Recommend me an audio setup for recording a band outdoors

[Inazuma]

On 5/29/2018 at 9:54 AM, Rodolfo Fernandes said:

I am not an audio guy, i am completly ignorant in that department. I did a couple of videos of a friend of myne playing guitar in the middle of trees and i just used a Zoom H4n Pro to record it, its not perfect but it works!
 

 

Could you tell us a bit about your camera set up there? Did you do multiple takes with 1 or 2 cameras and intercut them?

[BTM_Pix]

Is this going to be a regular gig?

If it is then I'm going to go against the grain and say you should look at doing it like a regular music video and doing post-sync audio.

If they have a recording of themselves to lip sync to then great but if not then you can record it yourself in a more controlled environment and for the type of music that you are looking to record I'd recommend getting a pair of Samson C-02 mics. 

There are plenty of examples of them being used on YouTube for voice with acoustic like this one (though he's gone a bit wild with the panning to be honest). They include a foam pop shield but they're pretty sensitive to plosives so you might want to look at spending a few quid more on a better shield. Or a pair of tights and a coat hanger if you want to go old school improv.

The big bonus though is that they do a pretty competent job for indoor dialogue/interview scenarios as well so you'll find you get a lot more use out of them as an all round tool for other work. 

The even bigger bonus is the price in that they are £75 for a pair.

Recording the audio first and getting the musicians to mime to it will improve the end result immeasurably from the audio side obviously but also from the video side as you can do multiple takes and multiple shot sizes without having to concern yourself with the mic placement and capture quality.

Another alternative if you want to do it live with a recorder would be the Zoom H2n which has a very flexible microphone array in it which gives you some degree of post capture control. It doesn't get a lot of love but its actually a very interesting and practical device that can produce decent results in the field for what you are trying to do. 

Thomann do a variety of bundles for it starting at about £113 for the recorder on its own but I'd budget the extra £30 for the Rycote for it

https://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.html?sw=zoom+h2n&smcs=3be5e9_3212

 

[Rodolfo Fernandes]

3 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Nice video. Thanks for posting.

Starting at about 2:05, were you just handholding the camera? Shoulder Rig? Gimbal? I like the natural movement of the camera. It is not OVER stabilized like on a gimbal.

All handheld, both him and me are just doing this for fun so we try to make it simple, and thanks!

2 hours ago, Inazuma said:

Could you tell us a bit about your camera set up there? Did you do multiple takes with 1 or 2 cameras and intercut them?

Sure! Had a D750 on a tripod and was shooting with a D850 handheld, we had 3 takes i think, so i set up the D750 with the tripod on 3 different places on each take and did the same with the D850 and used a 35mm 85mm and 105mm, and placed the recorder next to him he only had to turn his guitar a bit away from the recorder so we could have an almost equal volume on voice and guitar sound.

[Mark Romero 2]

4 minutes ago, Rodolfo Fernandes said:

All handheld, both him and me are just doing this for fun so we try to make it simple, and thanks!

Thanks for the note. What camera are you using? Again, I like it be cause it looks stable but not too stable. I think my sony a6500 might have a bit of rolling shutter when I hold it handheld like you are doing in your video.

[Rodolfo Fernandes]

1 minute ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Thanks for the note. What camera are you using? Again, I like it be cause it looks stable but not too stable. I think my sony a6500 might have a bit of rolling shutter when I hold it handheld like you are doing in your video.

Used a D850 i think i also used a Tamron 24-70 with VC and its perfect for shooting handheld, just get used to holding your breath.

This was the first video we did, it lacks movement so i don't like that much. But in this setup he brought his mic which we plugged to the recorder, same with the guitar. The thing is, we prefer to do it without the mic to look even more acoustic than it already is. Also it was my second day with the Mavic Pro and flew it between some trees and didnt crash it so i got that going for me
 

 

[Inazuma]

If I use the XLR adapter for my mics, should I turn the phantom power of the recorder off?

[newfoundmass]

3 hours ago, Inazuma said:

If I use the XLR adapter for my mics, should I turn the phantom power of the recorder off?

I'm not sure, but I feel like, if the mic itself doesn't have a battery and thus requires power from the camera, that it might require phantom power otherwise I don't know what will power the mic but you'll want to check that out, as using a mic incorrectly with phantom power can damage your mic. 

[IronFilm]

14 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The big bonus though is that they do a pretty competent job for indoor dialogue/interview scenarios as well so you'll find you get a lot more use out of them as an all round tool for other work. 

Last year I did an entire month long feature film with just the Samson C02! 

Well, for indoors at least. Outdoors I use a Sanken CS3e or an Aputure Deity shotgun. 

[Mark Romero 2]

14 hours ago, Rodolfo Fernandes said:

Used a D850 i think i also used a Tamron 24-70 with VC and its perfect for shooting handheld, just get used to holding your breath.

This was the first video we did, it lacks movement so i don't like that much. But in this setup he brought his mic which we plugged to the recorder, same with the guitar. The thing is, we prefer to do it without the mic to look even more acoustic than it already is. Also it was my second day with the Mavic Pro and flew it between some trees and didnt crash it so i got that going for me
 

 

I like his singing. Sounds a little bit like Keane on Somewhere Only We Know.

Since you would prefer to NOT have the mic in the shot, then you should definitely think about recording the music in a studio-like setting, and then just shooting him while he is lip syncing.

[Anaconda_]

15 hours ago, Rodolfo Fernandes said:

The thing is, we prefer to do it without the mic to look even more acoustic than it already is. 

Video looks great, nice one. I shoot a lot of live music, performed for the cameras and have come to the conclusion it looks very unnatural to have good sound but no mics in shot. Being able to see the recording equipment (i think) gives the video an extra dimension and makes it feel more professional, as well as more authentic. I even like to get glimpses of the lighting in the frame every now and then. Let me know if you'd like some examples :)

Especially with acoustic music, I think needs the errors and faults of a live performance to appear real, so I would advise against lip syncing.

[BTM_Pix]

53 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Last year I did an entire month long feature film with just the Samson C02! 

Well, for indoors at least. Outdoors I use a Sanken CS3e or an Aputure Deity shotgun. 

They are quite the value proposition aren't they.

Always wonder why Samson produce such a broad range of microphones yet don't do a shotgun.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

They are quite the value proposition aren't they.

Yes and no. On one hand very cheap, and are "ok", but on the other hand you can certainly do a lot better as well!

 

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

 Always wonder why Samson produce such a broad range of microphones yet don't do a shotgun.

Probably because a shotgun has a potential market which is massively smaller than a cardioid SDC has. And there are already lots of people making cheap shotguns already. (could Samson do cheaper/better than an Audio-Technica AT875R / RODE NTG1 / Azden SGM-1X / Senal MC24 / Aputure Deity?! Maybe, maybe not, probably not? It is a very competitive market place out there)

[BTM_Pix]

15 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Yes and no. On one hand very cheap, and are "ok", but on the other hand you can certainly do a lot better as well!

I know what you mean but the value aspect is in the £75 for a matched pair. 

At that price, even "ok" is a big result

Mind you, that looks positively Leica-esque pricing compared to Thomann's own sourced EM700 stereo set complete with dual suspensions and T bar for £50.48.

Surprisingly enough, they also manage to be "not not ok"

16 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Probably because a shotgun has a potential market which is massively smaller than a cardioid SDC has. And there are already lots of people making cheap shotguns already. (could Samson do cheaper/better than an Audio-Technica AT875R / RODE NTG1 / Azden SGM-1X / Senal MC24 / Aputure Deity?! Maybe, maybe not, probably not? It is a very competitive market place out there)

I'm going for probably not.

[IronFilm]

There are quite a few interesting looking and "ok" sounding low low priced SDC hypercardioid/cardioids, not just the Samson C02 (for instance the iSK Little Gem, just to mention one of many others). But I guess the Samson C02 gained a little bit more extra traction in our little niche of filmmaking because of Curtis Judd and a few others (like myself) who used it. 

[Anaconda_]

8 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

There are quite a few interesting looking and "ok" sounding low low priced SDC hypercardioid/cardioids, not just the Samson C02.

So true, I bought this set a while back and use the cardioids for indoor interviews almost daily. 

https://www.bax-shop.nl/kleinmembraan-condensatormicrofoons/cad-audio-gxl-3000ssp-stereo-studio-pack

They're great and cheap €89 each

https://www.bax-shop.nl/kleinmembraan-condensatormicrofoons/cad-audio-gxl1200-kleinmembraan-condensatormicrofoon

I also use the set for live music. This video was me on sound, lights, cameras and editing/mixing etc.

1 take with a handheld GX80 Sigma 30mm 1.4 and LS300 Canon 50mm 1.8 on a tripod (then fake handheld movements) 

 

[Inazuma]

8 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I'm not sure, but I feel like, if the mic itself doesn't have a battery and thus requires power from the camera, that it might require phantom power otherwise I don't know what will power the mic but you'll want to check that out, as using a mic incorrectly with phantom power can damage your mic. 

I just learnt from this video that the Rode XLR adapter converts the 12v phantom power down to 3-5v 

Edit: Note it's the VXLR+ not the regular VXLR that does this. Using a regular mic with regular VXLR will likely damage it.

[Emanuel]

On 5/29/2018 at 9:24 AM, JBraddock said:

As far as I know, Rode VideoMicro comes only with a TRS cable out of the box so you have to purchase a TRRS cable to use it on your phone.

(...)

On a side note, I suggest you take a look at Movo VXR10 or Boya BY-MM1 (Same mics) Cable reviewed this mic on his channel. I bought mine for £20. It is similar to Rode VideoMicro but louder and comes with TRS and TRRS cables, shock mount, a dead cat and carrying pouch. Since you already have a Rode VideoMicro and are on tight budget, perhaps you could purchase this mic alongside with a stereo breakout cable and use them on your Zoom H1.

 

Anyways... Yeah, louder

but...

I wouldn't: