Guerrilla shooters? (this thread is not about hunting..)

[Django]

7 hours ago, kye said:

If you have a day job then maybe you do have deep pockets.  I am an office worker who has worked in the head office of many companies and I think that about 1% of office workers own a 5dIII to take pictures of their kids.  There's a cashed up tech savvy middle class out there...

If I was shooting indoor vlogs with the camera on a tripod I would consider an ex cinema camera if it had good IQ and codecs.

[Edit: I didn't realise that an Alexa Mini was *that* expensive.  I don't think office workers would own one of those!!]

 

Yes it's quite a leap from a 5D to an Amira/Alexa, hence my skepticism towards means of affordability.. especially for hobbyists shooting kids!!!

FYI most current ARRI cams are in the hands of rental houses, hollywood studios & tv/film/production companies.

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Sure, as a percentage of videos on YouTube it wouldn't be anything at all. But as a gross number? It would be huge! Every single day of the year without fail there would be content destined eventually for YouTube that is being shot with an ARRI. 

Because if you spin some deals it can indeed be dirt cheap to shoot on an ARRI if you really wish to. 

I'm on the third week of an ultra low budget feature film which is being shot on an AMIRA. You can see it in the background of quite a few of my recent uploads, such as today's:

 

 

sounds cool, care to elaborate?  

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Django said:

sounds cool, care to elaborate?

Shoot off season, have full insurance, tell them only experienced professionals will touch it. 

[jonpais]

seriously?

[mercer]

Idk, I think we need to define (or redefine) ultra low budget feature if an Amira is being used to shoot it.

[jonpais]

redefining family movies!  

[mercer]

Man, if I had a family, I would make an epic John Hughes-esque family comedy/thriller at Great Adventure. Everybody would just think I was an overexuberant Dad shooting my kids for family videos. Now that would be guerrilla shooting... but NO I would not use an Amira, or an Alexa... maybe a Siri though.

Even better, I’d take the whole family on a cruise and make a found footage film. Give each member an iPhone and create some kind of silly found footage plot... and then I could write off the vacation as a business expense. 

[IronFilm]

54 minutes ago, mercer said:

Idk, I think we need to define (or redefine) ultra low budget feature if an Amira is being used to shoot it.

Anything that costs less than a nice new car is definitely ultra low budget. 

 

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

seriously?

The DoP believes the production got it from Panavision for free for three weeks. 

I'm very skeptical, I personally reckon they are paying "something" but it is an extremely good deal such as say a one day rental. 

[mercer]

14 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Anything that costs less than a nice new car is definitely ultra low budget. 

It’s my understanding these phrases such as “ultra low budget” equates to something like this...

$0-$1000 = zero budget

$1000-$10,000 = no budget

$10,000-$50,000 = micro budget 

$50,000-$500,000 = low budget 

Either way, it’s all just semantics, and probably irrelevant to this post.

But I will add... I don’t know if I really understand why somebody would spend the time and money, with the state of indie film distribution being the way it is, on anything over $50,000... unless you have some kind of name attached to the project?

[jonpais]

strange, all this talk about Reds and Arris in a post about family pictures.

[IronFilm]

40 minutes ago, mercer said:

 

But I will add... I don’t know if I really understand why somebody would spend the time and money, with the state of indie film distribution being the way it is, on anything over $50,000... unless you have some kind of name attached to the project?

By NZ's standards we have a few very minor "names" attached to it. 

[HockeyFan12]

11 hours ago, kye said:

I'm a little confused..  are you saying that you shoot productions with scripts, boards, and lights, but don't have budget for locations?

If you're doing all that and trying to not get noticed / hassled then wow - good luck to you!

Locations permits (often) run in the thousands each and require production insurance in the first place, which is another thousand dollars. That makes shooting non-commercial work a lot less fun when it's more expensive for one day on location than to buy the camera you're shooting with!

I don’t think having a script and boards is abnormal, I thought everyone here did! It's a filmmaking community,  after all. I was drawn into the hobby by narrative and by an interest in acting originally, but that's subsided since don't like being on camera much it turns out. The script is my main interest now, even though it's often an excuse to try out new gear. I thought most people here were shooting narrative, but I suppose there are a lot of documentary shooters, too, and corporate video shooters.

 

1 hour ago, mercer said:

It’s my understanding these phrases such as “ultra low budget” equates to something like this...

$0-$1000 = zero budget

$1000-$10,000 = no budget

$10,000-$50,000 = micro budget 

$50,000-$500,000 = low budget 

Either way, it’s all just semantics, and probably irrelevant to this post.

But I will add... I don’t know if I really understand why somebody would spend the time and money, with the state of indie film distribution being the way it is, on anything over $50,000... unless you have some kind of name attached to the project?

My understanding (based on SAG rates) has been that ultra low budget is under $625,000 and low budget is between $625,000 and $2.5 million, but there's lots of budget manipulation so it's usually in fact higher.

Either way it's semantics. I'd fall into the no budget/guerrilla camp.

Also I agree with the sentiment that an Alexa is A) not that expensive–you can rent a mini here for $250/day, less than the cheapest location fee, and B) not materially different from an F3 for most purposes. If it doesn't look amazing on an F3 it's not going to look amazing on an Alexa, you might just have a little more highlight detail and a better texture and less skew. (And better high frame rate options, but worse low light.)

Anyhow, I can sere why some of my opinions have rubbed people the wrong way recently, I made some incorrect assumptions about the community and their needs. I get now that image quality is of more importance to other people than it is to me, so my advice isn't helpful, and might lead people down the wrong path. To that extent, I should just get back to writing and not arguing over camera specs. My apologies. 

[fuzzynormal]

5 hours ago, mercer said:

and then I could write off the vacation as a business expense. 

Always seems like a good idea until you try it.

4 hours ago, mercer said:

$0-$1000 = zero budget

$1000-$10,000 = no budget

Looks like I'm 1 and 2.  Although...what's the difference?

[kye]

10 hours ago, jonpais said:

redefining family movies!  

Quite significantly it would seem!!

9 hours ago, mercer said:

Even better, I’d take the whole family on a cruise and make a found footage film. Give each member an iPhone and create some kind of silly found footage plot... and then I could write off the vacation as a business expense. 

CONGRATULATIONS!!  You are now the official editor of all of my home videos!!

Just tell me how I get all my footage to you - I think I have about 4Tb so far :D

7 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

Locations permits (often) run in the thousands each and require production insurance in the first place, which is another thousand dollars. That makes shooting non-commercial work a lot less fun when it's more expensive for one day on location than to buy the camera you're shooting with!

I don’t think having a script and boards is abnormal, I thought everyone here did! It's a filmmaking community,  after all. I was drawn into the hobby by narrative and by an interest in acting originally, but that's subsided since don't like being on camera much it turns out. The script is my main interest now, even though it's often an excuse to try out new gear. I thought most people here were shooting narrative, but I suppose there are a lot of documentary shooters, too, and corporate video shooters.

I am not sure how many people here shoot with what levels of planning, hmmm, maybe I'll start a poll.  

I shoot with an equipment checklist and no plan.  Obviously there is planning for a day out at a fair, or for a family holiday, or a trip somewhere, but there is nothing beyond that.

I shoot what happens, when it happens, with no intervention.  I try and shoot so that I have enough footage to make a coherent story in post, so I try and concentrate on establishing shots (which I'm quite forgetful at), transition shots (normally us moving between locations), and then the shots of interest.  

4 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Looks like I'm 1 and 2.  Although...what's the difference?

about $1000! 

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

I don’t think having a script and boards is abnormal, I thought everyone here did

The feature I'm working on now, has a script (which seems to be in a constant state of flux...). But no story boards. 

 

 

10 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

My understanding (based on SAG rates) has been that ultra low budget is under $625,000 and low budget is between $625,000 and $2.5 million, but there's lots of budget manipulation so it's usually in fact higher.

 

Exactly. Even a hundred grand would still be ultra low budget. 

If you're talking say sub $10K , then I would just call that as "No budget", as it is merely a rounding error. 

 

 

[kye]

Peter McKinnon leading the way once again by taking YT videos up a notch by taking the selfie stick concept and inventing the Canadian Cinema Stick....

Yes, that's a C200, and yes, he uses it while riding an electric skateboard.

Now the BMPCC4K doesn't seem quite so extreme  

[christrad]

My guerilla short :

 

[Don Kotlos]

I think "Guerrilla shooters" describes most people that are here and use cheap mirrorless and dslr cameras to create an image  

[HockeyFan12]

At least you have a shot list I'd assume? How does the AD schedule the day without one? 

For me it's about efficiency. If I don't have much in the way of time or resources I need to make up for it to whatever extent possible by planning. Maybe the increase in efficiency is partially imagined and but I take comfort in having a plan.

The most talented amateurs I know have regular helpers or crew members and do better work than I do by far. I'm not advocating for storyboarding, I just figured it was common on guerrilla shoots to get around the limitations. 

My videos are right between guerrilla and family/home movies, but with stories. I think the appeal is having friends and family in something that tries to feel like an old "movie." So I hire a sound guy or bring on an actor or two when I can. I even wanted to try getting something into a festival (or amateur online festival) some day. 

I've been too busy with work to finish any videos this year, though. Now I'm feeling foolish for posturing here when my needs are less than others' and perhaps I'm just insecure about that and trying to recommend things that are "good enough" for me as though they're good enough for everyone else. As I write this, I'm eyeing a C200 on craigslist.

I think I'll take some time off posting until I finish this next video. Still working on the script and I am going to try a storyboarding approach (and will post here if it turns out well). But in the future maybe I'll try mixing in other approaches, too.

 

[IronFilm]

5 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

At least you have a shot list I'd assume? How does the AD schedule the day without one? 

Shockingly on the film I just wrapped on yesterday, we didn't have an AD (well, technically we had one.....  but practically speaking? nah)

[kye]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Shockingly on the film I just wrapped on yesterday, we didn't have an AD (well, technically we had one.....  but practically speaking? nah)

When my sister was in film school I helped out on a few sets where the AD was present in name only....  you'd hope that once people start getting paid that things would improve!!