Audio Recorders?

[photographer-at-large]

On 6/24/2020 at 2:52 PM, photographer-at-large said:

new Zoom H6 with 32-bit float 🤞

https://www.instagram.com/p/CB0oDiQhyIJ/

How ugly:

https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-h8-handy-recorder

[IronFilm]

36 minutes ago, photographer-at-large said:

How ugly:

https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-h8-handy-recorder

Am not sure about "ugly", but it definitely is...  "unique" looking. 

Of course from my perspective it falls far short of the Zoom F Series. (even though it has a higher track count than even the F8n)

But for many users they'll see this as "the best Zoom H Series ever".

And it does have some unique features, such as: sound pads! ("The PODCAST App makes producing your podcast simple. With dedicated Sound Pads, use the touch screen to trigger sound effects, music beds and more. Choose from 13 high quality sounds or load your own via an SD card.")

Also, I noticed it has a Noise Gate feature. Does this indicate the Zoom F Series might in the future get a firmware update for free which is a "low budget variant of the Sound Devices NoiseAssist plugin"?? I hope so.
 

[sanveer]

2 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Am not sure about "ugly", but it definitely is...  "unique" looking. 

Of course from my perspective it falls far short of the Zoom F Series. 

But for many users they'll see this as "the best Zoom H Series ever".

And it does have some unique features, such as: sound pads! ("The PODCAST App makes producing your podcast simple. With dedicated Sound Pads, use the touch screen to trigger sound effects, music beds and more. Choose from 13 high quality sounds or load your own via an SD card.")

Also, I noticed it has a Noise Gate feature. Does this indicate the Zoom F Series might in the future get a firmware update for free which is a "low budget variant of the Sound Devices NoiseAssist plugin"?? I hope so.
 

It now gets upto 20 hours of life from 4 x AA batteries. 

If it has so many inputs, could monitoring have been made easier? Maybe that's on the app(s)? 

[KnightsFan]

Those new capsules look fairly interesting. It would be neat if Zoom transitioned to a modular recorder system, without compromising quality, durability and form factor. Being able to just add 4 more XLR's with phantom power, or an ambisonic capsule, is actually pretty cool. They're in a position to make a Zoom F1 sequal that is small enough to be a beltpack recorder, has remote triggering from bluetooth, but can also turn into a recorder with 4-5 XLR inputs when needed. That would be great for people at my budget/skill level who need a swiss army knife for lots of different uses.

Since their new capsule can do 4 tracks apparently, it would be nice to see some capsules with, say, two XLRs plus stereo mics, though I don't know how many people would ever use those. I wonder if it's bi-directional? Could they make an output module for live mixing?

It seems like they've put some effort into improving their OS as well. Touchscreen control is... not ideal, but moving towards a modern UI with more functionality is a good direction. When they say it's app based, I assume there are no 3rd party apps--but it would be REALLY interesting if they could get a Tentacle Sync app.

[Ty Harper]

Anybody know whether that exh-8 capsule will work on the F4/8 series?

[gethin]

I have a knackered old tascam that's about 10 years old. It's falling apart. I did a whole bunch of research yesterday. The dr40x looked like a good replacement until I saw a review that said the noise floor is awful. 

I don't really want to spend $600aud on this zoom it's total overkill for me, and the cheaper zooms seem to be a bit long in the tooth.  (Lots of posts of people bitching about the bootup time). Is there anything under $200 that is ok?

In fact on that note if I'm spending $600 wouldn't splurging on the ninja v (I have Nikon z6) be more sensible? I know it's only got 3.5mm in, but all my current sound kit is 3.5 anyway (lavs, rode video micro and their wireless doodad)

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

Anybody know whether that exh-8 capsule will work on the F4/8 series?

I don't think so. 
And if it does work, then you'd definitely need first a firmware update for the F4/F8/F8n to get the maximum out of it. (as heck, even at the moment the Zoom EXH-6 is pointless on the F8n! As it doesn't add any extra tracks to it, just replaces others. I was quite disappointed by this, oh well)

[IronFilm]

36 minutes ago, gethin said:

I don't really want to spend $600aud on this zoom it's total overkill for me, and the cheaper zooms seem to be a bit long in the tooth.  (Lots of posts of people bitching about the bootup time). Is there anything under $200 that is ok?

From my personal perspective, no. 
Go for the MixPre / F Series, the leap up from everything underneath it is so huge!
Imagine if we live in a world where you could buy a Canon C300mk3 for only a five hundred extra bucks more than what the latest 5D cost, would anybody recommend a 5D for specifically filmmaking any longer? Nope! (well, except for some niche exceptions)

That's what it is like in the audio world for filmmaking once the Zoom F Series was released! (and is why Sound Devices had to respond with their MixPre range)

In a way the Zoom F8 was the "HDSLR Revolution" for us aspiring PSMs, just like the D90/5Dmk2/T2i/GH1 was. No point fussing around compromising with a "cheap" EX1 and a Letus35 adapter when you can get a 5Dmk2/GH1/etc cheap instead! 

But if I was absolutely 110% restricted to a sub $200 budget, then I'd get a Tascam DR60Dmk2. 

 

42 minutes ago, gethin said:

In fact on that note if I'm spending $600 wouldn't splurging on the ninja v (I have Nikon z6) be more sensible? I know it's only got 3.5mm in, but all my current sound kit is 3.5 anyway (lavs, rode video micro and their wireless doodad)

No, video recorders are not made with audio recording in mind. 

(with the exception of the Video Devices range of video recorders, but that's because they're a brand created by Sound Devices!!)

[newfoundmass]

It's not under $200 but I've been very happy with the Zoom H6 overall. 

[gethin]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

It's not under $200 but I've been very happy with the Zoom H6 overall. 

Is the boot up time reasonable?

 

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

But if I was absolutely 110% restricted to a sub $200 budget, then I'd get a Tascam DR60Dmk2. 

I read that you get like 2 hours battery which might drive me a bit bonkers. I really like having the mics onboard too.  So I hear what you're saying but I very rarely shoot people and never drama. For me it's the occasional talking head, so a "proper" recorder feels a bit like a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  I used to be more than happy going straight into the gh5, but my z6 sounds like crap (even I can hear that lol).  For running and gunning my kit that gets used most is the quickest and simplest to setup.  

One of the tascams (I forget which) can record from the onboard mics and external at the same time. That sounds like good feature for me. 

 

 

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, gethin said:

I read that you get like 2 hours battery which might drive me a bit bonkers.

Been a few years since I've used Tascam DR60D so I can't remember exactly how long the AA batteries lasted me then, but all you needed to do is slap a USB powerbank on it and your worries are over. Although, it took a firmware update first:

http://ironfilm.co.nz/firmware-update-for-tascam-dr-60d-mk1-fixes-recording-interruptions-when-running-on-external-usb-power-packs/

However, you don't need to do even that for the newer DR60Dmk2, works out of the box. 
 

3 hours ago, gethin said:

So I hear what you're saying but I very rarely shoot people and never drama. For me it's the occasional talking head, so a "proper" recorder feels a bit like a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

For an ultra low budget talking head IVs, get this basic sound package:
Oktava MK012 HC
Deity S Mic 2 kit (get the kit, so you get the shockmount and wind protection for cheap too)
C Stand & sandbag
Boom Buddy
Boom Pole (even an Alu pole would be fine, as you're never holding it. Although I'd usually always recommend a carbonfibre pole)
Secondhand UWP-D11 / G3
Tascam DR60Dmk2 (but absolutely do stretch to a F4/F6/MixPre3 if you can)

For when you're shooting handheld, keep it basic and just have a V-Mic D3 Pro on the camera. 

[gethin]

Thanks man for the advice.  I'll have to squirell it away though for when I have a couple of grand lying around.  This process started with me wanting to replace a $70 recorder 😆 

I get it though, its like when someone asks me what $200 camera to buy and I end up suggesting a s1h or a7r4 😁

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, gethin said:

I'll have to squirell it away though for when I have a couple of grand lying around. 

Add up what I suggested, it still is cheaper than merely just what your camera body by itself cost! (let alone your entire camera kit)

So in context, the price is very reasonably frugal and in proportion. (if anything... it's too cheap! And out of proportion in not being enough)
 

2 hours ago, gethin said:

I get it though, its like when someone asks me what $200 camera to buy and I end up suggesting a s1h or a7r4 😁

Yup! Indeed, it's like that

Although I say it is more accurately like someone asking "what sub $100 camera to get and you recommend a secondhand Panasonic G7 or even G6 with Chinese CCTV C Mount lenses".

As I'm definitely not suggesting anything like a S1H!! And often there simply are no good sub $100 (or $200) cameras to recommend, thus if someone asks the best response is to tell them to up their budget or just keep on shooting with their cellphone, rather than wasting a hundred bucks on a disposable camera. 

[josdr]

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Been a few years since I've used Tascam DR60D so I can't remember exactly how long the AA batteries lasted me then, but all you needed to do is slap a USB powerbank on it and your worries are over. Although, it took a firmware update first:

http://ironfilm.co.nz/firmware-update-for-tascam-dr-60d-mk1-fixes-recording-interruptions-when-running-on-external-usb-power-packs/

However, you don't need to do even that for the newer DR60Dmk2, works out of the box. 
 

 

I use my dr60d mk2 with a powerbank  tacked with scratch tape on its back. It works for hours running an ntg-2  (And you can easily replace the powerbank. )

[newfoundmass]

10 hours ago, gethin said:

Is the boot up time reasonable?

It's never been an issue for me, but I also don't use it in spontaneous ways. I always have it on and ready for when I need to record, not because it's slow to boot up (I never noticed that really) but just because that's how I've always been. 

[IronFilm]

8 hours ago, josdr said:

I use my dr60d mk2 with a powerbank  tacked with scratch tape on its back. It works for hours running an ntg-2  (And you can easily replace the powerbank. )

And dealing with just one large battery at the end of the day is so much nicer than having to mess about with a dozen or more AA batteries. 

[gethin]

11 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Add up what I suggested, it still is cheaper than merely just what your camera body by itself cost! (let alone your entire camera kit)

True dat! Ill have acquire it slowly though.  I watched Gerald Undone talking about the oktava, would this be a good place to start? I have the rode video micro. I know this probably seems like a toy, but I really like it. Better than video mic pro which is muddy to my ears. So whatever I get first should do something that one absolutely can't.  I have a scarlet 2i2gen3 and a kingbee for voiceovers too, so the voice stuff Gerald talked about in relation to the Oktava MK-012 is probably less relevant.