Administrators Andrew Reid Posted May 19, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted May 19, 2013 Cinema5D was claiming their 128gb 1000x Komputerbay cards were much faster than what Andrew and I have been getting. I'm wondering if I should just order 5-6 cards at once and only keep the fastest ones? Thoughts? It is nothing unusual, they all vary. Think in terms of overclocking CPUs. Some of the same silicon could be pushed very far without overheating and hanging, whilst some couldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlev23 Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 again, what is the best way to check the speed of the card you bought? can you check without having the hack yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leo Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 If this is in relation to showcasing the raw hack I have one complaint, why is everything shot on a tripod, no moving, no steadycam run and gun, it's like those promotional videos for a camera where you see static gorgeous footage but as soon as you buy it and you start using it is not the same, I want to see some fast action and how it looks. Let's see how it handles fast action. Lee Mullen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tungah Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 If this is in relation to showcasing the raw hack I have one complaint, why is everything shot on a tripod, no moving, no steadycam run and gun, it's like those promotional videos for a camera where you see static gorgeous footage but as soon as you buy it and you start using it is not the same, I want to see some fast action and how it looks. Let's see how it handles fast action. Halycon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherDave Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Somebody will make a CF to SSD adapter so that we'll get the FULL 167MB/sec throughput from the CF Slot - this is a given. But... will you want to carry that extra stuff around when someone else will produce a CF card fast enough to handle the data too? I think, some a experimental standpoint... the developers need to figure out why people aren't able to convert the larger than 4gb files, and MORE IMPORTANTLY how to pair the workflow down into a single step! I don't want to shoot raw only then to have to convert it to ProRes 422 to edit it... that is (excuse my french) bullshit. What is the point if I can't have it in my NLE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlev23 Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Somebody will make a CF to SSD adapter so that we'll get the FULL 167MB/sec throughput from the CF Slot - this is a given. But... will you want to carry that extra stuff around when someone else will produce a CF card fast enough to handle the data too? I think, some a experimental standpoint... the developers need to figure out why people aren't able to convert the larger than 4gb files, and MORE IMPORTANTLY how to pair the workflow down into a single step! I don't want to shoot raw only then to have to convert it to ProRes 422 to edit it... that is (excuse my french) bullshit. What is the point if I can't have it in my NLE? this exactly why i keep asking if: with the ML hack, shooting RAW, do we still have the capability to record to an external drive via the HDMI port, so we can have a prores and raw file of the same material...no one seems to want to answer this, though if you have the hack, as it seems a lot of people on this forum including andrew do, why cant you answer this simple question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherDave Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 this exactly why i keep asking if: with the ML hack, shooting RAW, do we still have the capability to record to an external drive via the HDMI port, so we can have a prores and raw file of the same material...no one seems to want to answer this, though if you have the hack, as it seems a lot of people on this forum including andrew do, why cant you answer this simple question. You get HDMI out, but not uncompressed clean from the 1.2.1 firmware update. The hack is for the previous firmware, and DOES NOT give CLEAN HDMI out. You could, however, record your compressed "dirty" HDMI out (I assume with sound) and edit it as a dub... if you had a quick turn around time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlev23 Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 You get HDMI out, but not uncompressed clean from the 1.2.1 firmware update. The hack is for the previous firmware, and DOES NOT give CLEAN HDMI out. You could, however, record your compressed "dirty" HDMI out (I assume with sound) and edit it as a dub... if you had a quick turn around time. oh, that is terrible then, thanks for your answer! maybe that will change in the near future, or the ML team will find away to at least put prores onto the SD card simultaneously :) so what i you already installed the new firmware, can you still load the ML "upgrade"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peederj Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Somebody will make a CF to SSD adapter so that we'll get the FULL 167MB/sec throughput from the CF Slot - this is a given. But... will you want to carry that extra stuff around when someone else will produce a CF card fast enough to handle the data too? I think, some a experimental standpoint... the developers need to figure out why people aren't able to convert the larger than 4gb files, and MORE IMPORTANTLY how to pair the workflow down into a single step! I don't want to shoot raw only then to have to convert it to ProRes 422 to edit it... that is (excuse my french) bullshit. What is the point if I can't have it in my NLE? First of all, Apple requires a license for the use of ProRes, and it's just about unthinkable they will give one to Magic Lantern. Secondly, the whole point of using RAW is to manipulate the curves you desire *prior* to encoding in ProRes or DNx for your cutting. Cinema5D illustrates this well in their 5D3 RAW workflow video. 5D3 RAW is 14 bit linear (how many actual stops the sensor gives has not been determined yet; DxO claims 11.9 stops at base ISO for 8MP resolution, 2MP resolution may have more than that, or perhaps less, depending on how Canon downsampled). That allows you to pull your own custom "gamma" so to speak for encoding into ProRes, you can pull a whole custom look if you want with full color accuracy and without having to LUT a log gamma. A nice advantage though currently the workflow is unfacilitated. You get HDMI out, but not uncompressed clean from the 1.2.1 firmware update. The hack is for the previous firmware, and DOES NOT give CLEAN HDMI out. You could, however, record your compressed "dirty" HDMI out (I assume with sound) and edit it as a dub... if you had a quick turn around time. The Canon 1.2.1 firmware for the 5D3 does indeed provide uncompressed clean HDMI output at 8 bit 422 for recording onto a Ninja or other external recorder. It's a nice image when used with Cinestyle and run through a LUT, and much better than the internal recording. I hope ML is able to get RAW working simultaneously with all the normal 1.2.1 features so that we can have an internal proxy and an external ProRes. Just like most of the unfortunates who bought into the BMCC hype record ProRes rather than RAW, I think most of the 5D3 owners will use the clean HDMI out for most of their work unless ML implements a better internal codec such as a very high quality MJPEG. But as I mentioned they will most likely never be able to record to ProRes or DNx internally due to licensing encumberances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelebaron Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 I just ordered a 32gb exceria pro card, will take ages to get here(between may 29th and june 4th), and I suppose theres the risk of it being counterfeit as its from hong kong, but I will let you guys know how it goes. hopefully the delivery estimate is super conservative(and moreso that its the real deal)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted May 20, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted May 20, 2013 On my 5D Mark III whilst recording raw internally to the card, HDMI is flawless. I've been monitoring with it all day, not a hitch. I have no doubt that you will be recording ProRes on an external recorder via HDMI with 1.2.1 once Magic Lantern get to it, and raw internally at the same time. Handy. Halycon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlev23 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 On my 5D Mark III whilst recording raw internally to the card, HDMI is flawless. I've been monitoring with it all day, not a hitch. I have no doubt that you will be recording ProRes on an external recorder via HDMI with 1.2.1 once Magic Lantern get to it, and raw internally at the same time. Handy. i feel optimistic by your confidence, thank you. with this option i can not only see productions loving this but trusting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianMendoza Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Hey Andrew! This is coming from someone who's never used any magic latern firmware before, so forgive me if this sounds stupid, but if we want to use the new magic latern firmware to utilize the huge improvement on image detail, but would rather capture as jpeg instead of raw, to save from file size and workflow/rendering time, is this a possibility? Or does the new firmware only allow raw capture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlev23 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 i guess il ask again, how do you test your or get an accurate read/write speed for the card once you receive it? is there an easy way to check without shooting something with the ML hack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted May 20, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted May 20, 2013 Hey Andrew! This is coming from someone who's never used any magic latern firmware before, so forgive me if this sounds stupid, but if we want to use the new magic latern firmware to utilize the huge improvement on image detail, but would rather capture as jpeg instead of raw, to save from file size and workflow/rendering time, is this a possibility? Or does the new firmware only allow raw capture? There's no MJPEG video capture yet and it doesn't save as JPEG stills sequences. You can transcode to MJPEG with Raw2DNG though so as long as you have big compact flash cards you get your wish anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianMendoza Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 There's no MJPEG video capture yet and it doesn't save as JPEG stills sequences. You can transcode to MJPEG with Raw2DNG though so as long as you have big compact flash cards you get your wish anyway. Oh ok! I didn't even think about that. That's a great suggestion. This is such an exciting upgrade to the 5d3! When it initially debuted I really had no temptation to upgrade, but this certainly makes it well worth the upgrade from the 5d2. Have you had any experience with the workflow on any of the current macbook pros? I'm on a 2011 macbook pro, and I wonder how well it would handle working with such larger files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted May 20, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted May 20, 2013 Oh ok! I didn't even think about that. That's a great suggestion. This is such an exciting upgrade to the 5d3! When it initially debuted I really had no temptation to upgrade, but this certainly makes it well worth the upgrade from the 5d2. Have you had any experience with the workflow on any of the current macbook pros? I'm on a 2011 macbook pro, and I wonder how well it would handle working with such larger files. The main issue with a MacBook is the limited drive space for raw. You absolutely cannot keep much of the master files on it at any one time. Speed wise it is fine, but I get much better Raw2DNG speeds on my Mac Pro Hackintosh - faster than realtime. Make sure you have an SSD master boot drive in whatever machine you choose. Greatly speeds up everything. Also you should edit raw files from a RAID array of hard drives. If this is an external box connect it via E-SATA or USB 3.0 not USB 2.0! You cannot edit uncompressed raw in Resolve from one single standard HDD. It needs SSD or RAID speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar M. Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 oh, that is terrible then, thanks for your answer! maybe that will change in the near future, or the ML team will find away to at least put prores onto the SD card simultaneously :) so what i you already installed the new firmware, can you still load the ML "upgrade"? That would be pointless. Encoding to ProRes automatically nulls the benefits of RAW. If you don't understand why, then RAW is probably not for you. In any case, ProRes will probably not happen - it's Apple licensed. The most logical way for ML to go - if they were to go that route - would be to encode to Cinema DNG which is open and is widely supported by many of the most popular NLEs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlev23 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 That would be pointless. Encoding to ProRes automatically nulls the benefits of RAW. If you don't understand why, then RAW is probably not for you. In any case, ProRes will probably not happen - it's Apple licensed. The most logical way for ML to go - if they were to go that route - would be to encode to Cinema DNG which is open and is widely supported by many of the most popular NLEs. um, why would that be pointless, ive been shooting raw since the red one came out and every single file has to be transcoded to prores by the DIT to be ready for the edit load in the next morning, my problem now with 5k is that the DIT, even with redrocket can hardly keep up and it takes the whole next day to transcode, all i was saying is that it would be amazing if both files were handled in camera and the editors could start right away, its a deadline thing, maybe its something you dont understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 I don't want to shoot raw only then to have to convert it to ProRes 422 to edit it... that is (excuse my french) bullshit. It's not only bullshit, it's also how most, if not all, of the (digital workflow) movies you ever watched were edited. Editors work with lower res files, often ugly looking with timecode and sequence/shot info printed on top. Once they have a picture lock, they replace only the used clips with the high res raw versions, and that's what you use for grading. Technology might catch up soon, but in the meantime editing raw files is cumbersome and hurts your editing workflow more than it helps. Ernesto Mantaras 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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