Audio Recorders?

[sanveer]

10 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Your cops must be a hell of a lot more bored than mine. 
Where are you, the USA? I've heard of how the USA is becoming more of a "police state", but come on that is just ridiculous! 

I guess this is the same in most parts of the world. A boom pole, regardless of the budget, would draw crowds at most places. And cops are always looking for someone to make a quickbuck off. You could say film students if you don't look too old. 

 

[Don Kotlos]

Just now, sanveer said:

I guess this is the same in most parts of the world. A boom pole, regardless of the budget, would draw crowds at most places. And cops are always looking for someone to make a quickbuck off. You could say film students if you don't look too old. 

In the US you don't have a problem of getting a citation. Its more likely you will get shot 

[mercer]

22 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Your cops must be a hell of a lot more bored than mine. 
Where are you, the USA? I've heard of how the USA is becoming more of a "police state", but come on that is just ridiculous! 

It’s always been that way. Back in the early 2000s, my friend was shooting a short film with a TRV-70, deep in the middle of a state forest. And we got stopped and told to leave because we needed permits. At that time we were young enough to say we were making a student film for school... he didn’t care.

I’ve been shooting mostly B-Roll for my film in public thus far. But I usually will have my Olympus Recorder and the Rode Video Micro on camera to catch ambient sounds. And just having the dead cat of the small Video Micro has gotten me looks from cops. And passers by will stop to ask what I’m shooting. Hell, using a monopod draws unwanted attention. A tripod would probably get me stopped by cops. Hell, I bet a gimbal would even get me stopped. I specifically went out and bought the Canon 28mm 1.8 lens so I could go handheld with a neck strap for those scenes.

Luckily I’ve designed the film/script in a way to take all of this into account so a body recorder will most likely be the safest option as I don’t have many scenes requiring dialogue in public.

With that being said, I don’t have the budget to get a couple Tascam Lav Recorders and a field recorder, so I am trying to put together something that I can use with a regular mic on a mic stand or a boom when I have the privacy to shoot the longer dialogue scenes in private. I may be able to wrangle together enough for 2 Tascam Lav Recorders and maybe a DR-40, But is the DR-40 just a waste of money and it would be better getting a couple Zoom F1s? They seem to be getting pretty good reviews.

[IronFilm]

Go for the newer DR60Dmk2 over the old DR40

And if you don't have money for both a field recorder and bodypack recorders, then just get the bodypack recorders (and go for DR10L over F1). As it seems it is better suited for your needs. (and sacrifice a goat on a hilltop at full moon to the gods, in the hope everything will go well, as you're essentially shooting this deaf without monitoring what you're doing)

[Mark Romero 2]

11 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

In the US you don't have a problem of getting a citation. Its more likely you will get shot 

True. Cops are always confusing boom poles for a pack of mentos...

[IronFilm]

Pro tip when passing through airports, or interacting with cops in general, do not refer to your BOOM pole or your SHOTGUN mic. 
(but me being me, I've done both of these things)

[mercer]

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Go for the newer DR60Dmk2 over the old DR40

And if you don't have money for both a field recorder and bodypack recorders, then just get the bodypack recorders (and go for DR10L over F1). As it seems it is better suited for your needs. (and sacrifice a goat on a hilltop at full moon to the gods, in the hope everything will go well, as you're essentially shooting this deaf without monitoring what you're doing)

Why the DR10L over the F1? The F1 seems to be more flexible if I wanted to plug a different mic into it or use one of their modular set ups for something later on?

Also, I know you aren’t a fan of the H series Zoom recorders, but if you were forced to use one, which one would you use?

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, mercer said:

Why the DR10L over the F1? The F1 seems to be more flexible if I wanted to plug a different mic into it or use one of their modular set ups for something later on?

The F1 is fundamentally a bodyback recorder, everything else is a bit gimmicky, and in my eyes the DR10L (or DR10CS) is clearly a better choice as a bodypack recorder. 

 

3 hours ago, mercer said:

Also, I know you aren’t a fan of the H series Zoom recorders, but if you were forced to use one, which one would you use?

H6.

But why buy it when the Zoom F4 is shockingly only one hundred dollars more? Seriously, that is insanely crazy cheap when in context like that!!! wtf, as the F4 and H6 are galaxies apart, as the F4 is so far ahead. You'd almost wonder if they're made by the same company or not... :-P  (for sure if they had the "Sound Devices" brand name on them but otherwise the same, you'd find people heaping praise on them!)

Or the Tascam DR70D / Marantz PMD706 can be found cheaper, and are much more ergonomically bag friendly (than the H6) for a boom op juggling all the jobs in their department. 

[Kisaha]

3 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

The F1 is fundamentally a bodyback recorder, everything else is a bit gimmicky, and in my eyes the DR10L (or DR10CS) is clearly a better choice as a bodypack recorder. 

 

If you go for a bodyback recorder (I don't even know what that was until now!), as well go with the most optimum one, which is the DR10 series. In some events, when I do camera and we have no sound man, we depend on a couple of those and they have delivered so far.

If you ( @mercer ) want to buy the F1, then I am sure it is an amazing piece of equipment. You certainly know better your needs. I wouldn't buy that either, it is trying too hard to be a couple (even three) of things, and it misses in all of them, but it's your money, and your film, and it is very important to be happy with our purchases, a boost in spirit maybe is more important than a boost in sound!

[BTM_Pix]

The upside to the F1 is that the 10 pin port doesn't only take their microphones (which aren't exactly stellar lets be honest) but it also takes the EXH6 module which will give you 2 XLR inputs. Thats a big differentiator here.

It also acts as a USB audio interface as well which means that you could have better mic inputs to your computer or tablet should you need them.

That makes it a very neat modular little system to me that offers more versatility than the Tascam.

However.....

If all you want is the lav recorder aspect then the Tascam is smaller but crucially also offers the dual level recording function that the Zoom doesn't. 

That final part could swing it if you are working on your own and trying to work fast.

 

[mercer]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

The upside to the F1 is that the 10 pin port doesn't only take their microphones (which aren't exactly stellar lets be honest) but it also takes the EXH6 module which will give you 2 XLR inputs. Thats a big differentiator here.

It also acts as a USB audio interface as well which means that you could have better mic inputs to your computer or tablet should you need them.

That makes it a very neat modular little system to me that offers more versatility than the Tascam.

However.....

If all you want is the lav recorder aspect then the Tascam is smaller but crucially also offers the dual level recording function that the Zoom doesn't. 

That final part could swing it if you are working on your own and trying to work fast.

 

That’s exactly what I was looking at the F1 for. I may get the XLR attachment at a later date. It doesn’t provide phantom power, but some mics won’t need that. As an all in one device it seems more useful than the Tascam plus it seems to have a better build quality. 

[mercer]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

The F1 is fundamentally a bodyback recorder, everything else is a bit gimmicky, and in my eyes the DR10L (or DR10CS) is clearly a better choice as a bodypack recorder. 

 

H6.

But why buy it when the Zoom F4 is shockingly only one hundred dollars more? Seriously, that is insanely crazy cheap when in context like that!!! wtf, as the F4 and H6 are galaxies apart, as the F4 is so far ahead. You'd almost wonder if they're made by the same company or not... :-P  (for sure if they had the "Sound Devices" brand name on them but otherwise the same, you'd find people heaping praise on them!)

Or the Tascam DR70D / Marantz PMD706 can be found cheaper, and are much more ergonomically bag friendly (than the H6) for a boom op juggling all the jobs in their department. 

Well, a refurbished H6 can be had for $288 and the F4, when on sale, is around $500... so that’s a pretty substantial difference.

I can pretty much guarantee that I’ll never have an audio department so the F4, although a better investment, would be wasted on me. So if I go with a field recorder, it really needs to fit in the palm of my hands.

More than likely, I will buy a DR10L and an F1 and do a side by side test to see which I like better. My Olympus was built for nature recordings, so I could always keep one of them for Foley and ambient sounds.

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

If you go for a bodyback recorder (I don't even know what that was until now!), as well go with the most optimum one, which is the DR10 series. In some events, when I do camera and we have no sound man, we depend on a couple of those and they have delivered so far.

If you ( @mercer ) want to buy the F1, then I am sure it is an amazing piece of equipment. You certainly know better your needs. I wouldn't buy that either, it is trying too hard to be a couple (even three) of things, and it misses in all of them, but it's your money, and your film, and it is very important to be happy with our purchases, a boost in spirit maybe is more important than a boost in sound!

Well I asked for advice because I am not the most knowledgeable audio person. But sometimes on this forum people ask an A or B question and get a C answer.

For instance why is the DR10L better than the F1... are the preamps better? Is the F1 noisier?

I know some guys who record really high end audio dramas with H4s... if the H Series sucks, then why specifically does it suck and why would these guys use it?

I always try to learn a little by asking some questions.

[BTM_Pix]

21 minutes ago, mercer said:

That’s exactly what I was looking at the F1 for. I may get the XLR attachment at a later date. It doesn’t provide phantom power, but some mics won’t need that. As an all in one device it seems more useful than the Tascam plus it seems to have a better build quality. 

Yes, I thought you were using it with NTG2's so you wouldn't need the phantom power.

But I may have dreamt that.

[mercer]

Btw, I appreciate the time people take answering questions and am not trying to be difficult here. 

Just now, BTM_Pix said:

Yes, I thought you were using it with NTG2's so you wouldn't need the phantom power.

But I may have dreamt that.

Yeah, I will be, I just mentioned that it was one negative with the XLR module. I’m just confused because I have read very positive reviews on the F1, but it seems I am gettting a different story here.

[BTM_Pix]

5 minutes ago, mercer said:

I’m just confused because I have read very positive reviews on the F1, but it seems I am gettting a different story here.

My reading of it is that purely as a lav recorder the Tascam edges it because of the size, single battery and dual recording.

The F1 can be a bit more of a swiss army knife and do things the Tascam can't but the Tascam is the better knife. 

 

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The upside to the F1 is that the 10 pin port doesn't only take their microphones (which aren't exactly stellar lets be honest) but it also takes the EXH6 module which will give you 2 XLR inputs. Thats a big differentiator here.

Nah, not really at all, because it doesn't provide phantom power. Sooooo.... you'd still need to lug in something like say a MixPreD, defeating the entire purpose of trying to use the EXH6?! Or at least in that situation. 

Having said that, I do indeed own a EXH6, as it is quite useful for a totally different purpose (accessing 5/6 on the F4).

 

18 minutes ago, mercer said:

I’m just confused because I have read very positive reviews on the F1, but it seems I am gettting a different story here.

"Reviews" be default tend to be quite positive, especially when it is a flashy new toy. 

And yeah, people get wowed by its "swiss army knife" nature. Yet in reality I think it would have been better off if it tried to do just one thing WELL, and take head on the DR10L/PDR. 

 

 

27 minutes ago, mercer said:

For instance why is the DR10L better than the F1...

Smaller, size is everything with a bodypack recorder. 
Also no safety track. (arguably essential if you're unable to monitor the audio!)

A deadly double blow to the F1.

 

28 minutes ago, mercer said:

Well, a refurbished H6 can be had for $288 and the F4, when on sale, is around $500... so that’s a pretty substantial difference.

New the H6 is $350, new the F4 at B&H is $450. That difference is nothing when you think about what a steal the F4 is. 

 

[BTM_Pix]

3 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Nah, not really at all, because it doesn't provide phantom power. Sooooo.... you'd still need to lug in something like say a MixPreD, defeating the entire purpose of trying to use the EXH6?! Or at least in that situation. 
 

For his NTG2s that he was going to use it with I meant.

As a matter of interest, can the F4 provide phantom power through the EXH6?

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

It also acts as a USB audio interface as well which means that you could have better mic inputs to your computer or tablet should you need them.

Or just pick up the Behringer UMC22 for twenty bucks ish. 

 

11 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

As a matter of interest, can the F4 provide phantom power through the EXH6?

No. Neither can the F8 (in fact it seems like it would always be an entirely dumb idea to use the EXH6 with the F8! As you loose two tracks. Maybe the F8n would allow 10 channel recording... I'd hope so!)

 

43 minutes ago, mercer said:

I know some guys who record really high end audio dramas with H4s...

I'm 100% positive some part of that sentence is false. 

Citation please. 

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. 

 

[mercer]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

I'm 100% positive some part of that sentence is false. 

Well one of my friends (and actors I use) has recorded his parts in Edict Zero on an H4. But yes, I am unsure what the main creator uses. My friend has also been in The Fall and a few other high quality audio dramas and there hasn’t been any issues with his recordings. Of course he built his own sound booth, so it’s obviously not the same thing as field recording.

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, mercer said:

Well one of my friends (and actors I use) has recorded his parts in Edict Zero on an H4

https://edictzero.wordpress.com

Ah right, I glossed over the word *audio* in "audio dramas". 

That was an unexpected twist, because this is not exactly relevant to what we're discussing here, which is audio for picture.