Simulating a Tiffen Black Pro Mist filter in post

[TurboRat]

48 minutes ago, kye said:

Reasons that adding the effect in post is better:

• It's free
• It works on all your cameras and lenses without adapters
• It works on all your past footage
• It works on all stock footage
• You can control the strength of it shot to shot
• You can control it within frame (you can have the nice skin smoothing effects on skin and not have it go nuts from a direct light-source also in frame)
• You can change the colour rendering like the Warm Pro Mist filters, or any other tint you care to make (even ones Tiffen doesn't offer)
• You can change the characteristics to emulate their other filters (Black Pro Mist is only one of the filters they offer - https://tiffen.com/diffusion/ )
• You can even have hybrid effects like light sources glow green with a red outer ring around them, all adjustable to taste
• Real filters can have reflections under certain circumstances

Reasons that adding the effect in post isn't better:

• It doesn't work properly if any channel is clipped
• It doesn't work with any light-source that isn't in the frame
• It isn't an exact match to the look

Things that aren't good reasons for doing anything:

• That's how they do it in Hollywood

Exactly some directors want it done in post so they can control the strength or just leave it if it doesnt work in the shot

[DBounce]

1 hour ago, kye said:

Reasons that adding the effect in post is better:

• It's free
• It works on all your cameras and lenses without adapters - so do stocking
• It works on all your past footage - talk to Dr.Who about this one
• It works on all stock footage - well yes, I can't argue with this
• You can control the strength of it shot to shot - you can do this with real filter also
• You can control it within frame (you can have the nice skin smoothing effects on skin and not have it go nuts from a direct light-source also in frame) - Control the set
• You can change the colour rendering like the Warm Pro Mist filters, or any other tint you care to make (even ones Tiffen doesn't offer) 
• You can change the characteristics to emulate their other filters (Black Pro Mist is only one of the filters they offer - https://tiffen.com/diffusion/ ) 
• You can even have hybrid effects like light sources glow green with a red outer ring around them, all adjustable to taste - creativity doesn't stop at the manufactures suggested use.
• Real filters can have reflections under certain circumstances - which is one of the things you cannot emulate but might want to for creative reasons.

Reasons that adding the effect in post isn't better:

• It doesn't work properly if any channel is clipped
• It doesn't work with any light-source that isn't in the frame
• It isn't an exact match to the look

Things that aren't good reasons for doing anything:

• That's how they do it in Hollywood

Having real filters does not prevent you from adding effects in post. I personally use both. I think it's better when you can capture the look you want in camera. If you dig deep enough you can find pros and cons to everything. Personally, I like the reflections that can bounce off the filters. Granted, if it doesn't look right you may have to control the scene by moving lights, adding flags or moving the angle of the camera. To me it all part of the process. These days I try to capture as close to the finished result in camera. 

That said, I understand everyone has a different taste, and different ways of working. In the end you do what works for you. 

[kye]

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

Having real filters does not prevent you from adding effects in post. I personally use both. I think it's better when you can capture the look you want in camera. If you dig deep enough you can find pros and cons to everything. Personally, I like the reflections that can bounce off the filters. Granted, if it doesn't look right you may have to control the scene by moving lights, adding flags or moving the angle of the camera. To me it all part of the process. These days I try to capture as close to the finished result in camera. 

That said, I understand everyone has a different taste, and different ways of working. In the end you do what works for you. 

I agree, everything has pros and cons.  Just think about how every new camera release we all turn ourselves inside out because there's no perfect camera

I think it also depends on what situations you shoot.  Some people have control and the time to tweak things as they shoot, and there are real advantages to getting it right in-camera.  Others are recording with varying levels of control or even influence on their situation, and just getting the shot might be the best they can hope for.  For these people, moving light-sources or tweaking settings just isn't feasible, so adjusting things in post when the pressure is off gives them extra creative expression.

My personal situation is that in shooting my family and travel videos I don't have time to fiddle around with various things.  This is partly because we go where it's interesting and not where the light is good, partly because for me the holiday comes before the photography, and partly because I'm just not skilled enough to operate the camera and think about every variable all at once, which is why I rely on automatic settings for some things.  

I started this thread because I really like the look of the BPM filters and was using the Glow OFX plugin with Resolve (that does an ok job at this effect) and wanted to see how well I could replicate the real filters.  I shared it partly because others might learn something useful, because it's nice to give back to the community, and because writing it up forces me to think clearly and critically about it so I learn more effectively by doing it.

Education is one of those things where everyone wins

Edit: I also really love that look during golden hour when the sun is out of frame but catches the BPM and gives a warm light-leak style rendering to part of the frame.  That's also something you could model through tracking and placing the lens flare effect off screen, but light-leaks and flares is something I haven't added to my videos yet, so maybe that's something I'll explore in the future.  I want to really push my videos but not to the point where the medium gets in the way of the content, if that makes sense

[Mmmbeats]

Another thing to consider is that filters apply the effect to the actual light entering the lens. Post effects are added to the heavily compressed data you end up with in your edit codec. Even the most efficient codecs are massively compressed when you also consider chroma subsampling, debayer, etc. The physical filters have a considerably greater amount of 'data' to manipulate.

[kye]

14 hours ago, Mmmbeats said:

Another thing to consider is that filters apply the effect to the actual light entering the lens. Post effects are added to the heavily compressed data you end up with in your edit codec. Even the most efficient codecs are massively compressed when you also consider chroma subsampling, debayer, etc. The physical filters have a considerably greater amount of 'data' to manipulate.

True, but considering this filter adds a massive blur, I wouldn't think it would make much difference.

Maybe for other filters it might matter.

[fuzzynormal]

On 7/22/2018 at 5:52 AM, DBounce said:

the less you need do in post the better.

My, that's quite a professional way of doing a shoot.

[.mateusz]

kye - do you mind uploading the latest version of your preset? I only see the screenshot of the node tree, but that's not enough for me to play with the idea myself.

If I skipped some info and you did (or plan to sell it, maybe?), then sorry. 

[heart0less]

@.mateusz, here, you can play with my preset, if you'd like.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oonFA-I3ENSPvhJlgL0oneELVgHDK7ql/view?usp=sharing

BTW, are you, by any chance, Polish?
( :

[Xavier Plagaro Mussard]

For low-mid level works, the more you do on camera, the more money you make. For high-end, it probably makes more sense to do it in post. 

[kye]

13 hours ago, Xavier Plágaro Mussard said:

For low-mid level works, the more you do on camera, the more money you make. For high-end, it probably makes more sense to do it in post. 

..and if you're an amateur like me, you're budget limited and partly overwhelmed when shooting but have hours and hours to fiddle in post.

If you're able to spare the extra render time, you can create a nice set of preset looks that you can just apply to each project, so post work doesn't have to take a lot of time.

[Xavier Plagaro Mussard]

On post you can tweak the effect to your liking too, so if you have the time, go ahead!

 

[Torin]

The Google drive file is no longer available. Can you reshare it?

This is exactly what I was looking for!

[heart0less]

15 hours ago, Torin said:

The Google drive file is no longer available. Can you reshare it?

This is exactly what I was looking for!

Works good on my end.

What error do you get?

[heart0less]

Some new source material. 

( :

[buggz]

On 7/22/2018 at 2:09 PM, buggz said:

Tiffen dfx software is now DFT.

I have the expensive version for Resolve.  As well as the standalone version for stills.

I should try this...

>>> Boris FX Acquires Digital Film Tools

Bummer, I hope they honor my exisiting licenses.

[Anaconda_]

On 2/8/2019 at 10:41 PM, heart0less said:

@.mateusz, here, you can play with my preset, if you'd like.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oonFA-I3ENSPvhJlgL0oneELVgHDK7ql/view?usp=sharing

BTW, are you, by any chance, Polish?
( :

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but how can I instal this preset? Using Premiere / Resolve. Thanks!

[heart0less]

If you are in Resolve, head over to Color tab, and Right Click on the area where stills are kept, choose Import Stills and select the file you downloaded. 

Then it's only a matter of applying it on your current grade, eg. using Middle Click on the selected still. 

[heart0less]

This guy didn't really do it in post, but I didn't want to create another thread.

First time ever I've seen someone trying to actually recreate what Pro Mist filters are about.
And he did it with a spray paint, lol.

Side note:
I knew Sony give yellowish skin tones, but I didn't expect a Simpson-ish jaundice.

 

[kye]

24 minutes ago, heart0less said:

This guy didn't really do it in post, but I didn't want to create another thread.

First time ever I've seen someone trying to actually recreate what Pro Mist filters are about.
And he did it with a spray paint, lol.

That is a very interesting look, and definitely usable.

It would be quite a cheap exercise to make a 'set' with some having less passes through the paint, and perhaps trying a variation with a clear varnish instead of black paint or perhaps other types of spray products.  

[JordanWright]

I found the hairspray trick to work quite well