Another victim of the Joke Police - James Gunn

[Andrew Reid]

Superb director.

But apparently people die "due to jokes" now

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44912175

It's pretty dangerous to defend Gunn though. given the current climate.

Now I'm starting to realise why the buffoon wreaker Trump won the election. People are genuinely sick of the hysterical PC climate and the impact it has on real lives, yours and ours careers, and our art /freedom of expression.

[cantsin]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Now I'm starting to realise why the buffoon wreaker Trump won the election. People are genuinely sick of the hysterical PC climate and the impact it has on real lives, yours and ours careers, and our art /freedom of expression.

But it was actually the hardcore Trump supporters from the Alt-Right (Mike Cernovich & others) who dug out Gunn's old tweets and denounced him. It's part of the Alt-Right trolling campaign against Hollywood's perceived liberalism (which included Alt-Right trolling against the new Star Wars films having women and African Americans in leading roles, and against the female cast of the Ghostbusters movie). In the case of Gunn, they hated the inclusive and humanist message of "Guardians of the Galaxy", and because Disney/ABC had fired Roseanna Barr:

https://www.inverse.com/article/47279-guardians-galaxy-director-james-gunn-fired-after-alt-right-exposed-pedophile-tweets

[kaylee]

,

[newfoundmass]

Cernovich is definitely alt right. He's made multiple inflammatory statements about race and identified as alt right, only doing an about face after Charlottesville but hasn't changed his views at all.

[Damphousse]

I think this blog needs to stay away from this topic.  The camera information seems to be pretty on point most of the time.  That's why I come here.  Unfortunately the rest of the "reporting" tends to lose the plot right out of the gates.  It is basically fake news.  There are so many factual innaccuracies and omissions it basically makes the reader go on google and do all the journalistic research to find out what the true story is.

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Now I'm starting to realise why the buffoon wreaker Trump won the election. People are genuinely sick of the hysterical PC climate and the impact it has on real lives, yours and ours careers, and our art /freedom of expression.

Trump supporters are the "hysterical" people who started this attack on James Gunn.  I mean if you like Trump that is your choice.  But nothing about this episode justifies anyone voting for him.

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

It's pretty dangerous to defend Gunn though. given the current climate.

No.  Fighting terrorists in Afghanistan is dangerous.  Writing poorly research screeds is not dangerous.  This is the age of fake news.  Anyone can post anything on the internet no matter how nonsensical, because... free speech.

I will say I was savaged by several posters on this forum because I stated that I like multiple Marvel movies.  James Gunn's work at Disney has been first rate.  It is interesting how I was a piece of shit for liking the guy's work but now that people have found out he made jokes about raping little kids he is some kind of genius.  EOSHD crew just working overtime to be edgy.

 

It makes perfect sense that a company founded to entertain children fired a guy for making pedo jokes.  Disney has a brand to protect.  Once this stuff came to light and the Trump supporters said they were going to make a scene at Comicon WTF was Disney supposed to do?

Quote

“The best thing about being raped is when you’re done being raped and it’s like ‘whew this feels great, not being raped!” he wrote in a 2009 tweet.

Hilarious.

I often wonder what people on this forum actually do for money.  It never occurred to me to put something like that in writing.  I would be fired from any job I've ever had as an adult.  I'm not some famous Hollywood director and even as a 22 year old fresh out of college I knew my name in print was potentially a fireable offense.

[IronFilm]

 

 

[OliKMIA]

I recently wrote an article about PC and online hysteria, I quoted Andrew and added some personal element. I don't know the story of M. Gunn, but I also came to the conclusion that Trump won based (among other thing) on a counter reaction of the abuse of non-sense. Saying that doesn't mean that I support Trump because absurdity (Trump) won over non-sense (the distorted PC). The reactions of my  article were priceless, It looks like I was homophobic, member of the far-right and... anti Trump. That's a lot for me !

Yes, one can think that SJW and Trump supporters are stupid, at the same time!!! As Trey Parker (South Park) said:

"What we're sick of—and it's getting even worse—is: you either like Michael Moore or you wanna fuckin' go overseas and shoot Iraqis. There can't be a middle ground. Basically, if you think Michael Moore's full of shit, then you are a super-Christian right-wing whatever. And we're both just pretty middle-ground guys. We find just as many things to rip on on the left as we do on the right. People on the far left and the far right are the same exact person to us."

Unfortunately there is no middle ground anymore. The problem today is that some people just want to get stuck in their world and can't even read a sentence correctly. Facts don't matter anymore. This is not a liberal or conservative issue. Both side are equal in this stupidity.

This story is symbolic:

The author (Andy C. Ngo) is a serious reporter who writes for mainstream newspapers. He had to face very strong reactions after his article covering this story (and the guy is a Vietnamese refugee and gay.. no exactly the Steve Bannon type of profile...)

I think it's important to talk about it because it affects the creative process of many artists.

[Damphousse]

2 hours ago, OliKMIA said:

Unfortunately there is no middle ground anymore. The problem today is that some people just want to get stuck in their world and can't even read a sentence correctly. Facts don't matter anymore.

Kind of like how you and Andrew didn't read the sentence that clearly states it is the Trump supporters you guys are beatifying that led the online attack that took down Gunn?

[Andrew Reid]

Damphousse you prove my point. Nobody is beatifying Trump.

5 hours ago, OliKMIA said:

Yes, one can think that SJW and Trump supporters are stupid, at the same time!!! As Trey Parker (South Park) said:

"What we're sick of—and it's getting even worse—is: you either like Michael Moore or you wanna fuckin' go overseas and shoot Iraqis. There can't be a middle ground. Basically, if you think Michael Moore's full of shit, then you are a super-Christian right-wing whatever. And we're both just pretty middle-ground guys. We find just as many things to rip on on the left as we do on the right. People on the far left and the far right are the same exact person to us."

Unfortunately there is no middle ground anymore. The problem today is that some people just want to get stuck in their world and can't even read a sentence correctly. Facts don't matter anymore. This is not a liberal or conservative issue. Both side are equal in this stupidity.

I think it's important to talk about it because it affects the creative process of many artists.

I agree 100%. There is no middle ground. The internet has shaped public discourse into binary positions, like 1s and 0s.

People are are getting very confused to be quite honest....for example Damphousse above is conflating my opinion and endorsement. Opinions do not equal endorsements.

We're going through an era of western society which is not exactly our finest, and tribalism is taking over amidst all the kerfuffle. One is profiled for one's opinions constantly. For example I might be a liberal, Trump hating centre-ground voting British person, but if you state just one fact that people might misinterpret endorsing him, you're painted into a corner. Same with jokes. Make a bad taste one and it can be used against you in your career.

Today, people misinterpret everything as personal... it always has to be personal! Opinions! Hang on, one could just be stating a fact.... But people will link that in their head to you endorsing the subject. And to hell with context.

An example: Hilary Clinton ran a poor campaign, that's a fact. She lost, that's a fact. It could be interpreted as me being pro-Trump or as a personal opinion.... But she did. She was simply a poor campaigner. Unlike Bernie Sanders. The US is tearing itself apart over Trump and political ideologies. Corporate group-think has a lot to answer for too... Disney can't let themselves be associated in a binary argument with their values at stake vs some shitty joke on Twitter. Of course it's more complex than that... context (stream of thought and his tweets leading up to the jokes), meant as humour, not real, cyberspace, loose talk, banter - the public simply does not take this into account (it's small print and not in the news articles) so Disney had no choice but to fire him.

That is truly scary groupthink.

Here's a personal opinion of mine... this isn't a proven fact, but I honestly think our binary society is being noticed by our enemies. It is being weaponised by the Russians. If we don't sort ourselves out soon and come to our senses, they will rip right through us. They understand propaganda very well and are pitting us against each other. Liberal vs Conservative. Young vs Old. Canon vs Nikon. Windows vs Mac. They are exploiting the online landscape with bots, fake news and fake users, to cause toxic discourse. Some of them are on this very forum.

It's happening everywhere, not just in the US. I haven't heard people talk about much else than Brexit in my home country for 2 years running... That is scary, and to be honest pretty weird. Most people aren't political, but today we are reading politics into our every move and every thought.

[IronFilm]

Another one bites the dust, as Disney fires again over some controversial statements:

https://babylonbee.com/news/disney-fires-thanos-after-uncovering-controversial-statements/

[kidzrevil]

How can you defend this ? @Andrew Reid

“Tell your 3 year old you’re laughing thinking of me ducking 3PO. He’ll appreciate it when older”

I have another despicable “joke” for you to defend

”the expendables was so manly I fucked the shit out of the little pussy boy next to me”

great joke huh. 

[Andrew Reid]

 So fire comedians for making bad jokes...

Who cares?! It's only freedom of expression at stake.

If that is the kind of world we live in now, so be it.

[Damphousse]

24 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Nobody is beatifying Trump.

I never said Trump.  I said "Trump supporters".  There is a difference.  I think there is something clinically wrong with Trump.  I don't think there is something clinically wrong with everyone who voted for him.  You could run an old shoe on the Democratic or Republican ticket and get close to 40% of the votes.  That's just the way it works.  Our elections are about 10-15% of the population at most.

24 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

You are conflating an opinion with an endorsement. Opinions do not equal endorsements.

If you have a positive opinion of something that is a form of endorsement.  Really if you have to try and split hairs that fine you may want to question your opinion.

26 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Damphousse you prove my point.

As other posters have indicated we don't know what your point is.  You go on this screed against attacking people for what they said years ago and then turn around and write a warm positive review of Trump voters... who attacked a man for what he said years ago.  Which is it then?

32 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Hilary Clinton ran a poor campaign, that's a fact. She lost, that's a fact. It could be interpreted as me being pro-Trump or as a personal opinion.... But she did. She was simply a poor campaigner. Unlike Bernie Sanders. The US is tearing itself apart over Trump and political ideologies.

You don't know anything about politics in my country.  And I don't know anything about politics in your country.  Let's refrain from telling each other what is wrong with each other's countries.  I've lived a significant amount of time in my life overseas and I quickly realized I did not have a clue about the nuances that drive things like elections in other countries.

Hillary Clinton did not lose simply because she was a "bad campaigner".

Here is a fact.  There has only been ONE presidential election in the last quarter century where a Republican won the most votes.  I'm going to guess you didn't know that.  Kind of makes you wonder what else you don't know about the American electorate and electoral system.

Who ends up sitting in the Oval Office is the result of a sometimes opaque interplay between a myriad of factors.  The probability a foreigner with scant knowledge of our culture and history would be able to sum up one of the most bizarre elections in our nation's history in two sentences is zero.  Honestly the attempt is offensive on a certain level.  Please leave our election out of your attempt to justify grown men telling sick unfunny jokes.  You have every right to your opinion.  I just ask as a courtesy you leave us out of it.  Make your point on your own, please.

 

[Andrew Reid]

4 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

I never said Trump.  I said "Trump supporters".  There is a difference.  I think there is something clinically wrong with Trump.  I don't think there is something clinically wrong with everyone who voted for him.  You could run an old shoe on the Democratic or Republican ticket and get close to 40% of the votes.  That's just the way it works.  Our elections are about 10-15% of the population at most.

If you have a positive opinion of something that is a form of endorsement.

Is it fuck as like!
You can have a complex multi-faceted opinion on something, pros and cons... and end up having more cons than pros, therefore you don't endorse.

Ever been on a jury?!

4 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

As other posters have indicated we don't know what your point is.

That would explain a lot.

4 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

You go on this screed against attacking people for what they said years ago and then turn around and write a warm positive review of Trump voters...

?!??!

[Damphousse]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

 So fire comedians for making bad jokes...

Who cares?! It's only freedom of expression at stake.

If that is the kind of world we live in now, so be it.

We have a Constitution in the United States and it explicitly says you have all the freedom in the world till you start impinging on other people's rights.

We also have something called property rights in the United States.  Disney is free to determine who can work with one of their properties.  If your behavior does not comport with Disney's code of conduct they have every legal right to tell you to take a hike.

Quote

My right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins.

Gunn has every right to open a studio and make whatever movies he wants.  He can even make porn movies with borderline simulated rape scenes if that is what really makes him happy.

And Trump supporters have every right to repost his past reprehensible tweets.

Gunn has rights, Disney has rights, Trump supporters have rights.

Your problem is you want to pick and choose rights.  You only want to have rights you agree with implement in ways you agree with.  Fortunately that is not the way it works.  People have the right to do things that I find reprehensible.  And I have a right to not allow them to work at my place of business.  We all have rights.

In a society where everyone has rights the best course of action is to offend as few people as possible.

I like the Gunn movies I have seen.  I am sorry to see him go.  But I 100% understand Disney's position.  The only one to blame here is Gunn... and perhaps the people that raised him.

[kidzrevil]

29 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

 So fire comedians for making bad jokes...

Who cares?! It's only freedom of expression at stake.

If that is the kind of world we live in now, so be it.

@Andrew Reid sir. These are jokes about PEDOPHILIA....pedophilia as in sexually abusing children. To make it worse it wasn’t like one joke it was multiple over a lonnnng period of time. Thats funny to you ?  That’s joke material to you ?

[mercer]

They weren’t even funny jokes about pedophilia. He should have been fired by comedy. At least Michael Jackson jokes were humorous.

They were a bit much, but that is by my standards. Who am I to say what jokes somebody else can say. But I can choose to associate with him or not based on those jokes... which is what Disney decided is their right as well.

The good news, for James Gunn, is that he can make films and self distribute those films and I am sure he will have a huge following and make a ton of money.

[Andrew Reid]

See I told you it is dangerous to defend someone in the current climate.

You're confusing my defence of a film director with defending paedophilia.... It's a carbon copy example of what I said earlier about our current odd climate of behaviour.

And you're also confusing the target of the joke.

The target of the provocative jokes were not abused children... but a monstrous comedic version of himself... which has no link to reality. It's pure fiction. A character. On a very trivial, casual medium (Twitter).

As for "In a society where everyone has rights the best course of action is to offend as few people as possible."

That is right out of a dystopian novel.

[kidzrevil]

12 minutes ago, mercer said:

They weren’t even funny jokes about pedophilia. He should have been fired by comedy. At least Michael Jackson jokes were humorous.

They were a bit much, but that is by my standards. Who am I to say what jokes somebody else can say. But I can choose to associate with him or not based on those jokes... which is what Disney decided is their right as well.

The good news, for James Gunn, is that he can make films and self distribute those films and I am sure he will have a huge following and make a ton of money.

See Disney knows that defending things like this is how you lose copious amounts of $ and how careers end so they cut him loose but I digress. This thread is eye opening

11 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

See I told you it is dangerous to defend someone in the current climate.

You're confusing my defence of a film director with defending paedophilia.... It's a carbon copy example of what I said earlier about our current odd climate of behaviour.

And you're also confusing the target of the joke.

The target of the provocative jokes were not abused children... but a monstrous comedic version of himself... which has no link to reality. It's pure fiction. A character. On a very trivial, casual medium (Twitter).

As for "In a society where everyone has rights the best course of action is to offend as few people as possible."

That is right out of a dystopian novel.

Oh trust me I understand you clearly. Crystal even. What you will quickly understand is that you can’t always separate the art from the artist. What aspect of the filmmaker are you defending cause we are clearly talking about these tweets and not his work. This wasn’t some type of super villain character he was trying to build. This was his thoughts, his personalty, Im sure Disney who was very much so invested in him seen the long term patterns (cause it wasn’t one or two tweets and this went on for a long time) of these tweets and knew how damaging they were.

So no I am not confused about this at all and nor was Disney when they cut him loose.

[mercer]

5 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

See Disney knows that defending things like this is how you lose copious amounts of $ and how careers end so they cut him loose but I digress. This thread is eye opening

Yup, it’s pretty simple and Disney, for their image and business model did the only thing they could. They have fans and shareholders to answer to.

As I said before, the jokes weren’t even funny and were uncomfortable to read. You’d think after one bad attempt, he would have learned from his mistake.