Lars von Trier returns to Cannes and people seem to have taken personal offence to his fictional serial killer

[User]

Cup of urine anyone?

[Richard Bugg]

5 hours ago, nickname said:

is it your british upbringing...

There is one thing for sure, and that is that contentious people like LvT promote robust discussion. And I would say that is probably a positive outcome. I don't agree with the key premises of Andrew's argument, nor the conclusions that follow, and I think it is reasonable to contest the argument on that basis. Perhaps I have missed something as well and I can learn from the discussion. But I'm not sure that personalising things is particularly useful, more of a distraction. Sometimes, a different conception of the problem leads to different conclusions.

[Spgreen65]

Can’t wait to see it.  The trailer was awesome!

[nickname]

9 hours ago, Richard Bugg said:

There is one thing for sure, and that is that contentious people like LvT promote robust discussion. And I would say that is probably a positive outcome. I don't agree with the key premises of Andrew's argument, nor the conclusions that follow, and I think it is reasonable to contest the argument on that basis. Perhaps I have missed something as well and I can learn from the discussion. But I'm not sure that personalising things is particularly useful, more of a distraction. Sometimes, a different conception of the problem leads to different conclusions.

so calling out sexism and racism and connecting it with eurocentrims is peronalizing things?

a post that starts with excusing sexism is useless no matter what arguments follow.

[Snowfun]

10 minutes ago, nickname said:

so calling out sexism and racism and connecting it with eurocentrims is peronalizing things?

I think it might have been your use of the phrases  “your upbringing” and “personal trauma”  which lends itself to “personalising things”?

[Damphousse]

On 5/19/2018 at 12:14 AM, Richard Bugg said:

This NYT article on the current controversy provides some interesting insights. Based on the final chilling paragraphs LvT may well be sociopathic. I certainly wouldn't want him as my banner boy for freedom of expression, but then again if you argue against censorship in any form then you are arguing not only for LvT's work, but also for far worse. Good luck with that.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/movies/lars-von-trier-the-house-that-jack-built-cannes-film-festival.html

 

Thanks for the link to the article.  That article seems a bit more realistic.  Honestly living in America I don't know of any movies in recent memory that have been "banned" or "censored".  We are the porn capitol of the world.  People are free to make their movies and PRIVATE theaters and film festivals are free to screen the movies they want.  That's kind of the thing about property rights.  I can control who comes onto my PRIVATE property and screens movies.  It is kind of a neat feature of Western democracies.  I kind of like it.

It is amazing that the little blog rant failed to mention the director blurting out "I am a Nazi" the last time he was at Cannes.

Quote

The surprise is that Mr. von Trier is at Cannes at all, having been banned by the festival in 2011. That year, at the news conference for “Melancholia” — his brilliant, deeply felt movie about the end of the world or at least one woman — Mr. von Trier blurted out that he was a Nazi. Seated next to a soon-squirming Kirsten Dunst, he took a question about his German roots, the gothic and the Nazi aesthetic. Mr. von Trier started to talk and then he began to babble, finally ending this excruciating spectacle with a little laugh and the disastrous words: “O.K., I’m a Nazi.”

Oh my god!!!  I'm clutching my pearls!  A German went to a PRIVATE event and babbled incoherently before announcing "I'm a Nazi" and then he wasn't invited back?  How strange and devastating!  What are we going to do?!

I honestly wonder what some of the people on this website do for a living.  I've had various jobs where I had to deal with life and death situations, billion dollar deals, etc.  I had to be able to control my mouth for 10 sometimes 15 minutes at a time.  I know.  Pretty unbelievable.  Right?

I think a lot of what has been posted here stands as a testament to the Western white male man baby, the most infantile and sensitive of creatures on the face of the earth.

14 hours ago, nickname said:

where is the connection between the sexist joke in the elevator, black panther and Lars van Trier? there is none.

I liked your post because of this sentence.  You succinctly summed up one of my strongest feelings about this blog post.  I couldn't for the life of me understand what any of these things had to do with each other.  And of course ALL of the examples were thoroughly misrepresented.  What was asked of the white male scientist was merely an apology.  An apology would have been the end of it.  Instead he went nuclear.  I've apologized for things at work that I haven't even done.  You have to pick which hill you wish to die on.  And the Lars thing could have been avoided if he had the common sense and breeding not to declare "I am a Nazi" when he is a guest at private events.

I go through life and I have NONE of the problems these man babies seem to have.

On 5/16/2018 at 10:58 AM, Andrew Reid said:

A life’s work ruined in a blink of an eye, a career smashed in the time it takes to make a wise crack in a lift.

Please.  How do you get that from this...

Quote

“The remedy,” the ISA declared, is “to require that you formally apologize to Prof. Sharoni” in writing.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/05/is-this-old-lingerie-joke-harmless-or-harassment/559760/

I don't take particular offense to the joke.  I don't take any offense to the woman being offended by it.  I don't take any offense to the governing body asking the man to apologize particularly when he followed up the joke by telling the woman in writing her behavior was "frivolous".

Even at this late date if the guy just apologized I really wouldn't think much of this whole affair one way or the other.  I suppose at some point in time something like this would be a bigger deal but when you have an admitted serial sexual assaulter sitting in the White House a lot of this other stuff sort of pales in comparison.

If this guy wants to set his reputation on fire by waging some epic battle that is his choice.  That has nothing to do with this woman and it certainly makes no commentary about the broader society except that there are a lot of Western white male crybabies out there.  I apologize at work all the time.  If you genuflect, bow your head, and say I'm sorry people usually can't keep kicking you in the gut.  Heck I do it in my boss' office on a Friday afternoon when I just want to get out of there and make it to happy hour.  I'm not going to waste 45 minutes of cheap drinking explaining my position when I can just say, "yeah that other guy is right and I'm sorry" and get out of there.

[Damphousse]

On 5/17/2018 at 11:25 AM, Bioskop.Inc said:

But, the one thing you can say about his films is that they get people talking about what they've just witnessed & surely that is preferred to the multitude of films that just wash over you & are forgotten a few hours later - like all the Marvel films, for instance.

That's interesting.  Besides this blog no one in my life at home or at work or in any of the media that I consume ever talk about this guy or his films.  I never even heard of him.  In contrast people talk about Marvel films all the time.

Utilizing comic book material Marvel has managed to make multiple historic movies that will be discussed 50 years from now.  Most of the Marvel movies are ho hum.  But what really astounds me are the ones that are either really good and/or historic.  And it is amazing the quality of the movies that they have made with obscure characters.  In contrast DC releases turkey after turkey utilizing some of the biggest comic book names in history.

I think in the little artsy fartsy corner of the movie world people just get so full of themselves that they just gush about oddball weird stuff like this Lars' characters work.  And simultaneously people reject quality work because it is too popular or because it is put out by a big faceless multibillion dollar company.  I've gotten old enough and mature enough that I know what I like.  I don't have to watch pretentious artsy movies just to seem sophisticated.

Let's be honest.  A lot of movies suck and these artsy movies are not immune.

[Kieran]

5 hours ago, Damphousse said:

I think in the little artsy fartsy corner of the movie world people just get so full of themselves that they just gush about oddball weird stuff like this Lars' characters work.  And simultaneously people reject quality work because it is too popular or because it is put out by a big faceless multibillion dollar company.  I've gotten old enough and mature enough that I know what I like.  I don't have to watch pretentious artsy movies just to seem sophisticated.

Let's be honest.  A lot of movies suck and these artsy movies are not immune.

If you are really old and mature, then you should have outgrown these silly superhero movies by now. They are OK on occasion as a guilty pleasure (a bit like a McDonalds meal), but you should look for something with a bit more sustenance, something which might stay with you after the credits have rolled, something which might inform you or make you see the world differently. It could even be entertaining too.  Hollywood only seems to make films for kids (and kidults) these days. We're living in an age of mass infantilism.  

[User]

Hot off the burner:
https://www.munkdebates.com/The-Debates/Political-Correctness

Stephen Fry quoting Bertrand Russell: "'One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.' Let doubt prevail"

[theraywong]

Robust debate...he he!

[anonim]

On 5/21/2018 at 5:50 AM, User said:

Hot off the burner:
https://www.munkdebates.com/The-Debates/Political-Correctness

Stephen Fry quoting Bertrand Russell: "'One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.' Let doubt prevail"

Wow, what a progress... from original "Cup of urin anyone" to quoting of quoting with arbitrarily contextualization. Actually, I think that you just illustrate best wow-impressed-public for last LvT achievement - also and formal capacity of disputed movie: Cup of something pseudoartsy condensed-dirty (which is btw everywhere and more diabolically subtle around us), than contextualize it within cheapest liberal politic blabbing and pathetic oh and uh behavior.

Bertrand Russell would be in delight knowing that we finally learned that serial killer was cruel in the childhood and that his enjoy in sadism could be funny for himself and sometimes funny to watch for someone enough liberal outside if showgenius rendered it in explicit way.

(Personally, I'd be more impressed nowadays if someone make movie-parallel between glamour wedding of second-rate actress with UK prince, and responsibility of UK people and government for million-rate serial killing in Syria or Libya - to provide fuel for common ignorant Western indifference to which LvT belongs with such theme.)

Once again - problem with this movie is not that it is yes/no provocative, but that it is empty, oportunistic and desperately mainstream-disguised pretentious. It is miserable kitsch in trying to provoke in cheap and stupid manner, quite properly choose to touch not humanity, but egocentrically boring community that provide money for such achievement.

Contrary to some other LvT movies, here we are forced to hallucinate over concrete artistic emptiness by which he has all rights to experiment, because - "A hallucination is a fact, not an error; what is erroneous is a judgment based upon it", as once said Bertrand Russel.
 

[Kieran]

45 minutes ago, anonim said:

and responsibility of UK people and government for million-rate serial killing in Syria or Libya
 

That's a dangerous statement, holding 'UK people' responsible is the kind of attitude which makes a suicide bomber feel justified in wiping out as many civilians as possible. What we're discussing is only a movie that actors agreed to take part in and no-one was hurt.  The themes in the movie may be sick and twisted but you don't have to watch it. I'll reserve judgement on it until I've actually seen it. I may well hate it.

45 minutes ago, anonim said:

it is empty, oportunistic and desperately mainstream-disguised pretentious. It is miserable kitsch in trying to provoke in cheap and stupid manner, quite properly choose to touch not humanity, but egocentrically boring community that provide money for such achievement.

You could be right - but have you actually seen it yet?

[anonim]

2 hours ago, Kieran said:

That's a dangerous statement, holding 'UK people' responsible is the kind of attitude which makes a suicide bomber feel justified in wiping out as many civilians as possible. What we're discussing is only a movie that actors agreed to take part in and no-one was hurt.  The themes in the movie may be sick and twisted but you don't have to watch it. I'll reserve judgement on it until I've actually seen it. I may well hate it.

 

Actually, I think (but I'm not at all original) that deep dangerous is leaving UK or any other people in constant feeling of irresponsibility for whatever global evil and serial killing of thousands and million humans is done in their/our name and with their/our tax money - what f.e. is the responsibility epilogue of false arguments as foundation for destruction of Iraq and enormous-endless suffering of million human beings, false arguments/accusations which brutal goal was just to take over more oil fields?... Of course, you quoted just part of my statement - firm relationship with this broadly-speculative-article-thread is example-suggestion of maybe really "provocative" theme exploration instead of LvT 10 million $ movie (which btw I've seen being privileged inhabitant of second rate world in comparison with UK) basically in very skilful and imaginative way showing how/why so imaginative may be serial killer in hyper-comfortable consumer society...

I'm sad that once upon a time there was in UK such a venerable voice for whom than was redundant to further explain these words about base feeling of responsibility: “Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”

[User]

5 hours ago, anonim said:

Wow, what a progress... from original "Cup of urin anyone" to quoting of quoting with arbitrarily contextualization. Actually, I think that you just illustrate best wow-impressed-public for last LvT achievement - also and formal capacity of disputed movie: Cup of something pseudoartsy condensed-dirty (which is btw everywhere and more diabolically subtle around us), than contextualize it within cheapest liberal politic blabbing and pathetic oh and uh behavior.

You're welcome, I'm not as think as you stoned I am.

You seem to be quite 'certain' in your judgements, but one thing for sure is that Lars isn't sitting around criticising your new film that he hasn't seen.

[Richard Bugg]

10 hours ago, theraywong said:

Robust debate...he he!

Yes, point taken.

'Robust' is a loose term.

[User]

On 20/05/2018 at 7:44 PM, Kieran said:

We're living in an age of mass infantilism.  

I absolutely agree and have been referring to it as a kind of delayed/ retarded adolescence. North America is the absolute goofy epicentre of this... people largely weened on shit media going around as cartoon caricatures... tripping all over themselves thanking and apologising profusely rather that actually taking real responsibility for their behaviour. Embarrassing, but serves as amusement if/ when they leave home turf for distant lands where they quickly become the laughing stock and fodder for the locals.

I digress.

[Bioskop.Inc]

On 5/20/2018 at 7:48 PM, Damphousse said:

That's interesting.  Besides this blog no one in my life at home or at work or in any of the media that I consume ever talk about this guy or his films.  I never even heard of him.  In contrast people talk about Marvel films all the time.

That's not what I said at all - try a little harder at reading & also try to be a little less smug. I don't actually like his films, but the ones I have seen tend to be more thought provoking than I had imagined. But here's a thing, here's a 3 page thread about one of LvT artsy films - just haven't noticed a thread about Marvel films here, have you?

I remember a friend suggesting we see that "Civil War Marvel film", I countered with Victoria, he watched the trailer & then we saw Victoria instead - so glad we saw this, best film ever, according to my friend (and yes he's a Marvel Braindead Zombie too). Gotta love these artsy films, they're the only ones doing interesting stuff...

And Marvel Films are shit...no awful...no, i was right the first time...they're shit & American...so, they're American Shit!?

[Kieran]

I wonder if this will turn out to be Lars Von Trier's last full length feature film. He had such a terrible time making it that he turned back to alcohol after many years of sobriety.  His next announced project is a series of short black and white films which he hopes will make him feel good again. 

He is 62 which is not ancient by any means but in recent interviews he looks like his health has deteriorated quite badly.  He has a constant tremor which I suspect is Parkinson's Disease or a similar neurological condition.

I hope I'm wrong about this as I'd like to see more features from this important artist. 

[Damphousse]

More intellectual work from the political incorrect geniuses...

Amazing!  So intellectual!  So deep!  Did you see how he just said what he wanted to say?  It made him look so smart!  It made him look like an adult!

 

On 5/23/2018 at 1:10 PM, Bioskop.Inc said:

I don't actually like his films, but the ones I have seen tend to be more thought provoking than I had imagined. But here's a thing, here's a 3 page thread about one of LvT artsy films - just haven't noticed a thread about Marvel films here, have you?

 

3 Pages on the internet?!  You realize you are posting that statement on a forum where a camera without a single frame of official released footage has a 100+ page thread.  And that camera will be obsolete in 5 years.  I could take a dump in my front yard, stick my hand in it, and do some finger painting.  If I made a video of my "art" and posted it here it would get way more than 3 pages worth of commentary.  Well it would probably get censored by the guy that claims he is against censorship.  And I wouldn't blame him.

No I haven't noticed any threads on here about Marvel films.  But as I've pointed out on numerous occasions a lot of posters on this forum are clueless about the real world so I am not surprised.  I prefer to live in the real world not some delusional side dimension.  For example the delusion that the NX1 was going to be some massive financial success.  Go back and see how many times I interjected a bit of reality onto this forum on that subject and the delusional refused to believe me.  So no, ignoring real life is the norm on this forum.  Why would that surprise me?

On 5/24/2018 at 2:27 AM, Kieran said:

I wonder if this will turn out to be Lars Von Trier's last full length feature film. He had such a terrible time making it that he turned back to alcohol after many years of sobriety.  His next announced project is a series of short black and white films which he hopes will make him feel good again.

Mental illness and substance abuse?  Why am I not surprised?

[kidzrevil]

What was bad about Black Panther ? The acting ? The casting ? Curious to know.

Interesting trailer btw. For some reason it reminded me of Mindhunter. 

But for what its worth the sub text of this article is pretty revealing...