the best out of the cam, but ?) to lend a more modern feel to certain scenes, and he operated the F35 for the remainder.  I played around with the footage in resolve. ( very familiar with slog's sgamut's ,cinegammas etc...)  not even remotely impressed with the footage compared to the F35 (which is just a newer panavision genesis, really, so based on 12 year old tech at the least) except by its high iso capabilities. It was awesome at that. I won't comment any more than that as I haven't put the required time in with the A series.  But, I can say, on the Sonys that I have spent a couple years with now, the mixed lighting is where I feel they struggle most.  I do have to give sony this: they offer a lot of nice specs to throw around forums.  

 I notice the user name snowbro.  If that's a reference to snow and the associated cold, are your gloved fingers going to operate one cam or the other better?  Will the cams perform in sub zero temps day after day? What about heat?  Which cam has the best chance of surviving if you slip and drop a cam in a remote location that cost you thousands to reach?  Which leads me to ask: wouldn't you want a backup cam anyways?  Or is this post more about price?

 

[Django]

20 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

You must have not owned the original A7 and the A7r then, or my A7s. The 1Dx mk II is a Dinosaur in this day and age. A big ass one at that. With Luts, and Resolve Color Science is pretty much a thing of the past. And not Everyone is a huge Canon Color fan anyways. I like Nikon way better.

I've had A7, A7II, A7III, A7S, A7SII. I think I'm pretty familiar with the whole A7 series!! I'd trade any of them for a 1DX2 in a heartbeat. Although kind of apples & watermelon.  

I like Nikon too, they've just been so behind in video, especially AF and no peaking in like the 2 cameras that shoot 4K.. pity really. D750 had awesome sensor/color science.

As for Luts & resolve.. I enjoy it when i can grade creatively.. hate having to fight with every clip just to get normal colors/skintones. Drives me nuts & often time is money.

[Dave Maze]

Just buy a 1DC and call it a day. Use the leftover money to buy some margaritas and lounge back in a chair as you convert MJPG to ProRes all day. 

[DBounce]

10 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said:

Just buy a 1DC and call it a day. Use the leftover money to buy some margaritas and lounge back in a chair as you convert MJPG to ProRes all day. 

Unless he needs the slowmo.

[Simon Young]

Just get the A7rIII and call it a day.

[Dave Maze]

I think Simon is right actually. If money is no object, I would go a7Riii over a7iii. I found the rolling shutter performance especially in the S35 mode to be truly remarkable. The best of any mirrorless Ive ever seen! 

[Simon Young]

30 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said:

I think Simon is right actually. If money is no object, I would go a7Riii over a7iii. I found the rolling shutter performance especially in the S35 mode to be truly remarkable. The best of any mirrorless Ive ever seen! 

Loved your review Dave! Would be awesome to see the whole documentary about the balloon artist. Is that possible?

[Dave Maze]

4 hours ago, Simon Young said:

Loved your review Dave! Would be awesome to see the whole documentary about the balloon artist. Is that possible?

I’ve been so busy with the review channel I haven’t had time to work on it but I really want to. He’s such an inspiring dude! 

[Simon Young]

 

23 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said:

I’ve been so busy with the review channel I haven’t had time to work on it but I really want to. He’s such an inspiring dude! 

Certainly looks promising, super excited to see it. Please notify me when it’s done

 

[kye]

On 24/04/2018 at 8:47 AM, Snowbro said:

Focusing on cinematic work on youtube, but also have a 10k instagram, so I need both video and photos. I get amazing video out of the 1DX II, but there are a few things that bother me. 

1. Workflow: If shooting 4k, I have to transcode and the 4k footage ends up being massive vs the sony (transcode to h.264 looked like junk), 300GB+ for 1 day of shooting 4k. C-Fast cards are also pretty pricey for not much footage. 
2. IBIS: Canon's lack of stabilized lenses is annoying, I want to hand hold some 60p(4k)/120p with some motion. It doesn't always work to stabilize it a little in post. I mostly have to get it on a gimbal, but switching lenses requires re-balancing and is annoying. Then not being able to steady a shot on my knee in 4k for a wide landscape shot is irritating. 
3. Size/Weight travelling: One big thing with the 1DX is; everyone in a 70 yard radius is looking at the camera. It draws a lot of attention, I didn't film a bunch of areas because I didn't want to get robbed. Using the 16-35 2.8 the weight on a crane 2 gimbal feels like it is going to eventually snap in half if you do any movements other than hold it straight up and down. 

Reasons to stay with 1DX II over the Sony:

1. Autofocus: It seems to still be a little better on the Canon for non face tracking scenarios. I would always get some focus breathing regardless of settings when using an a6500 on a gimbal following someone. The Canon autofocus racking is extremely smooth as well, it looks like it was done manually by a pro. 
2. Color: The 1DX II has 8 bit 4:2:2 internal vs the 4:2:0 in the Sony. I don't know how much that matters, but I noticed less banding than on my Sony I had. I know the Sony colors have been improved, but I seriously had some instances in forest type areas with my Sony that I could not get this fluorescent green/yellowish color to correct (flat/erased color data). I would probably create a LUT for the Sony; the Canon looks awesome out of the box and it's easy to do creative grades without the skin tones in highlighted areas getting messed up. 
3. Lenses: The Canon lenses holding many of us hostage haha. I have about $8,000 in L lenses and will only get about $4,000 selling them. The switch to a $2,000 body vs the $6,000 + a few Sony lenses will equate to me having the same amount of money spent as on the 1DX II and the lenses. 

If anyone has experience in this, please let me know your thoughts. I was thinking an A7iii or A7Riii/A7Siii combo when it comes out. It is a hard decision. 

I've spent a while playing the "what camera should I have" game and I realised that the process is about finding out what you already know.

The two questions to answer are:

• What is most important to you in a camera?
• What have you already decided, but are now trying to convince yourself of?

Maybe IQ is the most important thing for you, or maybe it's the experience using it.  If it's IQ, then talk about codecs and IS and 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0 and all that good stuff.  If it's the shooting experience, then work out what your perfect camera looks like and then go find it.

Considering you seem reluctant to shoot with a big expensive camera, I would suggest that you start with a the smallest/cheapest setup possible and then 'upgrade' the setup based on what you need.  eg, for me the logic would be:

• iPhone 8
  No - needs to have zoom capability
• Pocket camera
  No - needs to have directional sound or mic input
• etc.....

This would ensure your setup doesn't include anything you don't need.

[salim]

9 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

I think Simon is right actually. If money is no object, I would go a7Riii over a7iii. I found the rolling shutter performance especially in the S35 mode to be truly remarkable. The best of any mirrorless Ive ever seen! 

Hi @DaveAltizer I’m debating between A7Riii and A7iii 

if the AF for video on A7R3 is as good as A73 especially in the low light for continuous AF for video, I’ll get the A7R3. I take a lot of photos for large prints and I like the resolution. I’m getting the A7xxx for video. I’ll be using it on gimbal so I need a reliable AF. If A7R3 video is not as good I get the A73 and bring along my D810. Which is a pain to carry two systems.

would appreciate sharing your experience. Thanks!

[Robert Collins]

43 minutes ago, salim said:

Hi @DaveAltizer I’m debating between A7Riii and A7iii 

if the AF for video on A7R3 is as good as A73 especially in the low light for continuous AF for video, I’ll get the A7R3. I take a lot of photos for large prints and I like the resolution. I’m getting the A7xxx for video. I’ll be using it on gimbal so I need a reliable AF. If A7R3 video is not as good I get the A73 and bring along my D810. Which is a pain to carry two systems.

would appreciate sharing your experience. Thanks!

Hi Salim,

I am in a vaguely similar position in that I am debating whether to buy a second A7r3 or an A7iii as back up for my existing a7R3, (Actually I would like an A9 with picture profiles but that doesnt sound very likely.)

If you happen to be addicted to high resolution sensors (like me) I wouldnt hesitate a minute in buying the A7r3. The video autofocus is really good. I dont know if the A7iii is better (because I havent tried it) but it doesnt seem noticeably better. Obviously the biggest loss by buying an A7riii over an A7iii is the money

[salim]

27 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

If you happen to be addicted to high resolution sensors (like me) I wouldnt hesitate a minute in buying the A7r3

Hi @Robert Collins - thanks for input!  
Yes, I am addicted to high res. I often shoot multi-row panos with my Nikon D800e/D810 and prior to that with my Canon. I often (depending on the subject and how fast the light is changing) shoot between 100 megapixels to close to 1 gigapixels. So, I'm leaning towards the A7Riii. On fred miranda, I learned about Greentoe and some people told me they got their A7Riii for about $3-400 below MSRP. That makes the price differential not that bad, and I know I'll miss the 30-40 megapixels image size. I'm just waiting for a solid in depth side-by-side video autofocus comparison. The alternative is to buy both the A7riii and A7iii and shoot two camera at once for a short movie I am planning to shoot. This way I have a backup and get both to shoot the dialogues for both sides, etc. Only reason I do not want to do that, is I love the color from my Nikon and I'm just hoping the D850 sensor will end up in a mirrorless in a few months or even canon might do something out of character and release a really competitive 4k camera. 

I have a few of my panos here but I have a ton that I need to gradually upload, https://www.eyeem.com/u/photojournalist

 

Thanks, again!!!

[Gregormannschaft]

1 hour ago, salim said:

Hi @Robert Collins - thanks for input!  
Yes, I am addicted to high res. I often shoot multi-row panos with my Nikon D800e/D810 and prior to that with my Canon. I often (depending on the subject and how fast the light is changing) shoot between 100 megapixels to close to 1 gigapixels. So, I'm leaning towards the A7Riii. On fred miranda, I learned about Greentoe and some people told me they got their A7Riii for about $3-400 below MSRP. That makes the price differential not that bad, and I know I'll miss the 30-40 megapixels image size. I'm just waiting for a solid in depth side-by-side video autofocus comparison. The alternative is to buy both the A7riii and A7iii and shoot two camera at once for a short movie I am planning to shoot. This way I have a backup and get both to shoot the dialogues for both sides, etc. Only reason I do not want to do that, is I love the color from my Nikon and I'm just hoping the D850 sensor will end up in a mirrorless in a few months or even canon might do something out of character and release a really competitive 4k camera. 

I have a few of my panos here but I have a ton that I need to gradually upload, https://www.eyeem.com/u/photojournalist

 

Thanks, again!!!

Terrific shots in there. How do you find EyeEm? I have a few friends who work there and even their smartphone pics seem to sell.

[Dave Maze]

11 hours ago, salim said:

Hi @DaveAltizer I’m debating between A7Riii and A7iii 

if the AF for video on A7R3 is as good as A73 especially in the low light for continuous AF for video, I’ll get the A7R3. I take a lot of photos for large prints and I like the resolution. I’m getting the A7xxx for video. I’ll be using it on gimbal so I need a reliable AF. If A7R3 video is not as good I get the A73 and bring along my D810. Which is a pain to carry two systems.

would appreciate sharing your experience. Thanks!

If you need high res then def go for a7riii. The a7riii IS a better camera than the a7iii for video in almost every way (a7iii has sharper full frame 4k). But is it worth the price?....if you only shoot video...absolutely not. If you need high resolution stills....there is nothing on the market that comes close. 

SO if you were buying an a7riii for ONLY video...I would say NO...go for the a7iii. But for both. totally go for it

[Mark Romero 2]

5 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said:

The a7riii IS a better camera than the a7iii for video in almost every way...

Dave: Can you kindly elaborate on why you feel this way? Thanks in advance.

[Young]

2 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Dave: Can you kindly elaborate on why you feel this way? Thanks in advance.

Forgive me for interrupting but I have used both cameras: The a7riii has less rolling shutter, better motion cadence (imho), a better noise reduction algorithm which reduces ghosting outside of the log-gammas and it's easier to pull manual focus due to the better EVF and screen. If you like sharpness in full frame, then the a7iii is better of course, but sharpness is, as we know, a bourgeois concept.

[Mark Romero 2]

43 minutes ago, Young said:

...but sharpness is, as we know, a bourgeois concept.

So you are saying I should not feel bad that people think I am not very sharp...

Thanks for the other points about the a7R III vs a7 III

[Dave Maze]

43 minutes ago, Young said:

Forgive me for interrupting but I have used both cameras: The a7riii has less rolling shutter, better motion cadence (imho), a better noise reduction algorithm which reduces ghosting outside of the log-gammas and it's easier to pull manual focus due to the better EVF and screen. If you like sharpness in full frame, then the a7iii is better of course, but sharpness is, as we know, a bourgeois concept.

@Mark Romero 2

What he said.

[Mark Romero 2]

@Young

@DaveAltizer

Do we know if there is a much of a difference for dynamic range between the a7 III and the a7R III?

And isn't it the a7R III that is better in crop mode instead of FF mode? or am I confused about this...