The impact of 5D Mark III raw and what does Vincent Laforet think of it?

[Andrew Reid]

Excellent summary and update. I do share Vince's skepticism with regard to heat damage over a long period of time. Heat & Dust are the arch enemies of Digital Video and we know that 4K processing in a small container is going to result in parts decay eventually. Then again, this update is really for the installed base. I wouldn't run out and buy this camera just for 4K ( knowing that in the horse race, first out the gate, only sets the pace). No doubt, Nikon ( last out the gate) and the others are looking closely.
I'm still hopeful for that 4KRaw 10Bit in a smaller box but NOT a DSLR. Hell may freeze over before I get that wish fullfilled.

 

Heat occurs when you have heavy processing intensive tasks.

 

Copying data from RAM to a relatively slow compact flash is NOT processor intensive. It just isn't. Likely the buffer isn't even stressed, because it is running at less than a 7th of it's maximum transfer rate whilst it waits for the card to finish writing.

 

4k raw and 10bit... BM Production Camera. Hell may not freeze over after all, as long as there's no dirty glass over the sensor!!

[TC]

@Zephyrnoid  Despite a statement direct from the ML developers, it seems those sponsored by Canon are successfully sowing the seeds of doubt about heat damage.  Let me say it again as clearly as I can: raw = no processing.  That is what the word means.  Raw.  Unprocessed.  Uncooked.  Not compressed.  Not sent to an image processor.  That means LESS HEAT!

[TC]

FYI  Here is the latest card from Toshiba.  Seems like there is no 128GB model:

 

http://us.toshiba.com/computers/storage/flash/memory-cards/THNCF064GSGI

[Andrew Reid]

The Canon sponsored people are doing a great job of misunderstanding the technical aspects. Whether they do so on purpose or not, who knows? But it sure as hell is annoying.

 

Sensor

Live view is powered by the CMOS sensor. The camera buffer contains raw data from the sensor. The CMOS constantly reads out this data to supply a moving live view image on the LCD. Video came about on DSLRs as the camera could also compress this raw video stream and save it to a card. Since the sensor is already doing raw video during normal live view operation with the factory Canon firmware, there's no extra heat or stress penalty on the sensor for raw video with Magic Lantern.

 

Buffer

I think I read this is 512MB RAM at 700MB/s. RAM is also present in your laptop. It is constantly churching read / write cycles as you use the computer. RAM is designed to work constantly. It doesn't die through exhaustion like a mechanical part or the unfortunate Chinese worker who was tasked with making it in the first place.

 

DIGIC and card controller

Digic is designed for complex tasks like compressing the shit out of our lovely raw video stream. Now it can sit back and do something else, because with raw, there's no complex computation going on at all as TC pointed out above. The card controller is a simple off the shelf chip designed to write to the card like your $10 SD card reader. It won't blow up. It doesn't have the brains to get too hot!!

[kurth]

....512gb of ram ?

[bwhitz]

Really, it is time for a more open and honest debate on the merits of our DSLR community leaders I think.

I agree. These guys have not been supportive of RAW or other creative technological breakthroughs unless they are on $20,000+ cameras that only they can afford. They're either: A. Are getting paid to tote the C series cameras B. Don't like the competition
Or C. Don't want to put in the extra work to required for RAW workflows (and therefore don't want anyone else to either)

All reasons are bullcrap. I know Ive stopped listening to those guys a while ago. This is just icing on the cake...

[Andrew Reid]

Typo corrected. 512GB would be nice - put a SSD in there someone ;)

[Neumann Films]

I agree. These guys have not been supportive of RAW or other creative technological breakthroughs unless they are on $20,000+ cameras that only they can afford. They're either: A. Are getting paid to tote the C series cameras B. Don't like the competition
Or C. Don't want to put in the extra work to required for RAW workflows (and therefore don't want anyone else to either)

All reasons are bullcrap. I know Ive stopped listening to those guys a while ago. This is just icing on the cake...

 

D. They constantly need their ego massaged and hate it when they aren't the center of attention.  They need to find SOME angle on the story so they take one that they know will get "hits" even if it isn't in the best interests of the community that made them what they are.

[Andrew Reid]

I agree. These guys have not been supportive of RAW or other creative technological breakthroughs unless they are on $20,000+ cameras that only they can afford. They're either: A. Are getting paid to tote the C series cameras B. Don't like the competition
Or C. Don't want to put in the extra work to required for RAW workflows (and therefore don't want anyone else to either)

All reasons are bullcrap. I know Ive stopped listening to those guys a while ago. This is just icing on the cake...

 

I enjoyed Phil when he was genuinely putting out useful regular posts. Super 35mm adapters, DSLRs, all workarounds he endorsed. Built his name on DSLRs in fact, wouldn't have a well known blog without them. Now all I see is extreme self love and a formidable self obsession. Pics of Bloom on a plane. Pics of his cats. Instagram self portraits. Fooling about at NAB, Looping Vine videos. Posing here, posing there, posing doing this, posing doing that. It's enough to make you go insane. HAD ENOUGH

 

The cult of personality has overtaken the filmmaker for me. Hate all the moral posturing too. Philip uses the moral high ground and his sense of humour as defence mechanisms against those he doesn't agree with. His ego HATES any form of criticism however constructive. Sad really, as in doing so one is left with just Bloomies and groupies around you. Say you don't like so many ads on his blog and you are met with standard response THIS BLOG COSTS SO MUCH TO RUN, and he tries to claim the high ground. I know how much blogs cost to run. Very little. In the past I did EOSHD one-handed on a shoestring for years. So make no mistake, the blog is to promote Philip Bloom. It is not only a selfless act of sharing he makes it out to be.

 

Met Phil quite a few times, each time has been odd. Charming and coldly indifferent at the same time. At Photokina, he belittled me and basically humiliated me in front of two strangers in the name of humour knowing it was inappropriate in the circumstances - very barbed passive aggressive exchanges disguised as humour, really uncomfortable to be subjected to. On other occasions he was fine. I think he has issues.

[JHines]

Naysayers and narcissistic brand pushers can poo-poo all they want on ML's raw developments. They can hide their jealousy through honest and thoughtful posts on why the general public doesn't need what pros need. They can pretend like they are excited only just a little about the raw developments. However, their relationship with Canon is too important and they will continue to push the 8-bit cinema line as "the way to go." People are clearly seeing this and these industry heads (who gained all their popularity due to the HDSLR-revolution) are losing credibility they'll never win back. My bet is pretty soon you'll see positive posts from some of these industry heads to go into damage-control mode to try and regain the credibility they already lost. I'm so glad we have honest people like Andrew and Neumann Films who are genuinely excited for the sheer image-qualtiy now possible, FOR FREE, that was previously hidden from our 5D's by Canon.  

[Neumann Films]

Naysayers and narcissistic brand pushers can poo-poo all they want on ML's raw developments. They can hide their jealousy through honest and thoughtful posts on why the general public doesn't need what pros need. They can pretend like they are excited only just a little about the raw developments. However, their relationship with Canon is too important and they will continue to push the 8-bit cinema line as "the way to go." People are clearly seeing this and these industry heads (who gained all their popularity due to the HDSLR-revolution) are losing credibility they'll never win back. My bet is pretty soon you'll see positive posts from some of these industry heads to go into damage-control mode to try and regain the credibility they already lost. I'm so glad we have honest people like Andrew and Neumann Films who are genuinely excited for the sheer image-qualtiy now possible, FOR FREE, that was previously hidden from our 5D's by Canon.  

 

TBH, most of the praise goes to Magic Lantern.  I can't speak for Andrew but I have just felt like a kid in a candy store playing around with this raw footage.  It's a total Robin Hood story and PB + others are unknowingly taking on the role of the Sheriff.  

[nahua]

Heat occurs when you have heavy processing intensive tasks.

 

Copying data from RAM to a relatively slow compact flash is NOT processor intensive. It just isn't. Likely the buffer isn't even stressed, because it is running at less than a 7th of it's maximum transfer rate whilst it waits for the card to finish writing.

 

4k raw and 10bit... BM Production Camera. Hell may not freeze over after all, as long as there's no dirty glass over the sensor!!

I was one of the first people to be worried about heat.  But then again, I haven't shot video on my mkIII since I got my GH3 in December last year.  I just shot surfing over 3 hours in the hot bright sun with my 5dmkIII and it's just fine.  I think all the concerns over heat are much ado about nothing.  And we also have a tank of a camera - weather sealed with excellent lenses to boot.  I'm loving this!

[Andrew Reid]

I am blown away by the quality. Moving raw photos. Full frame at that. It hasn't been done before. Now here it is for free.

 

Canon charge you $12,000 for a moving JPEG photo.

 

Bloom gets excited about that.

 

Moving raw photo for free? OUUUHH noo thats rubbish. Not shooting with that!

 

Logic has died a death there.

 

The mighty dollar and mighty ego rule supreme.

[Neumann Films]

I enjoyed Phil when he was genuinely putting out useful regular posts. Super 35mm adapters, DSLRs, all workarounds he endorsed. Built his name on DSLRs in fact, wouldn't have a well known blog without them. Now all I see is extreme self love and a formidable self obsession. Pics of Bloom on a plane. Pics of his cats. Instagram self portraits. Fooling about at NAB, Looping Vine videos. Posing here, posing there, posing doing this, posing doing that. It's enough to make you go insane. HAD ENOUGH

 

The cult of personality has overtaken the filmmaker for me. Hate all the moral posturing too. Philip uses the moral high ground and his sense of humour as defence mechanisms against those he doesn't agree with. His ego HATES any form of criticism however constructive. Sad really, as in doing so one is left with just Bloomies and groupies around you. Say you don't like so many ads on his blog and you are met with standard response THIS BLOG COSTS SO MUCH TO RUN, and he tries to claim the high ground. I know how much blogs cost to run. Very little. In the past I did EOSHD one-handed on a shoestring for years. So make no mistake, the blog is to promote Philip Bloom. It is not only a selfless act of sharing he makes it out to be.

 

Met Phil quite a few times, each time has been odd. Charming and coldly indifferent at the same time. At Photokina, he belittled me and basically humiliated me in front of two strangers in the name of humour knowing it was inappropriate in the circumstances - very barbed passive aggressive exchanges disguised as humour, really uncomfortable to be subjected to. On other occasions he was fine. I think he has issues.

 

 

To the point of Bloom humiliating you in person.  I noticed the same thing when I watched a video with Nick Campbell and him.  Taking little potshots at him for no apparent reason.  

[matt2491]

FYI  Here is the latest card from Toshiba.  Seems like there is no 128GB model:

 

http://us.toshiba.com/computers/storage/flash/memory-cards/THNCF064GSGI

 

Looks seriously awesome. Substantially higher write speeds. Found them for sale for about $300 here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/64-GB-Toshiba-Exceria-Pro-1066x-Compact-Flash-Memory-CF-Card-Ultra-High-Speed-/321106087953?pt=Digital_Camera_Memory_Cards&hash=item4ac36a1011

 

Wonder if its worth a try?

[kabuto1138]

It doesn't die through exhaustion like a mechanical part or the unfortunate Chinese worker who was tasked with making it in the first place.

 

That comment just made my night.

 

I personally think that people like Bloom etc, or even Laforet (game changer was the MOVI for 15k?... still not over that) is that now people with probably less resources than them will have RAW, for less money than them and their expensive cams(which they probably get free or at least cheaper than the average joe).  And that's probably scary to them.  They both supported greatly if not amazingly the 5D2.  They helped start the DSLR revolution.... but now? they are way pass that point, and sadly forgot about that point in their careers.

 

btw, this IS the game changer we were hoping would happen when waited, and waited, and waited for the 5d3... thanks ML

[tehgeek]

I enjoyed Phil when he was genuinely putting out useful regular posts. Super 35mm adapters, DSLRs, all workarounds he endorsed. Built his name on DSLRs in fact, wouldn't have a well known blog without them. Now all I see is extreme self love and a formidable self obsession. Pics of Bloom on a plane. Pics of his cats. Instagram self portraits. Fooling about at NAB, Looping Vine videos. Posing here, posing there, posing doing this, posing doing that. It's enough to make you go insane. HAD ENOUGH

 

The cult of personality has overtaken the filmmaker for me. Hate all the moral posturing too. Philip uses the moral high ground and his sense of humour as defence mechanisms against those he doesn't agree with. His ego HATES any form of criticism however constructive. Sad really, as in doing so one is left with just Bloomies and groupies around you. Say you don't like so many ads on his blog and you are met with standard response THIS BLOG COSTS SO MUCH TO RUN, and he tries to claim the high ground. I know how much blogs cost to run. Very little. In the past I did EOSHD one-handed on a shoestring for years. So make no mistake, the blog is to promote Philip Bloom. It is not only a selfless act of sharing he makes it out to be.

 

Met Phil quite a few times, each time has been odd. Charming and coldly indifferent at the same time. At Photokina, he belittled me and basically humiliated me in front of two strangers in the name of humour knowing it was inappropriate in the circumstances - very barbed passive aggressive exchanges disguised as humour, really uncomfortable to be subjected to. On other occasions he was fine. I think he has issues.

 

All this coming from the guy who blocks anyone on twitter who disagrees with him.

[FilmMan]

Remember when the 5D3 came out to update the weaknesses from the 5D2?  Wasn't it Bloom who advised that you could sharpen the image from the 5d3 in post?   :)  

[Oedipax]

The biggest claim to relevance most of these cameras bloggers have is early access to gear. Magic Lantern doing their thing openly where anyone can download/install (or even compile alternate builds) and have a play with it really overturns that hype hierarchy and puts the celebrity camera bloggers on the defensive, playing catchup.

 

I don't want to sound like I'm attacking them personally, but seriously, put any of their "short films" (which are typically nothing more than camera tests anyway) up against real filmmakers and it's pitiful. I mean the whole thing is just so transparently about marketing, the people who are still hanging on their words are a lost cause anyway, unless they're new to all this and haven't figured it out yet.

 

It is rather amusing to see them backpedal and try to justify the positions they're taking in order to downplay a free firmware upgrade giving 14-bit RAW on a full-frame sensor. I mean just read that sentence a few times and really think about it. Laughable.

[Germy1979]

The Canon sponsored people are doing a great job of misunderstanding the technical aspects. Whether they do so on purpose or not, who knows? But it sure as hell is annoying.

The slap in the face is really that they didn't think anyone would be smart enough to find out there was a raw feed coming right off the sensor.