Any ideas for a general-purpose zoom for MFT?

[Jim Giberti]

If I'm using a zoom for speed (setup) reasons on commercial stuff, I can shoot all day with the Sigma 18-35 w/ dumb adapter (35 -70mm.) Just a great lens that can cover a lot like that.

If we're moving around, action/documentary style w/ monopods and smaller support gear then I think the Olympus 12-40 (24-80mm) is pretty much an ideal zoom in that it's much smaller and lighter obviously and perhaps even sharper. It's just a great utility lens that's got a great manual focus clutch.

Again, IMO there isn't a zoom that can draw an image like the Sigma. It's a one-of-a-kind piece of glass.

But for one small lens that can cover all the bases from wide to portrait and render really sharp, contrasty and rich images the 12-40 is my second favorite zoom.

[Mmmbeats]

I feel like a bit of a 'dumb adapter' myself, for only just realising the potential of the 18-35 on a non-speedbooster adapter ?.

[canonlyme]

Can anyone one recommend a good "dumb" adapter for the sigma? Would be interested too

Maybe it can be smart too... 

[Jim Giberti]

We use a couple of Nikon mount Metabones "dumb adapters" - nicknamed so because the have no electronics, but a full manual iris that will work with any Nikon G/F mount lenses.

They're really well built like the speedbooster versions but with no glass obviously...around $150 I think.

I'm sure there are a lot cheaper versions but MB makes nice gear and these are great.

And to the crop thing with the Sigma on a MFT sensor. Obviously if you shoot a lot in the 24 - 50mm range then a SB is a good option. That's why I like both the Oly and Sigma as zooms in the kit. The Sigma shines in the 35-70mm relative range. There are a number of nice 12mm MFT options for wider work and the Oly at 12mm (24mm) is really as good as most primes...the Rok 12mm f/2 is one I always carry going light. I really like the Sigma 50mm art as a closeup lens with the 18-35 but again for a lighter kit I have the Rok 50mm f1.2 which is a great, fast little mft portrait lens.

Really looking forward to using these on the pair of BM P4Ks on preorder.

[Cinegain]

On 1/20/2017 at 2:33 AM, Cinegain said:

[..] if you need lens adapters, I highly recommend the ones from K&F (Kent & Faith) Concept (listings on eBay usually have the black box with orange accents in them, there's another brand 'Leinox' which is pretty good as well, they're shown with thumbnails of the adapter and a black box with brownish/copper accents). [..]

Of course these are the real 'dumb adapters', not just non-'focal reducers' but also no electronics. But I decided to use Nikon as the primary lens mount anyways (the most flexible to adapt and the cheapest since a lot of 'em run via mechanical focus mechanisms). But going that Viltrox EF MFT route might not be such a crazy idea...

[Mmmbeats]

And just to state the obvious, in case anyone had overlooked it, you could also use a 'smart' adaptor (with electronic aperture control but no optics) for the same reach advantages, but at a heftier price.

[ozmorphasis]

It's too bad that there aren't too many modern lenses in the 17-55mm F2.8 range with really great optics AND handling.  The fujinon Mk is awesome but expensive.

The Sigma 18-35mm is fantastic and it's the lens that stays on my cameras most often, but in a lot of doc situations doesn't get far enough into a portrait range for my taste...even with a dumb adapter, so I still have to do a lens change that slows things down.

For doc work, there is a reason why the 17-55mm EF-s lens is ubiquitous.  The optics are decent (but not amazing) for sure, but it's mainly the range combined with the stabilizer that makes it popular.  

That Angeniuex linked in a previous post looks really intriguing but not easy to find.  

I find the focus ring on pretty much all of the 17(or 18)-50(55)mm F2.8 to be pretty meh.  Tokina, Sigma, Canon, etc.  

If someone comes out with a killer Fujinon Mk style lens but at half the cost (giving up perfect parfocal and no breathing), but with a fantastic focus ring like on the Sigma Art lenses, they would have a hit on their hands.  Basically, Sigma needs to do a 17-55 F2.8 Art lens.  24-70 is not wide enough for most doc work on a crop sensor even speedboosted, but the 17-55mm gives you wide enough and just barely reaches far enough into the portrait range to help you forego the need to carry an extra 50mm to compliment the workhorse wider zooms like the 18-35mm.  

 

[Mmmbeats]

So, since the advice on this thread I've been using the Sigma 18-35 with a Metabones smart adaptor on my Gh4 with decent results.

I've recently upgraded to the Gh5S, and had yet another idea for this challenge!

As a reminder - I'm after a general range zoom (somewhere within 20 - 100 equivalent range) that allows for some degree of shallow DoF options for medium shots. The kind of thing that full frame users can enjoy with a f/2.8 or f/4 lens.

So I already own a Metabones S adaptor (basically the same as the Ultra), and now also the non-speedboosting smart adaptor. My thought is whether the Ultra might help me realise my general zoom aim?

I'm working on the understanding that it is not actually sensor size that increases DoF for a given composition, but the change in either camera distance to subject, or focal length required. So I'm wondering whether having the XL paired with something like a full frame 24 - 70 would make enough of a difference to be worthwhile?

It would make me feel a bit queasy splashing out for yet another Metabones adaptor. But, bearing in mind that I'm seriously considering buying a new camera body just to deal with this issue, it might actually work out more cost effective!

[Kisaha]

what stabilized native m43 lens for workhorse zoom?

The Olympus 12-100mm is an option, but a 1400euros one.

What 2.8f APS-C speedbooster (and stabilized) lens do you people use?

[BTM_Pix]

17 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

what stabilized native m43 lens for workhorse zoom?

The Olympus 12-100mm is an option, but a 1400euros one.

What 2.8f APS-C speedbooster (and stabilized) lens do you people use?

For the money (£150-200) a used Tamron SP AF17-50mm f2.8 zoom on a speed booster has a lot going for it as a constant aperture stabilised 24-70mm equivalent.

Not exactly the quietest lens in the world but I can't think of anything that gets you that performance at anywhere near that price.

Its quite light in the bag as well as on the pocket too.

 

[Mmmbeats]

I'm going to do some tests on this at some point. I'll post them up here.

[j_one]

I got the 4/3 panaleica 14-50mm f2.8-3.5 OIS with adapter on my bmpcc, for $300. Not quite LX100 spec but the lens peaked my interest, I was curious when I heard about the "leica rendering" and great IQ for a zoom. No speed booster glass in the way, super sharp, and OIS for my pocket via 4/3 adapter electronics, at least no more micro jitters

 

Cons: it's big and heavy for m43 system, autofocus is useless, and the OIS is pretty dated in performance especially for video use. Otherwise...yeah. leica rendering indeed. Just good glass.

 

Cheers

[Kisaha]

13 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

For the money (£150-200) a used Tamron SP AF17-50mm f2.8 zoom on a speed booster has a lot going for it as a constant aperture stabilised 24-70mm equivalent.

Not exactly the quietest lens in the world but I can't think of anything that gets you that performance at anywhere near that price.

Its quite light in the bag as well as on the pocket too.

 

This, may, or may not, could be interesting for an all arounder. Definitely slower in the 23-50 range, but it is longer and has some macro capabilities.

Sigma 17-70mm F/2.8-4 DC OS HSM Macro 

Also, with the Dec Regain, a 18-135mm USM could be a handy 13.5-100mm.

[BTM_Pix]

3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

This, may, or may not, could be interesting for an all arounder. Definitely slower in the 23-50 range, but it is longer and has some macro capabilities.

Sigma 17-70mm F/2.8-4 DC OS HSM Macro 

Also, with the Dec Regain, a 18-135mm USM could be a handy 13.5-100mm.

Yeah, the Tamron is a little bit short on the long end compared to the Sigma.

Having said that though, you can make up for some of the restriction of the Tamron that by having a non-speedboosted EF>MFT adapter in your bag and still have the speed advantage of it being f2.8.

I suppose it depends on what MFT it is going on as well as you have ETC mode on the Panasonic and of course the fully variable mode on an LS300.

I'm not holding my breath on BM doing it but a switchable 1.1 or 1.2x crop mode on the Pocket4K would be a welcome addition to give a bit more flexibility but also to deal with some of the sketchy edge performance on some native lenses and vignetting on speed boosted APS-C lenses.

The 18-135mm USM is interesting as well because of the power zoom adapter that they do for it. 

The combo can be picked up used for under £400 which is an interesting proposition if someone is looking for something comparable to the flexibility of the Olympus 12-100 f4 at a significant saving.

 

[Kisaha]

39 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Yeah, the Tamron is a little bit short on the long end compared to the Sigma.

Having said that though, you can make up for some of the restriction of the Tamron that by having a non-speedboosted EF>MFT adapter in your bag and still have the speed advantage of it being f2.8.

I suppose it depends on what MFT it is going on as well as you have ETC mode on the Panasonic and of course the fully variable mode on an LS300.

I'm not holding my breath on BM doing it but a switchable 1.1 or 1.2x crop mode on the Pocket4K would be a welcome addition to give a bit more flexibility but also to deal with some of the sketchy edge performance on some native lenses and vignetting on speed boosted APS-C lenses.

The 18-135mm USM is interesting as well because of the power zoom adapter that they do for it. 

The combo can be picked up used for under £400 which is an interesting proposition if someone is looking for something comparable to the flexibility of the Olympus 12-100 f4 at a significant saving.

 

Exactly my thoughts. The USM with the power zoom can be a great run n gun combo. I love the lens on a C100mkII but I do not like the wide end, with a  speedbooster can have an amazing range (13.5-101mm, depending the crop factor) and with a dumb adapter you have a 36-270mm!

BM must polish some of those edges if they want their camera to be accessible to more people.

[Thpriest]

3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Exactly my thoughts. The USM with the power zoom can be a great run n gun combo. I love the lens on a C100mkII but I do not like the wide end, with a  speedbooster can have an amazing range (13.5-101mm, depending the crop factor) and with a dumb adapter you have a 36-270mm!

BM must polish some of those edges if they want their camera to be accessible to more people.

Does the 18-135 work with a Speedbooster or do you have to modify it like the 17-55? With the apsc speedbooster what range and f stoos are we talking about? 24-150 f2.8-4?

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, Thpriest said:

Does the 18-135 work with a Speedbooster or do you have to modify it like the 17-55? With the apsc speedbooster what range and f stoos are we talking about? 24-150 f2.8-4?

I honestly do not have a clue. I am avoiding adapters most of the time, but I am planning to order the BMP4K and that camera screams for speedboosted/adapted lenses.

I have already ordered the Lens Regain which is 0.75X (I believe), so the 18-135 is 13.5-101mm. I guessed that it is compatible with EF-S lenses. If it is not I would like to know too, cause I am planning to start buying lenses really soon.

[webrunner5]

This is from a B&H customers reviews question. No guarantee, but it seems like the EF-S lens should work? But the comment is 2 1/2 years old. I am sure there is a revision as of now.

From the B&H questions section.

"This unit works with Canon EF and EF-S lenses. The Canon 100mm IS will be able to mount on it and it should work. However, only select lenses have been tested and varied to work at this point, with the 100mm not being one of them. Here is a list of the tested lenses. The 18-55mm STM is on this list!Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L II USMCanon EF 40mm f/2.8 STMCanon EF-S18-13Smmf/35IS STMCanon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-S.6 IS STMDistagon T* 35mm f/1.4Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L II USMCanon EF 50mm f/1.8 IICanon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.S-5.6 IS STMCanon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM

Answered by Joseph P. Staff on Jun 16, 2016"

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1251088-REG/aputure_declr_mft_dec_lensregain_for_mft.html

[Kisaha]

I probably did a mistake with the Regain calculations. For the 18-135mm it should be something like 18mm X 0.75 = 13.5 x 2 = 27mm (?) to 135 X 0.75 = 101 X 2 = 202mm(?).

 

 

[Mmmbeats]

On 12/1/2018 at 6:48 PM, Mmmbeats said:

I'm going to do some tests on this at some point. I'll post them up here.

So, it's only taken me a year, but I finally did do some tests.

These were done in a slight hurry as I had hired the lens for a job later that day.  I actually missed focus a couple of times (which is not so smart seeing as focus is central to the purpose of the tests ?).

Just a reminder, I'm testing if a f/2.8 zoom on a 0.64x adaptor can give me suitable shallow DoF options for event work and similar.  I'll be comparing it to my current setup, an f/1.8 zoom on a 0.71x adaptor. 

These are cropped and resized for sharing:

That's (from left to right) - Sigma 18-35 on Metabones S adaptor (x 0.71) at 8 feet - f/1.2 (I'm going by the reported aperture from the adaptor, which is different from the actual lens aperture);  then Sigma 18-35 (same settings) - f/1.8; then Sigma 24-70 A on Metabones XL adaptor (x 0.64) still at 8 feet, but with the focal length adjusted to match up the composition - reported aperture f/1.8 (the lens was wide open at f/2.8).

I was trying to see if I could replicate the kind of shot my clients typically like - two people chatting at an event, shot from a fairly unobtrusive distance, fairly wide, and with some background separation via DoF.

Next I tested the various adaptors wide open:

All shot on the Sigma 24 - 70  A  from 8 feet with focal length adjusted to match up composition (left to right) - XL adaptor (x 0.64) - f/1.8, then S adaptor (x 0.71) - f/2, then T smart adaptor (no crop) - f/2.8.

So my conclusions - the 24-70 matched very well with the shallow DoF provision of the 18-35.  Obviously the 18-35 could open up even more (to reported f/1.2 I believe), but around f/1.8 is as far as I tend to go anyway.

The question is whether it is worth a further outlay of £600 or so (in addition to the cost of the lens!) for the additional adaptor.  That would be 3 Metabones adaptors to MFT I would own.

There's definitely a bit to be gained between the XL and the S (which is similar to the Ultra), and I'm definitely tempted.  As the rest of the thread outlines, there aren't too many alternatives.