The impact of 5D Mark III raw and what does Vincent Laforet think of it?

[avrofilmvideo]

Sachtler watch out.

Regarding ML 5d mk3 firware. Can they make peaking usable. Current one is unusable.
Also patch for 1.2.1 canon firmware would be handy. They should concentrate 100% on 5d mk3 only and not waste time on other camera...

[HurtinMinorKey]

Canon won't sue their own customers. They will just refuse any liability for Magic Lantern cameras and probably won't honour warranties.

 

In my view the hardware isn't stressed, isn't overheating, batteries won't burnt into flames. Canon should know this - their engineers will - although maybe some of the advisors and reps will think otherwise. Software directly blow up silicon. Heat does that. Heat is a by product of software that stresses the hardware. Raw is not processor intensive. Compression is! Why do you think Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera can do raw with no fan in a tiny case for $999 and the Epic with compressed Red Code raw has to have a very powerful ASIC, big fans and massive heat sink?

 

 

 

I agree. It appears the sensor isn't doing something that it wasn't doing already. High fps is what generates heat on a sensor. As far as I can tell, ML is just redirecting a stream that already existed to the CF Card. 

[Andrew Reid]

Sachtler watch out.

Regarding ML 5d mk3 firware. Can they make peaking usable. Current one is unusable.
Also patch for 1.2.1 canon firmware would be handy. They should concentrate 100% on 5d mk3 only and not waste time on other camera...

 

Any other requests boss??!

[Andrew Reid]

As far as I can tell, ML is just redirecting a stream that already existed to the CF Card. 

 

I have been saying this for 5 days now.

[avrofilmvideo]

Do you really want more?

Peaking,hdmi 50p out, 1920-1080 / 50p 4:2:2. This wil do but did i mention PEAKING.

[Andrew Reid]

Why do you need HDMI 50p out when you have internal 50p raw?

 

Raw 1080p 50p is very unlikely it requires very high data rates. I have 1280x540 at 50p working OK though, in raw.

 

H.264 1080p 50p - no idea if possible.

 

Peaking is already in there but I use it on the SmallHD DP6 via HDMI for monitoring.

[avrofilmvideo]

Peakin feature is not usable.
I do not need RAW. i need reliable 4:2:2 codec internal/ external. ;-). (50P/1920-1080). I will donate $100 for this feature with broadcast peking.
Please provide usable Peaking..

[Oscar M.]

Excellent summary and update. I do share Vince's skepticism with regard to heat damage over a long period of time. Heat & Dust are the arch enemies of Digital Video and we know that 4K processing in a small container is going to result in parts decay eventually. Then again, this update is really for the installed base. I wouldn't run out and buy this camera just for 4K ( knowing that in the horse race, first out the gate, only sets the pace). No doubt, Nikon ( last out the gate) and the others are looking closely.
I'm still hopeful for that 4KRaw 10Bit in a smaller box but NOT a DSLR. Hell may freeze over before I get that wish fullfilled.

 

People still don't get how the Camera actually processes images. I'm going to oversimplify this . . . Magic Lantern is doing nothing more than saving "LIVE VIEW". If heat were an issue, then it would be an issue without Magic Lantern since these cameras were engineered with Live View in mind and. . . . Live View puts out RAW anyway.

 

Consider this analogy:  

 

Imagine a river that runs down a mountain. At or near the top of the river you can get pure, clear water. Near the bottom of the mountain, the water looks murky and polluted from various animals, dirt, trees and other processes. A few guys that lived near the bottom of the river decided to obtain clean water from this river but did not have the means to set up a water processing plant. So, they decided instead to travel up river to where the water is free of pollutants. They setup shop on the side of the river so as not to pollute the river themselves and with simple empty buckets, they scoop up crisp, clear water for cooking and drinking.

 

RIVER = Canon DSLR Camera

WATER = Live View

GUYS DOWN RIVER = Magic Lantern Firmware

COOKING & DRINKING = CF Card and Post processing workflows (garbage in, garbage out!)

 

 

GET IT?

[markm]

Oscar your analogy doesn't work. That RAW live view massive image is now written onto newly developed cards So for that much information to get written onto the card it must create heat. Maybe not as much as line skipping binning or whatever the 5D does But maybe more. 

But so far so good. 

[blackrat]

Oscar your analogy doesn't work. That RAW live view massive image is now written onto newly developed cards So for that much information to get written onto the card it must create heat. Maybe not as much as line skipping binning or whatever the 5D does But maybe more. 

But so far so good. 

What about sports guys firing off 18MP 12fps bursts all the time? Reading from the card to transfer to a computer at maximum speed? I think these cards were designed to be able to work at max rate for extended periods of time.

[peederj]

I am not concerned about the camera burning out as much as I am about the cards. A lot more write cycles and a lot more intense then typical expectation. But I guess you can view them as disposable if your work deserves RAW treatment. However there is no way at all to have redundancy, and you can easily blow a $5000 shooting day if your cards are toast at the end of it. Total failure you might detect with periodic offloads but the worst would be glitches and skips right in your best takes that you don't see till long after wrap.

 

Simultaneous uncompressed HDMI out to a Ninja would be a nice safety...a proxy on the internal SD card would be at least something. I always record to the internal SD cards on the C100 even though they are only safeties for the Ninja footage. Regardless, we are going to learn everything about the state of Compact Flash in the coming weeks.

[Oscar M.]

Oscar your analogy doesn't work. That RAW live view massive image is now written onto newly developed cards So for that much information to get written onto the card it must create heat. Maybe not as much as line skipping binning or whatever the 5D does But maybe more. 

But so far so good. 

 

Canon's firmware is saving that massive image to the camera's internal buffers which is then output to Live View - as Alex explained it. All ML is doing is saving the buffer to CF. These internal buffers are engineered by Canon to be very fast buffers which is why they can handle 4K RAW BURST Stills mode.

 

The bottleneck is in the speed of the cards - CF Cards are just not fast enough for 4K RAW 30fps bursts (even the 1000x cards). They are though fast enough for a crop mode of that such as 1920x720. This bottleneck will not last much longer as manufacturers are sure to increase the performance of these cards.

 

As I see it, the temperature sensor in the camera does not lie - the tests have shown that the temperature has not increased very much. OTH, CF Cards temperatures will indeed increase as they will work harder to write the files, but even that won't be an issue as the cards get faster as well.

[Oscar M.]

I am not concerned about the camera burning out as much as I am about the cards. A lot more write cycles and a lot more intense then typical expectation. But I guess you can view them as disposable if your work deserves RAW treatment. However there is no way at all to have redundancy, and you can easily blow a $5000 shooting day if your cards are toast at the end of it. Total failure you might detect with periodic offloads but the worst would be glitches and skips right in your best takes that you don't see till long after wrap.

Simultaneous uncompressed HDMI out to a Ninja would be a nice safety...a proxy on the internal SD card would be at least something. I always record to the internal SD cards on the C100 even though they are only safeties for the Ninja footage. Regardless, we are going to learn everything about the state of Compact Flash in the coming weeks.

It's a matter of CF hardware reliability. A card that can handle the speeds from a reliable manufacturer should be sufficient. Isn't that how we shoot h.264 anyway? My gut feeling is that ML will figure out a way to get RAW out the HDMI, or a CF to SATA adapter is going to be made by someone out there.

[AnotherDave]

A CF to SATA SSD adapter sounds like the logical conclusion to me.

 

I want my HDMI port for my EVF.

 

I bet we'll see CF to SSD adapters within days.  CF cards are essentially IDE drives anyway.  It should be very possible to get the FULL 167MB/sec from the UDMA 7 standard in the 5D3 to a SSD.  

 

*Note: this is a good place for you entrepreneurs out there to start your million dollar idea!  

[MaxAperture Films]

If Nikon jumped into the RAW video game and began offering some sort of live view RAW recording mode with stable/official support I imagine they could also put a nice dent in Canon's high-end cinema camera market.

 

Doesn't seem like there would be a downside for Nikon if they could achieve similar results to ML.  I can almost see it happening due to the fact that they were first to release a camera with uncompressed HDMI support (D800) while also expressing a commitment to further develop video features in their DSLRs.  Perhaps the Expeed buffer architecture is too slow to achieve the same results as Canon, but who knows.

[Leica50mm]

Well, the next zacuto shoot out should be really interesting . Remember how well the hacked gh2 did in it.

[TravisW]

I'm super excited about this, but it's still so early--no one else is a little uncomfortable at the claims that this matches the Alexa's image quality, without any empirical review to back that up?

 

Again, I'm not hating--I am seriously considering making a 5D purchase instead of BMCC at the end of this summer, thanks to this.

 

However, if we're saying "let's keep negativity in check", the same goes for positivity. Or has there been a direct comparison to the Alex and/or RED cameras that I missed? Thanks!

[VanWeddings]

what i like about EOSHD is that it tells the truth, always covers the most interesting topics, and places quality content before referral sales. i really can't find another site like this. thank you andrew!

 

while my work is least suited to a raw workflow, my eyes don't lie. anyone who dismisses the superlative quality of raw from the 5d3 is either blind or has a vested interest against it.

[tehgeek]

I am not concerned about the camera burning out as much as I am about the cards. A lot more write cycles and a lot more intense then typical expectation. But I guess you can view them as disposable if your work deserves RAW treatment. However there is no way at all to have redundancy, and you can easily blow a $5000 shooting day if your cards are toast at the end of it. Total failure you might detect with periodic offloads but the worst would be glitches and skips right in your best takes that you don't see till long after wrap.

 

Simultaneous uncompressed HDMI out to a Ninja would be a nice safety...a proxy on the internal SD card would be at least something. I always record to the internal SD cards on the C100 even though they are only safeties for the Ninja footage. Regardless, we are going to learn everything about the state of Compact Flash in the coming weeks.

 

This is exactly why "some people" aren't jumping up and down about this HACK. Is it a cool and interesting development? Of course. Would you rely on it working for a paid gig? FUCK NO. For hobbyists this is a great thing and if they can extend the recording time from 40 seconds to several minutes that will be fantastic. Yes 40 seconds is ok but in the real world it will not cut it at all.

[Richard Collins]

In the last few days, both Andrew and Luke have cleared my 'video/filmmaker' bookmarks folder in one fell swoop! The pioneering attitude and spirit to accepting this amazing development is utterly refreshing. The other bloggers' (you all know who!), have become stale and self indulgent.

 

I personally, don't yet have the need to shoot raw, as my work doesn't require it... (yet!) I shoot on the C100, 7D and the Sony F5 of late, yet I still find this development one of the most important of at least my career.

 

Hats off to Nuemann Films and EOSHD, you guys will absolutely be my future go tos!