Canon 5D IV HDMI like 1DC / 1DXII 1080p 4:2:2 output

[mercer]

Also, what lenses did you use and did you notice any variation with DPAF performance based on the lens you used?

[MdB]

21 hours ago, mercer said:

@521photo Thanks a lot for all of that info. You actually already answered some of my follow up questions. I shoot ML Raw, so I’m not afraid of large file sizes. I’d probably get the C Log version if I decide to go that route, but as of now, I think the C100 is winning.

Do you have a link to your film?

C100 is a great camera. For 5D IV money you can pick up a MkII. I just took delivery of a near mint 1DC, the S35 mode is indeed quite similar (if not better) than the C100, it certainly has a bit chunkier files. I like this camera a lot for that very reason, S35 with GREAT 1080p SOOC with Log is fantastic. PLUS the camera does really lovely 4K if called upon PLUS is a really great stills camera. If you need something run-n-gun then the C100 is probably still the better choice, but for me the formats this camera shoots make it very very flexible indeed. Needs a decent monitor, but so does the C100 in my opinion and the EVF on that camera is utter garbage anyway. Plus this camera also does that great 4K to 1080p HDMI downsampling. So I figure this plus a Video Assist should be able to cover most bases. 

From here I will wait to see what happens with Canon mirrorless, but even if there is no FF blah blah, I think they are about to get a lot more serious with video (and they have said as much) and so even models like the M5 II will likely be a decent step above say the M50 (and everything that came before). If not I may end up adding the 5D IV. 

[webrunner5]

11 hours ago, MdB said:

C100 is a great camera. For 5D IV money you can pick up a MkII. I just took delivery of a near mint 1DC, the S35 mode is indeed quite similar (if not better) than the C100, it certainly has a bit chunkier files. I like this camera a lot for that very reason, S35 with GREAT 1080p SOOC with Log is fantastic. PLUS the camera does really lovely 4K if called upon PLUS is a really great stills camera. If you need something run-n-gun then the C100 is probably still the better choice, but for me the formats this camera shoots make it very very flexible indeed. Needs a decent monitor, but so does the C100 in my opinion and the EVF on that camera is utter garbage anyway. Plus this camera also does that great 4K to 1080p HDMI downsampling. So I figure this plus a Video Assist should be able to cover most bases. 

From here I will wait to see what happens with Canon mirrorless, but even if there is no FF blah blah, I think they are about to get a lot more serious with video (and they have said as much) and so even models like the M5 II will likely be a decent step above say the M50 (and everything that came before). If not I may end up adding the 5D IV. 

Pretty great for a 5 year old camera. I would love to have one, but out of my reach sad to say. The Sony A7 mk  III is probably my best bet for FF if I upgrade my A7s..

[mercer]

On 7/25/2018 at 11:09 PM, MdB said:

C100 is a great camera. For 5D IV money you can pick up a MkII. I just took delivery of a near mint 1DC, the S35 mode is indeed quite similar (if not better) than the C100, it certainly has a bit chunkier files. I like this camera a lot for that very reason, S35 with GREAT 1080p SOOC with Log is fantastic. PLUS the camera does really lovely 4K if called upon PLUS is a really great stills camera. If you need something run-n-gun then the C100 is probably still the better choice, but for me the formats this camera shoots make it very very flexible indeed. Needs a decent monitor, but so does the C100 in my opinion and the EVF on that camera is utter garbage anyway. Plus this camera also does that great 4K to 1080p HDMI downsampling. So I figure this plus a Video Assist should be able to cover most bases. 

From here I will wait to see what happens with Canon mirrorless, but even if there is no FF blah blah, I think they are about to get a lot more serious with video (and they have said as much) and so even models like the M5 II will likely be a decent step above say the M50 (and everything that came before). If not I may end up adding the 5D IV. 

Sorry, just saw this. 

For the longest time, the 1DC was my dream camera, so paint me jealous.

Although, I MAY be able to afford a 1DC or 5D4, I like the idea of using the original C100. The image is still good enough for small jobs, if I decide to go that route, plus the obvious benefits of a cinema camera. It won’t be a competing camera in my toolbox, it will be a different tool for a different job... be it paid work or my short films... and I love the price.

But more than likely, I’ll wait to see what Canon’s FF mirrorless will look like and the upcoming M5ii. I prefer to delineate cameras for different jobs, so my 5D3 will be for Raw video. And any other camera would be for stills (I really need a casual grab and go camera for family stuff) and possibly another for quick turnaround video (hence the C100).

I could decide to go with a hybrid and I guess with what’s out today, I would choose the 5D4 or the Fuji XH1.

[MdB]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

For the longest time, the 1DC was my dream camera, so paint me jealous.

Me too. Missed out on one twice and nearly missed this one. Got it as basically new condition for less than an equivalent 1DX - Pretty stoked. 

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Although, I MAY be able to afford a 1DC or 5D4, I like the idea of using the original C100. The image is still good enough for small jobs, if I decide to go that route, plus the obvious benefits of a cinema camera. It won’t be a competing camera in my toolbox, it will be a different tool for a different job... be it paid work or my short films... and I love the price.

Honestly the C100 is still a very very viable camera. WAY more practical than a 1DC in my experience of both. I thought I would have a C100 and a 1DC for those times that I really needed the special look and that's probably what I'll end up with. I sold my MkI with the plan to buy a MkII just for the better viewfinder and the DPAF upgrade plus the 50/60p. But it hasn't happened yet. I still miss it, a lot. The 1DC in my opinion does not have as a nice output in the S35 mode, it's nice but not C100 nice. The 1080p out of the HDMI using the 4K mode IS better. BUT then you either need monsterous CF cards or you miss out on dual record you get on the C100. The 4K is very nice, I haven't given it that much of a workout. But man that output going to my new BM Video Assist 5" (which is a perfect match for this camera IMO) is nice and has a lot of flexibility in post. Pretty bad rolling shutter in that mode though, unlike the S35 and C100. C100 just looks SO good with such natural motion with great rolling shutter. 

Add XLRs, NDs, EVF, mounting points, full sized HDMI, amazing grip, top handle, perfect size and controls AND DPAF. 

C100 (I or II) is a better tool. 1DC is a great stills camera with some really lovely video output when absolutely needed. 

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, MdB said:

Me too. Missed out on one twice and nearly missed this one. Got it as basically new condition for less than an equivalent 1DX - Pretty stoked. 

Honestly the C100 is still a very very viable camera. WAY more practical than a 1DC in my experience of both. I thought I would have a C100 and a 1DC for those times that I really needed the special look and that's probably what I'll end up with. I sold my MkI with the plan to buy a MkII just for the better viewfinder and the DPAF upgrade plus the 50/60p. But it hasn't happened yet. I still miss it, a lot. The 1DC in my opinion does not have as a nice output in the S35 mode, it's nice but not C100 nice. The 1080p out of the HDMI using the 4K mode IS better. BUT then you either need monsterous CF cards or you miss out on dual record you get on the C100. The 4K is very nice, I haven't given it that much of a workout. But man that output going to my new BM Video Assist 5" (which is a perfect match for this camera IMO) is nice and has a lot of flexibility in post. Pretty bad rolling shutter in that mode though, unlike the S35 and C100. C100 just looks SO good with such natural motion with great rolling shutter. 

Add XLRs, NDs, EVF, mounting points, full sized HDMI, amazing grip, top handle, perfect size and controls AND DPAF. 

C100 (I or II) is a better tool. 1DC is a great stills camera with some really lovely video output when absolutely needed. 

Yeah but isn't the C100 mk I even with the DPAF limited to just the central point for focus? That seems kind of limiting to me.

[Django]

Yeah the DPAF inside the C100 mk1 is pretty basic & primitive compared to what it can do now, but i still find it more reliable than any video AF from another company.

To get the best out of it you've got to set it up in a semi-automatic way  using AF lock assign button but also using composition techniques to nail shots. 

PB breaks it down well here:

 

[mercer]

@MdB thanks for the info. If only Canon would update the 1DC at current C Line or 1DXii pricing. If they used RawLite, there would be a perfect A and B cam set up that would be hard to ignore.

In the meantime, I’m hoping to find a used C100 for $1300 or less. Anything more and I’m unsure if it will be worth the investment for me. Any paid work I do will be small jobs (birthday parties, family reunions) or second shooter type of work. I don’t expect to make a living out of it, but I hope it will pay off the camera and fund my short films.

At any higher of a price, I may as well pick up an a6000 and RX10. Or even an 80D for the DPAF to make my life easier. I probably won’t get second shooter jobs with those but I can easily recoup the costs with small jobs found on Craigslist. Obviously, the higher cost of the C100 is worth it over the Sonys and the 80D because I can also shoot some of my own narrative work with it.

[MdB]

46 minutes ago, mercer said:

@MdB thanks for the info. If only Canon would update the 1DC at current C Line or 1DXii pricing. If they used RawLite, there would be a perfect A and B cam set up that would be hard to ignore.

In the meantime, I’m hoping to find a used C100 for $1300 or less. Anything more and I’m unsure if it will be worth the investment for me. Any paid work I do will be small jobs (birthday parties, family reunions) or second shooter type of work. I don’t expect to make a living out of it, but I hope it will pay off the camera and fund my short films.

At any higher of a price, I may as well pick up an a6000 and RX10. Or even an 80D for the DPAF to make my life easier. I probably won’t get second shooter jobs with those but I can easily recoup the costs with small jobs found on Craigslist. Obviously, the higher cost of the C100 is worth it over the Sonys and the 80D because I can also shoot some of my own narrative work with it.

Not to state the obvious, but C100 and 80D are just such completely different leagues. I wouldn’t use 80D footage personally, C100 on the other hand is gorgeous. It’s also about a million times more enjoyable to use, plus SO much more practical. 

Save for the C100, you will be so grateful you did. Wait it out, they’ve gotten so affordable. I sold mine for $1600 AUD, which is less than $1300 USD. I’ve seen others for similar price. I’m halfway tempted to buy another one, but with DPAF. But then I can get a MkII for not ‘that’ much more. C100 is worth every penny. 

[mercer]

1 minute ago, MdB said:

Not to state the obvious, but C100 and 80D are just such completely different leagues. I wouldn’t use 80D footage personally, C100 on the other hand is gorgeous. It’s also about a million times more enjoyable to use, plus SO much more practical. 

Save for the C100, you will be so grateful you did. Wait it out, they’ve gotten so affordable. I sold mine for $1600 AUD, which is less than $1300 USD. I’ve seen others for similar price. I’m halfway tempted to buy another one, but with DPAF. But then I can get a MkII for not ‘that’ much more. C100 is worth every penny. 

I don’t disagree with you, but for me this is a means to an end. My real job is in the trade show industry and it is crazy the amount of 80Ds being used to record trade show footage for Fortune 500 companies.

With that being said, I will hold out for a good deal on a C100. Honestly, I’d rather not have to do any paid work and just shoot Raw on my 5D3 but short films are becoming way too expensive as a hobbyist. I’m a year into a short film that I am so thrilled about and excited for the possibilities but I cannot find a leading actress that shares my enthusiasm if dollar signs aren’t attached. Honestly, if I can find that actress, I may abandon the idea of getting a C100 and trudge forward as a “serious” narrative hobbyist... it sucks how I have to label myself on forums... there aren’t enough adjectives... my girlfriend would probably add dumbass...

[MdB]

9 minutes ago, mercer said:

I don’t disagree with you, but for me this is a means to an end. My real job is in the trade show industry and it is crazy the amount of 80Ds being used to record trade show footage for Fortune 500 companies.

I don't doubt that for a moment. Doesn't mean that's what you have to use

I sold my C100 to a guy with a GH5, he LOVES it. He vastly prefers the output of the C100 and so do I. It can easily be used for narrative work as well as trade shows and events etc. It's just an absolute workhorse. NDs, XLRs, C-Log, lovely images, nice weight and balance, perfect grip, access to waveforms and peaking etc. Clean full sized HDMI output, dual recording, huge batteries, Good mounting options. Simple, fast and intuitive operation. If you haven't used one you will get what I mean only when you finally have one. 

[mercer]

19 minutes ago, MdB said:

I don't doubt that for a moment. Doesn't mean that's what you have to use

I sold my C100 to a guy with a GH5, he LOVES it. He vastly prefers the output of the C100 and so do I. It can easily be used for narrative work as well as trade shows and events etc. It's just an absolute workhorse. NDs, XLRs, C-Log, lovely images, nice weight and balance, perfect grip, access to waveforms and peaking etc. Clean full sized HDMI output, dual recording, huge batteries, Good mounting options. Simple, fast and intuitive operation. If you haven't used one you will get what I mean only when you finally have one. 

I don’t doubt it for a moment. @webrunner5 shared this video with me the other day that he found online.

This would be the exact way I would use the camera for narratives... Stripped down to its basics for a verite feel.

[MdB]

4 minutes ago, mercer said:

I don’t doubt it for a moment. @webrunner5 shared this video with me the other day that he found online.

This would be the exact way I would use the camera for narratives... Stripped down to its basics for a verite feel.

I like top handle for some things, but it's nice to be able not to use it. I would use the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 on mine as the weight and natural balance (plus the very low rolling shutter) meant you can get a very natural camera movement free of nasty IS artefacts / artificial look. The other thing this camera REALLY needs, is a decent monitor. I would chuck on a 5" FHD lightweight one or a Blackmagic Video Assist. I would prefer the latter, but those cheap monitors would be fine. I used a bigger Atomos Ninja Flame for a while, but it was just big and clunky and awful. The VA has beenabsolutely fantastic though.

45 minutes ago, mercer said:

Honestly, I’d rather not have to do any paid work and just shoot Raw on my 5D3 but short films are becoming way too expensive as a hobbyist. I’m a year into a short film that I am so thrilled about and excited for the possibilities but I cannot find a leading actress that shares my enthusiasm if dollar signs aren’t attached. Honestly, if I can find that actress, I may abandon the idea of getting a C100 and trudge forward as a “serious” narrative hobbyist... it sucks how I have to label myself on forums... there aren’t enough adjectives... my girlfriend would probably add dumbass...

haha this is a tricky one, but they are out there. Where are you based? Love the label

My wife would add the same. 

[mercer]

1 hour ago, MdB said:

I like top handle for some things, but it's nice to be able not to use it. I would use the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 on mine as the weight and natural balance (plus the very low rolling shutter) meant you can get a very natural camera movement free of nasty IS artefacts / artificial look. The other thing this camera REALLY needs, is a decent monitor. I would chuck on a 5" FHD lightweight one or a Blackmagic Video Assist. I would prefer the latter, but those cheap monitors would be fine. I used a bigger Atomos Ninja Flame for a while, but it was just big and clunky and awful. The VA has beenabsolutely fantastic though.

haha this is a tricky one, but they are out there. Where are you based? Love the label

My wife would add the same. 

I’m in the states in Southern New Jersey, right outside of Philadelphia. I’m sure I’ll find someone eventually and being a hobbyist means I can take my time.

I’ve been obsessed with the Canon 28mm 1.8 lately on my 5D3. I can go handheld and with the speed get some shallow close ups as well. But with that Super 35mm sensor it won’t be as steady handheld, so I would probably use the 24-70mm f/4 with IS or possibly a fast Sigma 20mm.

The extra monitor is a downside for me. I hate rigging stuff up and since I shoot run and gun, guerrilla style, it’s imperative to keep as small a footprint as possible... for paid jobs it’s a different story though and a good thing to think about... thanks. 

[MdB]

A Good Samaritan has kindly helped me out and done some side by side recordings of the FF 1080p mode and 1.7x 4K crop mode both recorded via the HDMI output to a BMVA4K. The results are basically as I expected, the 5D IV looks much nicer in that downsampled 4K mode and does seem to work in that way. I think with C-Log and DPAF using this recording method makes it a pretty killer option and am definitely looking to add one to my kit now. 

As an aside, the in camera 1080p does IMO look a lot better than Canon’s earlier efforts, like my 1DC (1DX) and 70D. 

[Django]

Good to know, but at this point I'd probably wait for the Canon FF mirrorless announcement..

https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-full-frame-mirrorless-talk-cr1-2/

[MdB]

24 minutes ago, Django said:

Good to know, but at this point I'd probably wait for the Canon FF mirrorless announcement..

https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-full-frame-mirrorless-talk-cr1-2/

I get that stuff is probably coming, eventually. But there is very little really known about it, seemingly the rumour sites know nothing other than that a new mirrorless is ‘probably’ coming. Most recent news has suggested it is basically a 5D IV in mirrorless form. If that’s the case I see little advantage in waiting. The main real advantage probably being the new processor which can do more compressed 4K like in the M50. I’m not really sure it appeals to me at all. 

Instead I’d like Canon to release a few more EF-M lenses (which sounds like its happening), or better yet Sigma release their DN series for EF-M. 

[Django]

Your money, your call pal.. but Canon aren't going to let Nikon steal all the thunder in the upcoming mirrorless wars presenting themselves in a month at Photokina and a mirrorless 5D4 could signify less 4K crop, less rolling shutter, 120Fps 1080p, zebras/peaking, IBIS etc in a lighter form factor which would be substantially more interesting for video. Of course mount, lens options is the biggest unknown at this point..

 

[mercer]

1 hour ago, Jn- said:

#29 here, I don’t have an external recorder to test the 4K to fhd via hdmi.  Thing is if you admit you own a Canon 5DMk. IV on this site, all your likes are removed and your put in suspension for 3 months.  As an aside, the focal length multiplier is NOT 1.74.

But secretly you love the shit out of the camera and so do your clients probably. 

What’s the multiplier?

[webrunner5]

1.72. ?