Nikon FF Mirrorless

[ntblowz]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Just like Sony is doing with E and A mount.... 

Oh wait. 

Yup, I expect the same will happen to F mount. It will keep going "strong" for another couple of years then gradually the speed and range of updates to the Nikon F mount ecosystem will contract until you're left with just one DX DSLR and one FX DSLR in their line up. Then they won't get updated for years, and then they'll disappear completely as A mount is about to one day do. 

Same for Olympus 43 system... I guess this is the beginning the end of F mount?

31 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

 I'm going to switch then, as a bare minimum, the whole system has to do what my current one does, even before we get to it being an improvement.  

For me, that, means they'd either need an adapter from day one that gave native AF performance of my existing glass or have 14-24mm f2.8, 24-70mm f2.8, 70-200mm f2.8, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f2.8 in the new mount from day one.

Nikon FT-1 works like using native lens on the Nikon 1 7 years ago, so they already have the technology to do that.

[Django]

i like how Nikon made it official on the day of their 101th b-day!

What excites me the most about the promo page is:

"our ongoing mission is to guide light into the formation of truly superb photos and videos."

please Nikon, give us proper video specs!!

47 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

If the launch ends up being two not inexpensive consumer cameras and a small handful of lenses in the new mount with no support for their existing back catalogue then they'll have a real problem I think.

 

 Not necesarily imo. I think they're aim is to primarily make people shift from Sony/Canon/Fuji/Panny. Current Nikon users will probably wait for the adapter (which will surely be available if not at launch, soon after).

I'm also anticipating a strong compelling lens offering, especially if the F0.95 rumored primes are true. That could be a game changer alone.

 

[BTM_Pix]

32 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Nikon FT-1 works like using native lens on the Nikon 1 7 years ago, so they already have the technology to do that.

Its single centre point and AF-S only so I'd need something with more flexible points and AF-C for what I do but, yes, you would anticipate they'd develop something more elaborate for this generation of camera.   

33 minutes ago, Django said:

Not necesarily imo. I think they're aim is to primarily make people shift from Sony/Canon/Fuji/Panny. Current Nikon users will probably wait for the adapter (which will surely be available if not at launch, soon after).

I see what you are saying but my point is that if you are trying to get someone to shift from those systems then having access to that entire back catalogue of lenses is a strong argument.

If it is only the z mount lenses then every other one of those systems would have multiple more lenses available so it is a big ask to get people to switch.

Especially as the chances of their existing lenses ever working on a Nikon is close to if not zero.

Unlike the other way round of course

[IronFilm]

I strongly hope their new mount is shallow enough that Veydra primes and Fujion MK zooms can be used on it!!

[mercer]

I may be in the market for a hybrid in the next few months. I loved my D5500. If this camera had an F mount, I’d jump on it. Since it won’t, I’ll wait to see what Canon does. Hopefully, there’s will have an EF mount.

[IronFilm]

If the new mount has a 16mm focal flange distance as rumored, then not only lenses which have a removable back to them (like Veydra primes and Fujion MK zooms) but even permanent mount lenses such as say the Rokinon E mount lenses (although why any one buys them in another but a DSLR mount I do not know!) or SLR Magic E mount lenses could be easily adapted with a simple and cheap adapter to the new Nikon mirrorless mount. 

[Danyyyel]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Not to mention the release describing the mount adapter being 'in development', which is fine as the cameras still are too of course, but if that's a hint that its coming after launch then that wouldn't be ideal.

And by not ideal I actually mean pretty rough.

If the launch ends up being two not inexpensive consumer cameras and a small handful of lenses in the new mount with no support for their existing back catalogue then they'll have a real problem I think.

On the basis that they must also know that then maybe it suggests the actual availability of these cameras is further away than people expect. 

We'll know at Fotokina I suppose whether they've made this announcement as a prelude to an imminent release of the products or primarily to lay down a marker against what Canon will be showing there.

Nikon in development press release are always a bit misleading because it always precede the launching date by only one month, happened to the d5, d500, d850. So the cameras, lens and I am sure the adapter is already finalized and ready to go. The only question about the adapter is will it be until what generation of F mount lens will it be compatible. Like will it have screw on motor or not. Nikon knows that the adapter is crucial for it ML camera launch. A good to very good lens adapter will make them jump from last in the class to first in the clas in terms of lens choice.

[IronFilm]

5 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

The only question about the adapter is will it be until what generation of F mount lens will it be compatible. Like will it have screen on motor or not. Nikon knows that the adapter is crucial for it ML camera launch. A good to very good lens adapter will make them jump from last in the class to first in the clas in terms of lens choice.

Hopefully they have two adapters:

1) for modern Nikon F lenses which is very good but relatively affordable
2) supports ALL Nikon F lenses ever made, but more pricey and complex?

They should have shot the video with a Canon to hide what is in the shadows. Boom.... roasted

[Django]

52 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I see what you are saying but my point is that if you are trying to get someone to shift from those systems then having access to that entire back catalogue of lenses is a strong argument.

If it is only the z mount lenses then every other one of those systems would have multiple more lenses available so it is a big ask to get people to switch.

Especially as the chances of their existing lenses ever working on a Nikon is close to if not zero.

Unlike the other way round of course

 

But the adapter has been officially announced..so legacy lens support is a given, and i doubt Nikon won't have it ready for launch, or near launch. i'm more interested however  in details of this said adapter, the revealed patent with mirror inside doesn't sound like ideal solution as far as rendering (btw could anyone clue me in on why a mirror would be needed inside the adapter?! i've got nikon adapters for e-mount & fuji that don't require mirrors) . i've still got a few AI-S, AF-D & G primes i'm quite fond of so definitely curious about the adapter myself..

[IronFilm]

As we take a breather from the exciting mirrorless rumors, we can see how very popular Nikon's traditional DSLRs are, they can't even keep the excellent Nikon D850 in stock because it is in hot demand:

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/24/today-its-july-24th-and-the-nikon-d850-is-still-out-of-stock-in-the-us.aspx/

[Django]

actually that post does not fare well at all for Nikon (USA) as if you read carefully: the camera still has never been in stock at any of the major online camera stores. 

it's not about hot demand but simply Nikon USA never being able to distribute the camera to major retailers! lotta US folks cancelled their pre-order ages ago and moved to other systems as a result.. very strange as D850 has been well stocked here in the EU.
 

[Danyyyel]

4 minutes ago, Django said:

But the adapter has been officially announced..so legacy lens support is a given, and i doubt Nikon won't have it ready for launch, or near launch. i'm more interested however  in details of this said adapter, the revealed patent with mirror inside doesn't sound like ideal solution as far as rendering. i've still got a few AI-S, AF-D & G primes i'm quite fond of so definitely curious about the adapter myself..

They had the patent with the pelicle mirror and its own AF module, might be a bit costly. I asked if it was needed as the Canon M50 doesn't have one and use its dual pixel to focus and I was told it didn't work well wit older lens.

6 minutes ago, Django said:

actually that post does not fare well at all for Nikon (USA) as if you read carefully: the camera still has never been in stock at any of the major online camera stores. 

it's not about hot demand but simply Nikon USA never being able to distribute the camera to major retailers! lotta US folks cancelled their pre-order ages ago and moved to other systems as a result.. very strange as D850 has been well stocked here in the EU.
 

I think they are prioritizing where they get more money, the price is easily 10%+ before tax in the EU.

[BTM_Pix]

17 minutes ago, Django said:

But the adapter has been officially announced..so legacy lens support is a given, and i doubt Nikon won't have it ready for launch, or near launch.

To be fair, and without wishing to get into some circular argument, my original post did say if it wasn't ready from day one and all they had was two bodies and a handful of lenses then it would be rough.

Like you, I doubt they'd be mad enough not to have it at launch too but who knows.

It'll all become clear at Photokina I suppose.

And then the hand wringing about the weather sealing can begin

 

[Andrew Reid]

The adapter is really important for me, I don't have much appetite to clear out all my existing Nikon glass.

And I am sure that goes for a lot of Nikon shooters who are interested in mirrorless.

I can use my Nikon stuff on Sony E-mount with AF, although to be honest the AF sucks - it might be that the data bus on Nikon's lenses is too slow to support PDAF on sensor, which is where that patent would help, with the traditional mirror box PDAF.

A mirror inside the adapter would be really a shame though. They have PDAF on sensor (at least according to the leaks), and surely they can find a way to make it work well with Nikon F mount lenses, even if the bus is slower than Canon EF.... Maybe that patent was just covering their options from a while back before the final spec of the camera was developed.

Not sure there is much customer demand to add a mirror to a mirrorless camera

[Danyyyel]

I just saw that this pelicle mirror adapter patent was done in 2013, so it is quite a long time ago and many things might have changed since then in terms of tech. There surely will have some for of compromise for older lens and I think at least the Nikon d5-d850 will have at least another generation for highend shooters that need crytical Af and will give Nikon a good 5 to 10 years to complete their Nikon Z mount lens lineup.

[Mokara]

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

As we take a breather from the exciting mirrorless rumors, we can see how very popular Nikon's traditional DSLRs are, they can't even keep the excellent Nikon D850 in stock because it is in hot demand:

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/24/today-its-july-24th-and-the-nikon-d850-is-still-out-of-stock-in-the-us.aspx/

That does not necessarily mean there is huge demand, it could simply be that manufacturing is lagging. Unless you know the actual sales numbers you can't say which is which because the manifestation of both scenarios is the same.

[noone]

Given the long lead in times in developing new cameras (and I would imagine even longer for a new mount/system), and given that they seem to be aiming at the Sony A7 higher MP pair, I wonder if they were aiming at the A7Rii and A7ii or the iii's?        If the ii's I could see Nikon engineers getting a lot closer than if the iii's or at least it would be a lot easier for them to achieve.

 

What reasons could they have for such a say nothing announcement?      Stopping some switchers seems most likely to me though I would have thought most would have done already (given Nikon DSLRs are great it isn't for better image quality really with Nikon right now).

 

[Trek of Joy]

11 hours ago, IronFilm said:

As we take a breather from the exciting mirrorless rumors, we can see how very popular Nikon's traditional DSLRs are, they can't even keep the excellent Nikon D850 in stock because it is in hot demand:

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/07/24/today-its-july-24th-and-the-nikon-d850-is-still-out-of-stock-in-the-us.aspx/

IMO part of the 'shortage' is the fact that Nikon's production capacity is being slowed by tooling to build the mirrorless body.

Side note, Nikon issued a presser today about the new camera, note the mention of an adapter:

Nikon Corporation (Nikon) is pleased to announce the development of a full-frame, Nikon FX-format, mirrorless camera and NIKKOR lenses featuring a new mount.

The mirrorless camera and NIKKOR lenses that are in development have enabled the pursuit of a new dimension in optical performance, with the adoption of a new mount. The mirrorless camera is the result of Nikon's advanced optical and manufacturing capabilities gained through over a century of heritage, as well as superior image-processing technology. The expertise built up through the development of Nikon's digital SLR cameras has also critically contributed to this development.

With this new mirrorless camera and NIKKOR lenses, we are committed to providing photographers with the ability to capture images that are richer and more vivid than ever before.

Additionally, a new mount adapter is being developed for the new mirrorless camera. This will work with the NIKKOR F mount lenses that are part of the Nikon digital SLR system, adding to the variety of choices for photographers.

[User]

53 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Side note, Nikon issued a presser today about the new camera, note the mention of an adapter:

Additionally, a new mount adapter is being developed for the new mirrorless camera. This will work with the NIKKOR F mount lenses that are part of the Nikon digital SLR system, adding to the variety of choices for photographers.

They'd be fools not to bring a adapter mount to the equation. Canon will follow suit.

[tupp]

On 7/23/2018 at 1:09 PM, Danyyyel said:

That's not knowing Nikon and in its history.

I know a little bit about Nikon and its history.  I was a charter member of NPS, and I've owned Nikon equipment probably for longer than most of the posters of this forum have been alive.

 

 

 

On 7/23/2018 at 1:09 PM, Danyyyel said:

They take pride in there lens design and heritage and they consider them foremost as an optical company.

  The first tab on the Nikon USA website takes you to their cameras.

 

 

 

On 7/23/2018 at 1:09 PM, Danyyyel said:

They don't want you to adapt Sony or whatever company lens, they want their native lens  on their camera.

 

Of course, all camera  manufacturers would like to sell their own lenses, but there can be no doubt that Sony, Canon, Panasonic and Olympus benefit greatly from all of the other lenses, adapters, focal reducers, etc. that can work with their shallow mounts.

 

If Nikon puts an even shallower mount on their new camera, they will additionally enjoy the possibility of using even more lenses than Sony, Canon, Panasonic and Olympus.  Like I said, if Nikon is smart, it recognizes such an advantage, and it will offer such a shallower mount.