Canon C300MkII vs C200

[DBounce]

With the current price of the Canon C300Mk2 now within a couple of thousand dollars of the C200, I was wondering which gives the better image quality. I understand limitations regarding codecs etc... but honestly, I cannot recall two many viewer watch a movie and saying, " I wonder what codec was used to record this?". So with this in mind, my concern is limited to IQ. 

What are your thoughts regarding iQ, DR, low-light etc...?

[User]

I've never used the 300 MkII, but want it for the fat 1080 on doc films.

[IronFilm]

For most people the biggest question is raw vs 10bit? Which do they want. 

Then there are other factors such as the C200 leans more towards the prosumer C100 design than the pro C300, such as lacking timecode, for some people these will be dealbreakers, for others it will not be. 

[DBounce]

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

For most people the biggest question is raw vs 10bit? Which do they want. 

Then there are other factors such as the C200 leans more towards the prosumer C100 design than the pro C300, such as lacking timecode, for some people these will be dealbreakers, for others it will not be. 

I’m not bothered by codec... Raw vs 10 bit XF-AVC etc... The things that can be answered by looking at a spec sheet are easy to discern. It’s the qualities that someone who has used both can speak to that most interest me. So what about low-light? IQ? Usable Dynamic Range? Build quality? 

Lack of time code is easily overcome by using an audio channel to input tc. Prosumer vs Pro... is this just inputs you are speaking about or something else?

[TwoScoops]

Have you found any comparison videos? The hire price of the C200 over here is just over half the C300II which is appealing. 

[Dave Maze]

same sensor and af stuff. 300 is more usable IMO because the codec

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, DBounce said:

Lack of time code is easily overcome by using an audio channel to input tc.

If you're always working in house, and don't mind losing a channel of audio, then sure. But if you're working with others, this might not always be a workflow they prefer. 

[Coiii]

I have used both in commercial projects, mostly digital content for brands. The C300II since it came out, the same for the C200.

Both are great cameras for low budget production, it's the step before a RED or the Alexa. Both also are great in hands of good colorist for matching with high end production cameras like RED or Arri. That's my experience.

Talking about the C300II vs the C200, I think that the C300II falls with the inclusion of 4K60 RAW in the C200. The color science are a little better, but definitely the game breaker it's 4K60. The DPAF it's better, the monitor it's better, dynamic range and low light are better on RAW, and the body it's better. Since we were shooting commercial jobs we always wanted the highest quality possible (and delivering 1080p final output!), so we are not concerned of storage or the cards we use, that's why we always shoot raw. Also the crop factor on the C300II its a big deal. My only concern it's the lack of interchangeable mounts for some projects when we were using PL cine lenses.

But now things are a little different since the C300II option to shoot external Prores RAW, but the lack of 60fps at 4K still hurts.

Now, if you're shooting in more run and gun situations and you need fast delivery or broadcast standards, the C300II it's the camera to go, but only in this situations. I feel that the C200 it's something like a "future proof" camera for at least a few years. 4K60 RAW it's a huge step for our workflow, and the DPAF works amazing. And don't forget the canon color science, you can almost start grading for yourself with the Alexa standard lut in premiere if you can't afford a colorist.

[BenEricson]

I've used the C300ii extensively. I don't really do any work where a C200 could work for me. I want the ability to push images, shooting in natural lighting/small LED panel setups, so would need RAW or 10 bit files, but the file sizes are huge. The C300 is a work horse that has never let me down. We shoot 1080p probably 90 percent of the time.

I haven't used the C200 and the 8 bit does look pretty nice from what I have seen. 

[DBounce]

25 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

I've used the C300ii extensively. I don't really do any work where a C200 could work for me. I want the ability to push images, shooting in natural lighting/small LED panel setups, so would need RAW or 10 bit files, but the file sizes are huge. The C300 is a work horse that has never let me down. We shoot 1080p probably 90 percent of the time.

I haven't used the C200 and the 8 bit does look pretty nice from what I have seen. 

I’m hearing a lot of people saying the future is raw. So in that sense the C200 is more future proof. File sizes don’t bother me, as CFast card will gain larger capacities. Also I do not shoot anything all that long in continuous takes.

Small size/weight will means it will travel more often.

I think for most streamed content 8 bit will prove sufficient. 

The 10 bit C300mk2 footage I played with is flexible, but I believe raw may have more latitude. Does anyone know where there is some raw light footage that can be downloaded so I could have a play with it?

[DBounce]

So I downloaded some C200 footage to play around with... and, it seems noisy. I can’t seem to get it clean. Is nose reduction always needed with raw footage? Is that part of the normal raw process? I don’t recall always needing NR with my Blackmagic cameras.

Got the CRM Files from here. Had a play with the indoor footage. I worked directly from FCPX by installing the Canon plugin. With this plugin you can import and play the files directly from FCPX. Import was not the fastest thing, taking about two minutes or so for a 30 second clip. The edit was done on a late model 15” well spec’d MBP. 

Have any of you worked with C200 footage? Is my experience the norm, or am I missing something? Is there a problem with this footage that explains why it is noisy?

Have a play with it and post what you find

[DBounce]

$hit just got real... More to follow

[DBounce]

On 5/25/2018 at 10:59 AM, DBounce said:

$hit just got real... More to follow

Had a chance to take the Canon C200 out for a quick night shoot. Slapped on the Tiffen BPM 1/2 to see what it would look like. I can tell you the 1/2 strength may effect the AF... I need to do more testing to see if this is the case. AnyWho... the video is below. Let me know what you think about his combination.

 

[Kieran]

It's looking good to me. A few questions if you don't mind.

 What lens were you using on that night shoot?  How do you think the image compares to your 1DXmk2? And are you happy with your purchase?

[Geoff CB]

On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 8:30 AM, DBounce said:

So I downloaded some C200 footage to play around with... and, it seems noisy. I can’t seem to get it clean. Is nose reduction always needed with raw footage? Is that part of the normal raw process? I don’t recall always needing NR with my Blackmagic cameras.

Got the CRM Files from here. Had a play with the indoor footage. I worked directly from FCPX by installing the Canon plugin. With this plugin you can import and play the files directly from FCPX. Import was not the fastest thing, taking about two minutes or so for a 30 second clip. The edit was done on a late model 15” well spec’d MBP. 

Have any of you worked with C200 footage? Is my experience the norm, or am I missing something? Is there a problem with this footage that explains why it is noisy?

Have a play with it and post what you find

I had a friend that had the C100 and loved it. He really wanted to love the C200 but he hated the look, said it didn't have the same "mojo" and also had issues with noise. 

[DBounce]

6 hours ago, Kieran said:

It's looking good to me. A few questions if you don't mind.

 What lens were you using on that night shoot?  How do you think the image compares to your 1DXmk2? And are you happy with your purchase?

Hi @Kieran the lens was the Canon 24-70mm F2.8 II. The image in RawLite is a big step up in terms of flexibility in post, DR is also a noticeable bump up. Make no mistake, the 1DXMK2 has a great image quality, and to that point... 8-bit, I need to talk about the 8-bit. From earl test I’m thinking the 1DXMK2 has better 8-bit. But don’t hold me to this statement just yet... I need to experiment more with 8-bit to see if that’s truly the case. But as of now, I’m struggling to understand why I would ever shoot 8-bit with the C200? RawLite edits fine... without need to transcode... directly in FCPX thanks to the new plugin. And my 2016 MBP is keeping up fine. Also, with CFast prices falling, media is becoming reasonably priced. Especially when you compare to Red.

Comparing to Red: I kicked around the idea of a Red, first the Raven... then the 5k Gemini senor model... but those cameras do not lend themselves to run and gun shooting. Also, while many will scoff at AF, a quick search on line will find most of the footage, outside of major productions is largely out of focus. So I’m thinking a focus puller is mandatory for most operators. 

I belive the C200 is the best all around run and gun solution. Small enough to carry, well built, decent mic pres, workable AF, flexible image, good low-light and all the tools you need right there... at your fingertips. Oh, and built in NDs rock!

Am I happy with my purchase? Yes, it’s great to have a dedicated video camera. It is a breathtaking revelation, once you’ve used it and compare the experience to the hassle of endlessly rigging your hybrid camera. Having all the tools with dedicated buttons to quickly access them is glorious. I’m loving it.

6 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

I had a friend that had the C100 and loved it. He really wanted to love the C200 but he hated the look, said it didn't have the same "mojo" and also had issues with noise. 

The C100 has mojo no doubt, but I think this camera (the C200) can do double duty as doc camera or indie film camera. 

Talking mojo what’s the scoop on DSO Trump and Flare Factory lenses? Are they still in business? I would love to get my hands on one of these lenses after watching some footage from them shot with the C200. Check it out below (not my work):

 

[Kieran]

3 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Am I happy with my purchase? Yes, it’s great to have a dedicated video camera. It is a breathtaking revelation, once you’ve used it and compare the experience to the hassle of endlessly rigging your hybrid camera. Having all the tools with dedicated buttons to quickly access them is glorious. I’m loving it.

Im out of 'likes' for today so instead I'll say thanks. I still use the C100 a lot so I know what you mean about ease of use. Looking forward to what you produce with this camera in the future. 

[DBounce]

Got out and shot a bit more with the C200. Footage is easy to grade and colors pop. The 12 bit raw is great to work with and very forgiving. Check it out below:

 

[mercer]

@DBounce nice work. Colors look great. Nothing against your GH5 work, but I think you may be getting along better with the C200. Man, I am so jealous... not really I am pretty happy with my 5D3 and I notice some similarities between the images from the two cameras... in fact, a 5D3 could be a good B-Cam for you. 

[DBounce]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

@DBounce nice work. Colors look great. Nothing against your GH5 work, but I think you may be getting along better with the C200. Man, I am so jealous... not really I am pretty happy with my 5D3 and I notice some similarities between the images from the two cameras... in fact, a 5D3 could be a good B-Cam for you. 

I feel the Canons play nice together.  Oh, and for all their segment protectionism, it is still hard to fault the colors.