FoxAdriano Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Hello, I'd like to buy a compact camera but really compact, my budget is 900 euros max. I did research about it but I didn't know much about it because I don't have experience with compact cameras to make videos in 4K. The camera must have a tilting LCD and a zoom more than 3X, even if it is a bit more. But I'd like a camera that makes good videos, with good quality. Thanks so much for some info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hijodeibn Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 What do you mean with good quality?, good colors out of the camera?, or a robust codec to grade later in post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 It depends how compact you're looking for. I'm guessing you're also looking for a point and shoot camera? Panasonic has a good number of options, from ones that can fit in your pocket (LX10) to ones that have a traditional camera style body (FZ300). Most, if not all, of the Panasonic 4k lineup has very good video quality. webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I shot 6 documentaries on the DMC‑GX8. The 4K IQ to my eye is impressive. The camera is pretty cheap used so you'd have some cash left over to get a decent zoom lens for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaconda_ Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I use a GX80 on a daily basis. It's fantastic. The only downside is there's no mic input. If you don't need external audio, I highly recommend it. It's also one of the cheapest cameras of it's kind, so there's plenty of budget for a good lens. Or it comes in some nice packages with a couple different lenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelbb Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 A Sony RX100 V matches all your requirements & is really, really compact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, nigelbb said: A Sony RX100 V matches all your requirements & is really, really compact. It has a 5 minute recording limit in 4K, poor battery life, awful Sony menus, and overheats. I wouldn't recommend it at all unless you're absolutely never going to record over 5 minutes in 4K. You can get more for significantly less money from most of the Panasonic compact offerings. The FZ300 for instance has 5 axis IBIS, a 25-600mm lens with constant f/2.8 aperture, plus a mic jack. And it's over half the price of the RX100V; he could buy two of them and still have money left over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spgreen65 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Panasonic G85. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelbb Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 18 hours ago, newfoundmass said: It has a 5 minute recording limit in 4K, poor battery life, awful Sony menus, and overheats. I wouldn't recommend it at all unless you're absolutely never going to record over 5 minutes in 4K. You can get more for significantly less money from most of the Panasonic compact offerings. The FZ300 for instance has 5 axis IBIS, a 25-600mm lens with constant f/2.8 aperture, plus a mic jack. And it's over half the price of the RX100V; he could buy two of them and still have money left over. Are you serious? The OP specified "a compact camera but really compact" & the FZ300 weighs over 600gm versus the 300gm of the RX100 so it's literally double the weight so not really compact at all. Worst of all the FZ300 has a 1/2.3 inch sensor versus the 1" sensor in the RX100 so the video quality is vastly inferior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 A GH4 with a cheap kit lens is pretty hard to beat for the money. They are really not that big with a small lens on them. Why give up every trick in the book that the GH4 has over something that just makes the grade? There has been some killer stuff shot on a GH4. Anything small as heck is mostly a total compromise I am not wiling to do. Might as well use your Smartphone to be honest using the small stuff. But there is the beautiful Panasonic LX100. Just wish there was the LX200. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newfoundmass Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 hour ago, nigelbb said: Are you serious? The OP specified "a compact camera but really compact" & the FZ300 weighs over 600gm versus the 300gm of the RX100 so it's literally double the weight so not really compact at all. Worst of all the FZ300 has a 1/2.3 inch sensor versus the 1" sensor in the RX100 so the video quality is vastly inferior. The FZ300 was only one of the options I gave and was only using that as an example. I'd take the smaller censor and mic input over a 5 minute limit to 4K recording and terrible battery life though. Replace the FZ300 with the LX10. Or the other Panasonic point and shoots available. They at least aren't handicapped by a ridiculous recording limit and battery life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelbb Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 19 hours ago, newfoundmass said: The FZ300 was only one of the options I gave and was only using that as an example. I'd take the smaller censor and mic input over a 5 minute limit to 4K recording and terrible battery life though. Replace the FZ300 with the LX10. Or the other Panasonic point and shoots available. They at least aren't handicapped by a ridiculous recording limit and battery life. The LX10 is crippled in other ways as regards video though as a sensor crop is used so in 1080p the lens is a 30-90mm FF equivalent & in 4K is 36-108mm FF equivalent so badly lacking at the wide end. You have still not come up with a single camera model that answers the OP's requirements. On the other hand my suggestion of the Sony RX100 matches all requirements. The OP doesn't tell us what they want the camera for so while a 5 minute clip limit may be an issue for talking head interviews it certainly isn't for creative narrative cinematography. 21 hours ago, webrunner5 said: A GH4 with a cheap kit lens is pretty hard to beat for the money. They are really not that big with a small lens on them. Why give up every trick in the book that the GH4 has over something that just makes the grade? There has been some killer stuff shot on a GH4. Anything small as heck is mostly a total compromise I am not wiling to do. Might as well use your Smartphone to be honest using the small stuff. But there is the beautiful Panasonic LX100. Just wish there was the LX200. ? Why propose cameras that do not match the OP's requirements? The GH4 weighs 560gm without a lens & in comparison to the small bridge cameras is not by any stretch "compact camera but really compact" The LX100 does not have a tiltable screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 I agree with the general Panasonic wave here. RX100 line might be tech rich but the 5' rec limit & overheating can be a real problem if video is the primary use. newfoundmass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelbb Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 27 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said: I agree with the general Panasonic wave here. RX100 line might be tech rich but the 5' rec limit & overheating can be a real problem if video is the primary use. I'm happy to be contradicted so please chip in & tell us the model number of the Panasonic that will match the OP's requirements. I have researched this quite extensively myself as I am looking for a very small camera that can be pocketed & thus far the Sony RX100 is the one that ticks most boxes for me (& satisfies the OP's specifications). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 minute ago, nigelbb said: I'm happy to be contradicted so please chip in & tell us the model number of the Panasonic that will match the OP's requirements. I have researched this quite extensively myself as I am looking for a very small camera that can be pocketed & thus far the Sony RX100 is the one that ticks most boxes for me (& satisfies the OP's specifications). In the same boat as well, but what I am saying is that even though the Sony ticks all the boxes it might be a pain in the ass once you start hitting the 5'/overheating limit. Personally I have decided to wait for the LX200. But if I had to buy a camera right now with the primary purpose being video, I would rather give up something from the OP's list than get the Sony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 3 hours ago, nigelbb said: The LX10 is crippled in other ways as regards video though as a sensor crop is used so in 1080p the lens is a 30-90mm FF equivalent & in 4K is 36-108mm FF equivalent so badly lacking at the wide end. You have still not come up with a single camera model that answers the OP's requirements. On the other hand my suggestion of the Sony RX100 matches all requirements. The OP doesn't tell us what they want the camera for so while a 5 minute clip limit may be an issue for talking head interviews it certainly isn't for creative narrative cinematography. Why propose cameras that do not match the OP's requirements? The GH4 weighs 560gm without a lens & in comparison to the small bridge cameras is not by any stretch "compact camera but really compact" The LX100 does not have a tiltable screen. Ok why don't YOU suggest a camera worth a crap. Other than the Sony RX... and the LX100 what then?? Why buy a camera that sucks ass. When he asks for a tilting screen and 4K that fits in your pocket there is not a hell of a lot of options. This site is Suppose to be about half serious video. Not what camera do I take to Disneyland, or If you could only have one lens crap. Go to DPR if you want to see an answer to those questions. It might Also help if the OP gave us a clue what he, she is even going to use it for, or shoot?? think what the OP wants doesn't even exist to be honest. Use your Smartphone. They are better than just about any compact camera. That's why few even exist. newfoundmass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 I had the RX100 V for one day. The camera is tiny... like insanely so and the features really are impressive. The image was very nice. But I got the dreaded overheating warning while in the menus without ever pressing record... in the middle of December... in 40 degree Fahrenheit weather... so... I returned it. I had it set to record 4K, so maybe in 1080p it would be okay. But if you’re shooting in 1080p, you may as well save some money and go with the Canon G7X Mark II. It’s more ergonomic, with good stabilization and AF and better color science. Or the OP could always go with an a5100 with the tiny kit zoom if 1080p will suffice. That camera is as small as a lot of compacts with the option to use other interchangeable lenses if the need arises, plus there’s the tilting screen with touchscreen PDAF. newfoundmass and webrunner5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted June 9, 2018 Super Members Share Posted June 9, 2018 The Panasonic LX10/15 meets the original spec. It has 3x zoom, the original poster didn't say it necessarily had to start at a 24mm equivalent. You can look at that crop one of two ways in that it's giving you less on the wide end than the RX100M5 but it's giving you more on the long end, which is something that may be more important for his/her needs. I have both the LX15 and the RX100M5 and my opinion is that I don't hate the crop (as I'm fond of the FOV anyway ) and I can always re-frame by stepping back so in that way I can match the RX100 max FOV. But what I can't do on the RX100 is make the lens faster so I have no possibility to match the LX15 in that respect. It comes down to picking what is more important I suppose for how you will be using it. I could make the point to be honest that 24mm is a bit of a meh focal length anyway as its neither fish nor fowl so neither camera goes wide enough really but again that's down to personal preference. With regard to the video itself, with the Cinelike D hack the LX10/15 bridges part of the gap to the Slog profiles of the Sony and might well be all the flat that people need in that form factor. You can use Cinelike D at any iso whereas the lowest of 1600 and 3200 for the Slog profiles does start making a bit of an issue of keeping it's original ethos of being a compact as you have to put a filter thread mount on it for a pretty nuch permanently mounted variable ND. Of course you can use the other flat but not LOG profiles in the RX100 to do the same thing but it does take away that extra advantage over the Panasonic if you do that. Again, though it's horses for courses, and if the purpose of wanting a compact is to primarily offer a better video option while travelling then that may play a part. If it's for more controlled shooting as a b camera for interviews or whatever then that'll be less of a factor. For what it's worth, I have thread mounts on both of them of course ? Speaking of thread mounts, in light of the debate on the Sony RX100M6 thread, I've picked up a very high quality screw on Sony 2x TC for a ridiculous £25 to have an experiment with. Suffice to say from early tests, my RX100M5 can now be an M6 whenever it feels like It works on the LX15 as well and a bit of lateral thinking has me now hunting down the wide equivalent for a similar bargain price to take care of the other end if I really need it. If I had to keep only one of these cameras then it would have to be the RX100M5 but that is purely because it has live HDMI output which is non negotiable for what I'm primarily using it for in a work capacity. If it was just for personal use as a compact camera where that wasn't a requirement then I think I'd go for the Panasonic with the Cinelike D hack because it's half the price, it's far more than half the camera for what I'd be using it for and not least because whoever does Sony's user interface is a sadist. Oh and it doesn't burn your hand if you have the temerity to want to use it for a while newfoundmass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelbb Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 @BTM_Pix Thank you very much for the interesting insights from someone who actually owns & uses the RX100 & LX15. I am glad to hear that it's possible to get a thread mount RX100 as inability to fit a filter was putting me off. Do you have a link to the teleconverter? I have seen some very cheap & nasty ones that are frankly a waste of money as just using digital zoom will produce a better image but if you have found a good one I would be interested. I am currently mostly using a Sony RX10 II which is 24mm at the wide end so am used to it & find it fine. I also have a Panasonic FZ1000 which is great at the long end with a 25-400mm FF equivalent for photographs but again it crops the sensor for video so for 4K video the lens is a 37 - 592mm FF equivalent. I am contemplating exchanging the two cameras for an RX10 III plus a tiny pocket camera & at present the RX100 is the top candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoScoops Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 On 6/8/2018 at 5:42 PM, webrunner5 said: A GH4 with a cheap kit lens is pretty hard to beat for the money. They are really not that big with a small lens on them. Why give up every trick in the book that the GH4 has over something that just makes the grade? There has been some killer stuff shot on a GH4. My thoughts too. And throw on a Tiffen satin, pro mist, or similar to take the digital edge off. webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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