Nikon full frame mirrorless camera specs

[Robert Collins]

This is possibly worth its own thread. According to Nikonrumors (no idea how reliable they are), Nikon mirrorless is coming and coming soon (possibly later this month.)

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/03/first-set-of-rumored-specifications-for-the-nikon-mirrorless-cameras.aspx/

The specs sound very similar to the Sony A7iii and A7riii. (Which sounds good to me.)

The big surprise (at least to me) is that it will supposedly have IBIS. It appears to have a new mount which will take an adaptor for f mount lenses.

[Andrew Reid]

I am excited about this one, could be very popular with us if they get video right.

However I am not sure why the rumour states 25MP and 45MP, when current tech from their supplier Sony is 24MP and 46MP. Seems like an odd move to use different sensors with 1MP difference.

[JurijTurnsek]

What is Nikon's strong-point anyway? DSLR AF was second to none, but without the prism (video AF) it has been abysmal. Have they ported the Nikon 1 AF to a FF sensor? Simply copying Sony with a bigger grip and similar performance? I guess it will add legitimacy to mirrorless as a professional tool. And they better come out swinging with a no-compromise adapter for their current mounts.

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

According to Nikonrumors (no idea how reliable they are)

Nikon Rumors would be the most reliable site on the internet for Nikon rumors, 99% of the news you see on english speaking photo websites probably originally sourced their Nikon rumors from NR beforehand.

NR has been around for many years, I follow the website fairly closely for news when I have spare time, as I'm a Nikon user. 

47 minutes ago, JurijTurnsek said:

What is Nikon's strong-point anyway?

Color Science. 
Ability to extract the max out of a sensor (look how Sony and Nikon would use the same sensor, but Nikon would do it that little bit better).
History of a deep understanding of photographers' need thus good ergonomics / design. 
Excellent design of lenses together with a massively massive back catalogue of lenses (although this will be less of a factor once they go with a new mount, unless they pull off a fabulously awesome implementation of their Nikon F adapter for their new mirrorless cameras. Which I'm sure they'll be trying their darn hardest to do!).

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

However I am not sure why the rumour states 25MP and 45MP, when current tech from their supplier Sony is 24MP and 46MP. Seems like an odd move to use different sensors with 1MP difference.

NR says:
"(some numbers could be slightly off or rounded)"
Also stated: "Two mirrorless cameras: one with 24-25MP and one with 45MP (48MP is also a possibility)."

So yeah, could very well be carrying on with using existing sensors. Which makes sense! One less crazy variable to try and control for as they embark on their most important roll out of new cameras they've done in decades and decades. Probably the most important launch of new cameras for Nikon ever in the entire digital age.  This is do or die for Nikon. 

If Nikon gets it right they will cement their place in history as the #2 brand, maybe even grab the #1 spot if Canon screws up their mirrorless big pro launch and Sony's growth stagnates. 

But if Nikon fails at a mirrorless launch then this is doors shut on their camera division, and even Nikon's entire business. 

Who knows, maybe all this would be a reason why they'd go for a new sensor? So they can make the biggest splash possible with their new mirrorless line up of cameras. 

And it wouldn't be odd to me if their brand new sensors stuck with the roughly 20 ish and 40 ish megapixels size. 

As for people who don't obsess with megapixel count, then 20 something megapixels is a nice sweet spot of giving you very nice images that is plenty overkill resolution but still small ish file sizes. (as we saw with the D500 and D7500 even going "backwards" with their sensor resolution, as resolution doesn't really matter so much now for stills as we've got plenty of it!)

And for the number geeks who do obsess about megapickles then even for them 40 something megapixels is a pretty good sweet spot. Do we really want a 60 megapixel full frame camera?! Certainly not for a mainstream launch, no. 

[Nikkor]

Nikon lenses have a nice look, contrasty but not too contrasty (like canon or zeiss which burn blacks in my eyes), and plenty of sharpness (although I prefer more). 

If they use this opportunity to make compact systems (not like sony lenses) it could be a nice system to complement a real Medium Format camera.

[noone]

It doesn't have to beat the Sony's to be successful, just "good enough".

The one question I am waiting  is the flange distance and regarding adaptability (I expect it to be reasonably adaptable for most Nikon lenses* but I mean OTHER lenses IE Canon EF).

I also would not be surprised if THESE are the cameras the sensor is from Tower Jazz and not the D850 (and the timing of release could be down to how quickly and how much output from them).

I hope it/they are great, can not have enough competition.

* Then again, Nikon doesn't even make its latest lenses compatible with even some current or recent cameras!

[BTM_Pix]

Full speculation mode on and all that but if they are both FF as its being suggested, I presumed at first that this means the 25mp would be the D5 equivalent for low light and throughput and the 45mp would be the D850 equivalent.

But the price and the 9fps makes that seem doubtful, which would suggest that there may not be a plugin D5 (or even D500) replacement in the first wave.

Which makes me wonder how good (or likely not) the AF is going to be for existing lenses via the adapter.

Just speculation on a rumour of course but I think there'll be mirrors flapping for a while longer in Nikon cameras aimed at the D5/D500 user.

 

[IronFilm]

5 hours ago, noone said:

It doesn't have to beat the Sony's to be successful, just "good enough".

I don't think so. Nikon must pull this off for their sake. 
Not unless you feel Canon will fail at their pro mirrorless launch?

Look at the pre-mirrorless DSLR World (when the photography market was much healthier than now! With our declining sales now). 

There was only space for the Canikon duopoly, with Pentax and Sony/Minolta lurking somewhere waaaay behind in the shadows without much success. 

I expect something similar to happen in the new mirrorless age. We will see two systems (maaaaaaybe three) take much of the glory, with mere crumbs left for everyone else. 

I'm hoping/betting Micro Four Thirds will be one of those two (three?) systems which thrive, due to their very wide range of support with lens and camera manufacturers. It far far surpasses any of the competing systems, and as technology progresses forward the disadvantages of a smaller sensor matter less and less. So you're left with just the advantages of it! Will that be enough to keep away the onslaught of the full frame mirrorless from Canikon? I hope so. 

This now leaves just one (or two?) open slots for another mirrorless system. And competition is tough with Sony and Fujifilm offering attractive options, that are getting better and better each year. With Canikon yet to make their "big splash".

Thus Nikon has to pull off this mirrorless launch, otherwise they will become the Pentax of the new mirrorless era. Or even worse, Nikon might just disappear. 

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, noone said:

The one question I am waiting  is the flange distance and regarding adaptability (I expect it to be reasonably adaptable for most Nikon lenses* but I mean OTHER lenses IE Canon EF).

If it is a new mount then I'm 100% sure it will be "compatible" with Canon EF, but of course we'll need to wait for third party manufacturers to do this. But I bet they'll be very quick and on to it. 

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Full speculation mode on and all that but if they are both FF as its being suggested, I presumed at first that this means the 25mp would be the D5 equivalent for low light and throughput and the 45mp would be the D850 equivalent.

But the price and the 9fps makes that seem doubtful, which would suggest that there may not be a plugin D5 (or even D500) replacement in the first wave.

My guess is the 24megapixel mirrorless (or 25MP) will be the mirrorless equivalent of the D600/D610/D750 (or you could see it as the a7mk3 equivalent).
Although I hope they'll at least do a D750mk2 with 4K before they quit that line of DSLRs. 

This makes a lot more sense than making a D5 mirrorless, as they must have an "affordable" mirrorless for the masses (and a 45MP camera is not it!). And on average the D5 owner is more likely to want to stick with DSLRs for another generation than other camera body owners, as the D5 is a specialized niche DSLR camera for sports photographers and the like. 

[Nikkor]

They can always make a D5 without mirror,  the mirrorless is probably more consumer oriented.

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Just speculation on a rumour of course but I think there'll be mirrors flapping for a while longer in Nikon cameras aimed at the D5/D500 user.

Exactly. And this is why the 24MP body will not be a D5 replacement. 

I bet we will see a D6. Probably not a "D600" DX body though! (ha! Just look at how long the D300 to D500 cycle took.....)

I bet we'll see another iteration from the D3x00/D5x00 series (but if both will? Dunno). 
And we'll see another iteration of the D7500 (probably will at least partially catch up to the D500, as we'll never see a D500mk2). 
We''ll also see another iteration or two forward for a FX DSLR body positioned under the D5/D6 series. 

Will there be however a second round of camera body iterations for these DSLRs lines? I dunno. Too hard to look that far into the future!

But the long term prognosis for Nikon DSLRs will be like it has been in recent years for the Sony A mount, with few lines being updated, longer camera lifespan cycles, and eventually them dying out completely.

[squig]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Thus Nikon has to pull off this mirrorless launch, otherwise they will become the Pentax of the new mirrorless era. Or even worse, Nikon might just disappear. 

Nikon has been the architect of its own demise. Nikon sat on its arse when Sony was feeding on its brain. Its arrogance has been almost fatal. If the Nikon mirrorless isn't amazingly good, it's gonna be corporate Seppuku for Nikon. Nikon had an opportunity to pwn Canon with the successor to the D90. Nikon has no video division to cannibalise yet video has always been an afterthought with crappy low bitrate inter frame codecs, aliasing, huge crops, etc, etc. Give us 10bit, give us raw, or give us Seppuku.

[IronFilm]

Nikon didn't see Sony as its core competitor, rather  its focus was on Canon. (which I suppose makes it stranger they didn't think to make a response to the C100/C300)

But while being focused on Canon the problem is Nikon let Sony grow and grow until they've sneaked up right behind them to be nipping at Nikon's heels, poised to steal #2 spot from them. 

[noone]

There are still an awful lot of people who want what Sony offers but will not buy a Sony and many are (still) die hard loyalists for both Canon and Nikon.

That is why I think it doesn't have to be BETTER than Sony but just has to be competitive (but does have to be SOON - for both of them).

 

[squig]

Diehard loyalists die, companies that don't innovate die with them. Sony made their intention to be number 2 public years ago, Nikon did NOTHING to prevent it. Nikon has the expertise to build an awesome mirrorless video spec'd camera. Nikon DSLRs have been used as B cams with Alexas for a reason, mostly for their high DR and color science. I'm still shooting with a hacked camera I bought in 2012 because no stock camera under $10,000 is any better for my requirements. If Nikon hasn't consulted with cutting edge creatives on the mirrorless design, the chances are they're screwed. Nikon has to blow our minds or it will wither and die.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, noone said:

There are still an awful lot of people who want what Sony offers but will not buy a Sony and many are (still) die hard loyalists for both Canon and Nikon.

That is why I think it doesn't have to be BETTER than Sony but just has to be competitive (but does have to be SOON - for both of them).

I agree, but Sony has a huge headstart.

Thus Nikon has to ballpark match Sony at price/performance this year (with their two cameras plus a few lenses, and of course an EXCELLENT adapter for legacy lenses) and then strongly follow up in 2019 as well (with a DX mirrorless, plus more lenses for the new mount). 

That is the minimum Nikon needs to do. 

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, squig said:

Diehard loyalists die, companies that don't innovate die with them. Sony made their intention to be number 2 public years ago, Nikon did NOTHING to prevent it. Nikon has the expertise to build an awesome mirrorless video spec'd camera. Nikon DSLRs have been used as B cams with Alexas for a reason, mostly for their high DR and color science. I'm still shooting with a hacked camera I bought in 2012 because no stock camera under $10,000 is any better for my requirements. If Nikon hasn't consulted with cutting edge creatives on the mirrorless design, the chances are they're screwed. Nikon has to blow our minds or it will wither and die.

I agree with your thoughts. But I don't see Nikon coming up with nothing new that will be amazing. I see them at best have a Mirrorless replacement for the time being for the D750, and the D850.  I think the D500 and the D5 are safe bet to continue to be a DSLR. And best the new Mirrorless ones will be is a lesser Sony A7 mk III and a lesser Sony A7r mkIII. How they going to top those 2 cameras, let alone the Sony A9. It isn't happening.

Now the Only good rumor I have heard is Canon might, and I mean might, on their top end Mirrorless, have ND filters built into an existing EF mount on it AKA like Sigma does mount wise for their new SD Mirrorless cameras. They don't have ND filters in them but there sure as hell is room for them in that snout! That would be a BIG deal if they do it! It might not be the most beautiful Mirrorless on the market but think of a FF Canon Mirrorless needing no EF lens adapter and ND's in it. Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner!

[IronFilm]

13 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I think the D500 and the D5 are safe bet to continue to be a DSLR

Nikon will carry these on for another generation, I reckon it might even be safe to bet on two more iterations of them happening (although that 2nd iteration might take a long time coming).

And I bet the first release of mirrorless this year (and probably even next year) won't be direct competitors to the D5/D500 either, as those can safely carry on in their DSLR niche for a while longer.  And Nikon is better off putting their focus elsewhere for their first few new mirrorless cameras. 

And it won't just be the D500 and D5 which carry on for at least one more generation (maybe more). Nikon F mount will carry on for a while just like A mount will, even today in 2018 there is still: a99mk2 + a77mk2 + a68

 

[webrunner5]

Out of likes. I completely agree with your statements. Well written thoughts.

[Robert Collins]

32 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Now the Only good rumor I have heard is Canon might, and I mean might, on their top end Mirrorless, have ND filters built into an existing EF mount on it AKA like Sigma does mount wise for their new SD1 Mirrorless cameras. They don't have ND filters in them but there sure as hell is room for them in that snout! That would be a BIG deal if they do it! It might not be the most beautiful Mirrorless on the market but think of a FF Canon Mirrorless needing no EF lens adapter and ND's in it. Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner!

I do think switchable nd filters are a sort of holy grail tech for cameras (but I doubt we will see in Canon mirrorless,)

I actually think a solution like this is pretty elegant - a lens with a built in switchable nd

https://dronedj.com/2017/10/12/dji-16mm-lens/