The impact of 5D Mark III raw and what does Vincent Laforet think of it?

[FilmMan]

Exciting times with the "raw" with the ML programming.  I used to pester some of the ML folk for developments, such as 422, etc.  I don't know if people remember my Magic Lantern posts from the past.   I'd get really excited and nothing would happen.  Now there exists RAW!  Their unique programming they have produced has taken a lot of grunt work.  It has taken a lot of time.  It isn't simple.  People should embrace the technology.  Raw will be used by some people and it won't be for others. 

 

Remember how long it took Red to get things going.  It wasn't simple.  Recording media developed and changed over time.  It wasn't snap the fingers and bam it is here.  It took trial and error.  Look at the Black Magic Camera.  It is here yet it isn't.  It has been a learning curve for that company.  I own the 1DC.  Is it a perfect camera.  Nope but I do like it.  It has taken a while to get used to it - I'm slow - maybe partially retarded when it comes to film making.  

 

With any business, the company wants to make money.  Built in obsolesce is common in today's world.  Bought a dishwasher.  The f'n top spinning arm lasts for a year and falls off.  Residual income for the dishwasher manufacturer with me buying new sh*t part.  With cameras, companies are in the game to make money.  They are not our friend.   There seems to be usually a catch when the deal looks good. 

 

What is my point on the above rambling?   I'm not too sure.  Only felt like typing.  Cheers and enjoy the raw if using it.  It will lead to bigger and better things.     

[mtheory]

[Zach]

wow...just wow. hahahaha

[Shawn_Lights]

Too much time on your hands buddy lol

[Andrew Reid]

I like the sponsorships part. Very funny :)

[peederj]

with the new firmware and clean hdmi out, my assistants are complaining about a lag in the video now which makes pulling focus a little harder, any word if that is really a consequence of the new firmware upgrade, or has it really been there all the ime, ive never noticed it until the last shoot.

 

I just confirmed there is a lag in the new 1.2.1 firmware clean HDMI for the 5D3. About half a second late on the Ninja 2 screen, which is annoying but not awful. A lot of 1080p HDMI implementations have it. The C100's implementation doesn't have it.

 

Point to the ML hack.

[Andrew Reid]

"Point to the ML hack"

 

Oh you are generous. Raw over laggy shitty looking HDMI is worth one point?

 

You're not easily pleased are you?

[peederj]

"Point to the ML hack"

 

Oh you are generous. Raw over laggy shitty looking HDMI is worth one point?

 

You're not easily pleased are you?

 

And you are? =p

 

BTW the built-in LCD on 1.2.1 is about a quarter of a second late. So there is lag, lag, everywhere lag! C100 is fast.

[Andrew Reid]

But it shoots raw!

 

Perspective.

[peederj]

But it shoots raw!

 

Perspective.

 

I wasn't totaling the score, the scorer's table just awarded one point to the ML hack vs. the Ninja due to the additional 250ms delay in showing the 5D3 image on the Ninja screen. For comparison, the C100 is something like 70ms out to the Ninja it looks, and half that onto its own LCD.

 

The total score RAW vs. HDMI->Ninja is what we're tabulating in all this debate. I'm actually neutral in the debate; getting a second Ninja is about the cost of a stack of Komputerbays. What will put the ML hack way over the top is 4K or 6K MJPEG. If they do that (and again, it should be a slam dunk, the only possible speed bump would be how fast the JPEG compression can work with only one Digic 5, but even that has got to be fast enough given the Digic 4 was already able to do something like 10fps and the Digic 5 is supposedly 10x as fast a chip) I will definitely not buy a second Ninja but will instead use the ML hack on the 5D3.

 

I think regardless the C100 + Ninja 2 will be a better filmmaking system than the ML RAW for nearly everyone. The 5D3 will be an awesome alternate brush to paint with. Glad I only bought Canon mount glass, it was rough for a while there but like a happy movie it all worked out in the end.

 

Also please consider what 25fps 6K is going to do to the stills photography world. The 1DC was hyped to stills people for its 8MP JPEGs imagine 22.3MP JPEGs at 25fps anywhere you might use continuous drive (sports, wildlife, fashion...). It's gonna happen! The 2MP RAW was just the appetizer!

[peederj]

One more thing. When they get MJPEGs going out to the CF efficiently I would think they should be able to do 2K at least 60fps if not much higher. A RAW file is what, 5x the size of a good JPEG pixel for pixel? So perhaps 120fps 1080p is in reach on a hacked 5D3 with 1000x cards.

 

It will depend if frames are provided to the buffer that quickly. The rolling shutter performance we saw doesn't seem promising for HFR, but the output side shouldn't be limiting.

[Edward Zaee]

Well , I'm a 7D owner and I don't know what to do, raw is so exciting, but 5D Mark III is an expensive camera, for some extra dollars I could buy a 4k Blackmagic camera. 

 

 

 

[Ben Prater]

Well , I'm a 7D owner and I don't know what to do, raw is so exciting, but 5D Mark III is an expensive camera, for some extra dollars I could buy a 4k Blackmagic camera. 

If you are on a budget -- wait for the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera in a couple months. It'll be $1000 -- and will have comparable footage to the hacked 5D3, including RAW.

[jgharding]

with the new firmware and clean hdmi out, my assistants are complaining about a lag in the video now which makes pulling focus a little harder, any word if that is really a consequence of the new firmware upgrade, or has it really been there all the ime, ive never noticed it until the last shoot.

 

Yes indeed, it's a bug of the new firmware  that a lot of people are finding annoying, apparently. Perhaps backdate the firmware.

[JORSLUK]

If you are on a budget -- wait for the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera in a couple months. It'll be $1000 -- and will have comparable footage to the hacked 5D3, including RAW.

 

 

 

Yeah, but not full frame, low ISO capabilities..anyway it looks pretty good

[Edward Zaee]

I'm worried about 3x crop factor and the low light performance. If you want the Blackmagic Pocket Camera then you'll have to spend another $1000 for a decent wide and fast lens.  Voiglander Nokton.

[Andrew Reid]

One more thing. When they get MJPEGs going out to the CF efficiently I would think they should be able to do 2K at least 60fps if not much higher. A RAW file is what, 5x the size of a good JPEG pixel for pixel? So perhaps 120fps 1080p is in reach on a hacked 5D3 with 1000x cards.

 

It will depend if frames are provided to the buffer that quickly. The rolling shutter performance we saw doesn't seem promising for HFR, but the output side shouldn't be limiting.

 

The problem with MJPEG is the CPU power to debayer and convert raw to JPEG inside the camera. That takes a hell of a lot of processing power. The easiest thing for the camera to do is raw! Not H.264. Not MJPEG. Not ProRes. Not anything. Just raw.

 

Saying the camera could do 2k 60fps in MJPEG makes no sense at all. The CPU would not do it. Also the sensor mode only goes to 60fps with a vertical resolution of around 670.

 

With the newest builds we are seeing a 16MB/s improvement in buffer write performance to the card and that makes 1440x540 possible at 60fps. Pretty nice. If you want to add a massive overhead to this lovely raw performance, the quickest way to do that is to convert o MJPEG in camera... It ain't gonna happen!

[peederj]

The problem with MJPEG is the CPU power to debayer and convert raw to JPEG inside the camera. That takes a hell of a lot of processing power. The easiest thing for the camera to do is raw! Not H.264. Not MJPEG. Not ProRes. Not anything. Just raw.

 

Saying the camera could do 2k 60fps in MJPEG makes no sense at all. The CPU would not do it. Also the sensor mode only goes to 60fps with a vertical resolution of around 670.

 

With the newest builds we are seeing a 16MB/s improvement in buffer write performance to the card and that makes 1440x540 possible at 60fps. Pretty nice. If you want to add a massive overhead to this lovely raw performance, the quickest way to do that is to convert o MJPEG in camera... It ain't gonna happen!

 

Onto a fast CF card, the 5D3 can do 6fps uncropped 22.3MP JPEGs in continuous drive without ever overflowing the buffer and having to slow down. At least this is my understanding. 

 

Simple math therefore suggests that it could also do 60fps 2.23 MP JPEGs. And 1080p is a bit less than 2MP.

 

Why wouldn't simple math apply?

[gibbygoo]

Story matters most. Sorry.

[Andrew Reid]

Onto a fast CF card, the 5D3 can do 6fps uncropped 22.3MP JPEGs in continuous drive without ever overflowing the buffer and having to slow down. At least this is my understanding. 

 

Simple math therefore suggests that it could also do 60fps 2.23 MP JPEGs. And 1080p is a bit less than 2MP.

 

Why wouldn't simple math apply?

 

Because it isn't simple maths. It's hard maths.