Lenses for the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[SR]

Have officially booked the camera. Hope you guys have too. I'm trying to start a dedicated thread just for lenses you'd be pairing the Blackmagic Pocket 4k with (please include video samples of the lens in action)

I'm strongly considering the Tokina AT-X Pro 28-70mm f/2.6-2.8 AF (making it 40-100mm with the Viltrox EF-M2 0.71X). The breathing seems minimal and the image filmic, a good candidate for short films.

 

Next is probably the Sigma 18-35mm 1.8. (25.5-50mm with the 0.71x adapter). This should have me covered for a lot of future commercial work, where sharpness might be paramount.

 

 

 

[IronFilm]

Read the one million zillion billion thousand threads on the internet about "what lens to use with my GH5S" (or GH5, or GH4, or GH3, or GH2.... if you think I'm going to say next "or GH1", you're right! These discussions have been going on for a long time. And they're still relevant even today! Although yes, new lenses do come out over time. For instance the Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 didn't exist back when I purchased my GH1. But broadly speaking the conversations about what lens to use for a GH2 vs a GH5 are not really that different). 

[Grimor]

When camera finally comes out, we'll see zillions of camera test on Youtube because people already have the lenses.

Just wait few more and see what  you like the most.

[cantsin]

There are a few rules for buying MFT lenses for the BM Pocket (the old model as well as the new 4K model) that differ from those for other MFT cameras:

• Avoid lenses that rely a lot on electronic geometry correction, since they will produce distorted images. This includes most Panasonic and, to a lesser degree, Olympus lenses, particularly wideangle primes and wideangle/standard zooms.
• Avoid autofocus lenses with focus-by-wire, except maybe the Olympus Pro lenses with their manual focus clutches.
• If you absolutely need stabilized lenses, there will be no way around Panasonic lenses (most of them zooms), but be aware of their optical and handling (focus-by-wire) shortcomings on the camera.
• If you buy MFT lenses, preferably buy fully manual (i.e. manual focus + manual aperture), optically corrected lenses by Voigtländer, Veydra, Samyang, SLR Magic and others.
• Speed Boosters/focal reducers + SLR lenses are a good alternative, with some known drawbacks. But for the Pocket 4K, hold out and wait which Speed Booster adapter model will be the best for the camera, respectively whether Metabones will produce a dedicated/optimized Speed Booster for the Pocket 4K - none which is known yet.

[JordanWright]

Now that I have the combo working, ill also be using the Metabones Speedbooster XL with the Tokina 28-70mm 2.6-2.8. (34-85 F1.8 Equivilant)

At somepoint I think I might pair it with a set of Leica R's or Contax Zeiss lenses, especially since ill need a good wide angle to pair with the Tokina.

[SR]

On 6/11/2018 at 3:49 PM, Grimor said:

When camera finally comes out, we'll see zillions of camera test on Youtube because people already have the lenses.

Just wait few more and see what  you like the most.

Actually having prebooked it, I'd like to have some lenses ready in hand when the camera arrives. Since a lot of the older lenses are quite cheap, I don't think it's much of a risk investing in them.

 

On 6/11/2018 at 2:35 PM, IronFilm said:

Read the one million zillion billion thousand threads on the internet about "what lens to use with my GH5S" (or GH5, or GH4, or GH3, or GH2.... if you think I'm going to say next "or GH1", you're right! These discussions have been going on for a long time. And they're still relevant even today! Although yes, new lenses do come out over time. For instance the Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 didn't exist back when I purchased my GH1. But broadly speaking the conversations about what lens to use for a GH2 vs a GH5 are not really that different). 

This discussion was already going on in the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K thread. This is just an attempt to streamline it to the specific topic without having to read through over a hundred pages of discussion about everything Pocket 4k. ?

 

On 6/11/2018 at 5:42 PM, cantsin said:

• Avoid lenses that rely a lot on electronic geometry correction, since they will produce distorted images. This includes most Panasonic and, to a lesser degree, Olympus lenses, particularly wideangle primes and wideangle/standard zooms.ed Booster for the Pocket 4K - none which is known yet.

Are these corrections done in-camera, or are they part of the lens profile that the editing softwares recognize (what Photoshop does in Adobe Raw)?

 

13 hours ago, JordanWright said:

Now that I have the combo working, ill also be using the Metabones Speedbooster XL with the Tokina 28-70mm 2.6-2.8. (34-85 F1.8 Equivilant)

At somepoint I think I might pair it with a set of Leica R's or Contax Zeiss lenses, especially since ill need a good wide angle to pair with the Tokina.

Any experience with the Leica R's or Contax Zeiss? I haven't used either.

 

 

 

On 6/6/2018 at 1:58 PM, anonim said:

I'd suggest Leica R zooms - I found that their construction is second to none except modern Voigts. They don't protrude, focus and zoom rings are incredible smooth, again only comparable with Noktons. If lenses are in nice conditions (and their long life  period is unbeatable) they achieved quality that is the most important to me but I don't know how to better explain it: cleanness. Simply, image without predominant tone/shadow veil. Most of vintage lenses has it - and although it may be interesting in effect, it is near impossible to remove it completely in grading to get proper initial/neutral/clean grading point.

 

[cantsin]

2 hours ago, SR said:

Are these corrections done in-camera, or are they part of the lens profile that the editing softwares recognize (what Photoshop does in Adobe Raw)?

These corrections are done in-camera, but only by Panasonic, Olympus and other MFT photo cameras, for JPEG and video, and off-camera, but only for raw stills, by software like Adobe's.

With Blackmagic cameras, there is neither in-camera geometry correction, nor does any video program that reads CinemaDNG apply those corrections in post. - This also includes vignetting and CA corrections on which a lot of MFT system lenses by Panasonic and Olympus do rely.

[Shirozina]

Distortion and CA can be corrected by importing footage into Photoshop as a smart object and then applying  lens correction tools. Resolve Studio has basic lens distortion correction tools. 

[cantsin]

12 hours ago, Shirozina said:

Distortion and CA can be corrected by importing footage into Photoshop as a smart object and then applying  lens correction tools. Resolve Studio has basic lens distortion correction tools. 

Photoshop smart object importing doesn't work with CinemaDNG sequences.

And Resolve Studio's lens distortion correction is manual only and not based on meta data of the lens used.

[JordanWright]

That sounds like a lot of work for something that can be avoided by buying different lenses... or maybe i'm just too lazy!

[cantsin]

12 minutes ago, JordanWright said:

That sounds like a lot of work for something that can be avoided by buying different lenses... 

Completely agreed. In addition, you'd lose resolution when deskewing the image in post. 

The Pocket 4K won't change what has always been true for BM cameras: These are not run-and-gun cameras, but cameras for slower, manual filmmaking.

[Shirozina]

37 minutes ago, cantsin said:

Completely agreed. In addition, you'd lose resolution when deskewing the image in post. 

The Pocket 4K won't change what has always been true for BM cameras: These are not run-and-gun cameras, but cameras for slower, manual filmmaking.

So you don't loose resolution when it's done in-camera?

[cantsin]

1 minute ago, Shirozina said:

So you don't loose resolution when it's done in-camera?

Not when the camera downsamples its (4K) video from a higher resolution sensor.

[Shirozina]

50 minutes ago, JordanWright said:

That sounds like a lot of work for something that can be avoided by buying different lenses... or maybe i'm just too lazy!

Sounds like a lot of £££ to buy a full set of optically corrected lenses.

[cantsin]

Just now, Shirozina said:

Sounds like a lot of £££ to buy a full set of optically corrected lenses.

You can also buy budget Chinese MFT primes by Mitakon, 7artisans etc. The 7artisans 25mm/f1.8 only costs about $100.

[Shirozina]

Just now, cantsin said:

Not when the camera downsamples its (4K) video from a higher resolution sensor.

How do you know when the distortion correction is done - post or pre downsampling? 

[cantsin]

Just now, Shirozina said:

How do you know when the distortion correction is done - post or pre downsampling? 

We don't know but can only speculate on the sanity of Panasonic's and Olympus' camera body designs.

[kye]

3 hours ago, cantsin said:

The Pocket 4K won't change what has always been true for BM cameras: These are not run-and-gun cameras, but cameras for slower, manual filmmaking.

Yes - unfortunately for me!

Now, if only BM made a purpose-built camera for ninja film-making (can accomplish anything but is invisible!).

[SR]

3 hours ago, kye said:

Yes - unfortunately for me!

Now, if only BM made a purpose-built camera for ninja film-making (can accomplish anything but is invisible!).

Would be tough at that price point -- and what it can do is already a miracle at that price. For ninja filmmaking, wouldn't image quality be not that big of a deal? And you still can do wonders with even a 10 year old camera. (5D mark II, I believe on this video.)
 

 

[kye]

9 minutes ago, SR said:

Would be tough at that price point -- and what it can do is already a miracle at that price. For ninja filmmaking, wouldn't image quality be not that big of a deal? And you still can do wonders with even a 10 year old camera. (5D mark II, I believe on this video.)

It depends on your frame of reference.  For me, 'can do everything' includes wild-life one second and a wide panorama the next without time to change lenses, and coming from a world that thinks that a 700D is a 'big camera' a 5D or C100 are so absurdly large that people openly stare with mouths agape.  Also, I'd like image quality approaching 4K compressed or 1080 RAW.

We're in a difficult time - cameras have enough capability and accessibility to give us grand ideas, media consumption is high enough quality that we know nice images when we see them, but the tech isn't quite there yet.

I know BM is concentrating on the slow/planned styles of film-making, but they're so insanely good at delivering awesomeness I'm just jealous I'm not in their target camera market!!