Who would pay twice the price if the new BM Pocket 4K had Canon DPAF?

[kye]

30 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

The restricted smart mode is eye AF unless you have an A9, A7Riii or A7iii. 

It's only suitable for smaller (lighter) lenses due to the motors and it's never going to get anywhere near native AF or even in the same postal region so it isn't without it's limitations.

Thanks.

I asked because I randomly watched a YT review of one just the other day and the guy was using a super vintage lens with swirly bokeh for a portrait stills session and the AF-S was quite impressive.  It wasn't lightening fast, but it was still perhaps half-a-second and it was obviously phase detect because it just went from where it was to the focus point and pretty much stopped dead, no hunting or anything.  Considering the lens was completely manual it was really quite surprising.

[TwoScoops]

I'd definitely pay a lot more. Or more likely for the new Canon mirrorless if/when they get that right. 

[Kisaha]

The last few years I have used selectively, touch AF in my Samsung cameras, and some form of AF (never AF-C, touch screen/touch button always) in C100mkII/C300 and C200 lately. 

Even though manual focus consists of 90% of my work, it is a feature I would pay more to have and definitely worths more to me than e.g IBIS, or other stuff.

Touch focus especially is liberating, can't really see any negative at all.

I didn't vote, because I do not believe this BM camera is competitive to any real hybrid camera, or even the aforementioned Canon ones, and I do not believe that is as simple as a "double the price" question.

A C series camera is a lot more, and a true APS-C hybrid like my NX1 is a lot more but on a different sense and directio . 

I probably will buy a BM4K, but it won't replace any of the current cameras I use.

[BTM_Pix]

4 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I probably will buy a BM4K, but it won't replace any of the current cameras I use.

I think this is a very salient point in that the only camera its realistically going to be a swap out replacement for is one of BM's own ones.

Its a better Pocket (though not if you need the form factor) or BMCC but despite it having a stills button its still in the same ballpark of being a more specialist device.

[webrunner5]

3 hours ago, DBounce said:

There is no chance that BMD will add DPAF to any of their cameras... not at any price. Heck, it’s not even coming with a flip-out screen... although it’s pitched as a vlogging cam. Would good AF not be considered essential for a Vlogging camera?... so there’s that. It’s a strange camera in that regard. I feel BMD don’t have a clue who they are targeting... or what features that target audience values. I’m sure it will sell a ton... initially. Then, after launch, sales will be sparse.

You are right about the DPAF. That is a on sensor thing using a Canon sensor. Since they are using a Sony Sensor in it, it ain't happening.

And I would not sell the 4K BMPCC short yet. We have absolutely no clue how good or bad AF really is in it.

And for the VLogging part it does have that front Movie button. And with a 10mm manual focus lens with a reasonable DoF Aperture on it, I have no clue why you even need AF with a super wide angle lens for the most part. Not saying it would not help, but..

And yeah why would anyone down vote Jon's comment on how hard it is to focus using MF lenses. Strange world out there. ?

[BTM_Pix]

6 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

And I would not sell the 4K BMPCC short yet. We have absolutely no clue how good or bad AF really is in it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it'll be worse than Canon but better than RED or Arri

 

[webrunner5]

6 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it'll be worse than Canon but better than RED or Arri

 

Well that was a pretty ballsy statement LoL. ?

I think the original question Should have been, Would you pay a Decent amount more, not say Double. I would have Voted Yes on that question, but Double, that is a Lot. Nah.

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

A C series camera is a lot more, and a true APS-C hybrid like my NX1 is a lot more but on a different sense and directio . 

I probably will buy a BM4K, but it won't replace any of the current cameras I use.

You can buy the original C100 here in the USA for as little as 1100 dollars. I have seen the ones with the DPAF in them for 1500 to 1600 Dollars at times. That is not much more than the 4K BMPCC. Sure it doesn't have 4K, well it does LoL, but we are talking a pretty damn nice camera here. For weddings, Corporate I am buying that camera.

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, TwoScoops said:

I'd definitely pay a lot more. Or more likely for the new Canon mirrorless if/when they get that right. 

Trouble with Canon is they will in no way in hell sell a FF 4K mirrorless for less than 3 grand. For 2 grand they will build a gimped as hell 6D mkII knock off to Try and compete with the  Sony A7 mk III. It will probably suck, just like the 6D does. No way on the cheaper end is Canon going to hit a home run on their first outing. Now they may try to go balls to the wall on the top end one, but it will cost a Ton of money. 3400 bucks or more. You Know Nikon is Going to have a Mirrorless D850. It will happen. So Canon Has to compete with it, and the Sony on the A7r mk III.

So if you are looking for a good, cheap Canon mirrorless I don't think it will happen. A cheap, gimped one. Well yeah, that Will happen.

 

[zerocool22]

Yeah I was going to buy one as soon as they hit market. But maybe I better wait a couple of weeks and buy a used one from someone who doesnt like manual focus and buys a A7III,c100 instead ^^

[fuzzynormal]

Not me. Still a manual focus guy.

[DBounce]

22 hours ago, Emanuel said:

For a simple reason. We all know BMD IQ standard , that's why so. Isn't it, guys? ; -)

This is exactly why I suspect we will see many returns and lightly used examples on eBay. People expect convenience and many will be disappointed when they learn this camera is going to require extra effort to get the results they are after.

[webrunner5]

13 minutes ago, DBounce said:

This is exactly why I suspect we will see many returns and lightly used examples on eBay. People expect convenience and many will be disappointed when they learn this camera is going to require extra effort to get the results they are after.

Yeah this thing is not going to be a Point n Shoot camera that is for sure. No Auto or P Mode on it. Although the Film Mode on it might not be too bad OOC in a normal ProRes setting like ProRes 422,  ProRes 422 LT .. ?

[kye]

11 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think this is a very salient point in that the only camera its realistically going to be a swap out replacement for is one of BM's own ones.

I agree that it's not a 'swap out' replacement for any/many cameras, but it would be a great 'instead of' camera..  ie, instead of buying a budget-model RED you get 4K RAW for cheaper, or instead of using a full DSLR rig on full manual you get a camera with hugely better IQ.  

10 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

And I would not sell the 4K BMPCC short yet. We have absolutely no clue how good or bad AF really is in it.

I thought someone said it didn't have AF-C (only AF-S) but when I searched I couldn't find anything and the BM website only says it will have autofocus, but doesn't say more.

Do we know if it will AF-C?

10 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

And for the VLogging part it does have that front Movie button. And with a 10mm manual focus lens with a reasonable DoF Aperture on it, I have no clue why you even need AF with a super wide angle lens for the most part. Not saying it would not help, but..

I've seen Sony vloggers manual focus by holding the camera just under their chin, holding out their arm with fingers outstretched and focusing manually on them before recording a selfie-shot.  If you're using a Sony on MF, and of course without a flippy screen, then apart from IBIS that's probably the same functionality as the Pocket 2.

I can't imagine vloggers taking to 4K RAW (or high-bitrate prores) in great numbers though.  LOTS of vloggers tried 4K and then when it took them 4 times as long to edit and upload went back to 1080.  Some will use it, mostly those who already have a RED or similar in a studio setup, but that's not a big market, to say the least.

[webrunner5]

Speaking of DPAF! Looks like maybe Canon doesn't have a lock on the Patent for it? No way they would let Rival Nikon use it.

https://www.diyphotography.net/nikon-mirrorless-camera-may-dual-pixel-autofocus-tech-according-new-patent/

 

List of Canon cameras that have DPAF, not counting some of the C series Cine cameras.

anon Cameras with Dual Pixel CMOS AF

This list is constantly growing, as new cameras are developed and introduced. The first EOS camera with Dual Pixel CMOS AF was the EOS 70D, introduced in 2013. As of April 2018, the following Canon EOS models use Dual Pixel CMOS AF technology:

EOS M-series “mirrorless” models:

EOS M5

EOS M6

EOS M50*

EOS digital SLRs with APS-C size sensors:

EOS Rebel T7i*

EOS 77D*

EOS 70D

EOS 80D*

EOS 7D Mark II*

EOS digital SLRs with full-frame sensors:

EOS 6D Mark II*

EOS 5D Mark IV*

EOS-1D X Mark II

* Servo AF (continuous focus on moving subjects) possible during Live View still-image shooting

[IronFilm]

On 6/22/2018 at 6:12 PM, Shirozina said:

or put another way - would you buy a C200 instead of the BMPCC 4k if it was 1/2 the price.........

A half priced C200 is still way over double the price of a BMPCC4K!!

[IronFilm]

On 6/23/2018 at 3:10 AM, Kieran said:

I always focus manually anyway. So for twice the price, I'd rather have two of the current BMPCC4Ks. 

Set up two cameras next to each that are focused at two different points in the scene. 

"Auto" focus solved! ?

[wolf33d]

I just got a call from Black Magic Executive Vice President, he is taking over the company after the CEO killed himself, a few minutes after reading my poll on EOSH. 

Joke aside, well done BM for missing the mark like Panasonic did with the GH5. Offering all features needed but a very important one...

 

[IronFilm]

16 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

Joke aside, well done BM for missing the mark like Panasonic did with the GH5. Offering all features needed but a very important one...

They could never have done that. 
Would you have rather they never released the BMPCC4K?
Of course not, that is a silly proposal!

We can be very happy with what the BMPCC4K is rather than attacking it. 

 

[newfoundmass]

The camera hasn't even been released! Who knows how good the auto focus will be? What'd you expect from BMD? 

And Panasonic missed the mark so badly with the GH5 that it won camera of the year awards and seems to have sold really, really well. ?

[IronFilm]

11 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

And Panasonic missed the mark so badly with the GH5 that it won camera of the year awards and seems to have sold really, really well. ?

If this is how bad Panasonic is when they "fail" what will happen when they succeed? :-o