Nikon FF Mirrorless

[Danko]

11 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

There is space on the market for the lightest and smallest possible full frame mirrorless, for sure.

Look at RX1R II and imagine something like that with interchangeable lenses! A dream.

Maybe that's the future for Micro Four Thirds...

Micro Full Frame has a much better ring to it

I wanted RX1R (in all its iterations) to be a more reliable, straight forward tool. I must have stopped by it twenty times in stores.

But to move to Nikon mirrorless - whatever they end up releasing now, I would like for the 'mount-sensor-processor' trinity to allow for different forms now and in future. To be able to make a small(ish) basic camera, with 3 or 4 fps, decent hybrid viewfinder, another one for people who are primarily filming, one with 850 approach. Even fit a sensor larger than FF.

Something that's been bugging me for years, ever since switching to digital. It's about the consistency of the image across the product lines and forms. Working on film, you had the same output whatever you decided to work with. Now, working in parallel with large and small cameras on the same jobs or longer pieces of work, it creates a bit of an obstacle having to calculate how to expose in order to be able to match images, to think about how to size and scale images in sequences. It would be good to have a same output in three different bodies from the same producer. It doesn't have to be the best, just to know what I'm working with.

[nigelbb]

11 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

There is space on the market for the lightest and smallest possible full frame mirrorless, for sure.

Look at RX1R II and imagine something like that with interchangeable lenses! A dream.

Maybe that's the future for Micro Four Thirds...

Micro Full Frame has a much better ring to it

This could be achieved by incorporating a Speedbooster into the MFT camera body.

[SR]

Don't know if this has been posted, but I thought this is pretty big news: the E-mount was actually designed for a crop-sensor.

 

 

[jonpais]

Ken’s video is complete and utter nonsense.

[SR]

16 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Ken’s video is complete and utter nonsense.

Glad to hear that. Was the first time seeing this dude's video. Was a pretty big claim.

[Aussie Ash]

He even recommends the Industar 50mm f3.5 !

 

[kye]

Intersting overview of mirrorless technology aimed at people who aren't familiar with it, but he goes into all sorts of things we talk about on here, like AF, flange distances, sensor sizes, m43, etc..

 

[jonpais]

Hơwever, his very first point is that DSLR AF is limited when compared to mirrorless - yet, it is almost universally acknowldeged that Canon’s DPAF is superior to Sony’s AF. ?

[Robert Collins]

21 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Hơwever, his very first point is that DSLR AF is limited when compared to mirrorless - yet, it is almost universally acknowldeged that Canon’s DPAF is superior to Sony’s AF. ?

Dual pixel af is mirrorless (live view) surely?

However, one of his main points is that mirrorless has an 'always on' sensor while 'normally' a DSLR only exposes the sensor when taking the photograph. 

With the sensor always being on and collecting data, the 'game' has changed to 'how quickly you can get the data off the sensor' and how well you can 'process' it. Sony's continuous eye-af is a good example of that. But going forward we will see computational photography that we already see in smartphones - to reduce noise, increase DR etc...

[jonpais]

Yeah, my bad - he says he’s not talking about live view. 

[Robert Collins]

DPreview did a poll of what people want to see in Canon and Nikon FF mirrorles (they got nearly 4,000 replies.)

Not surprisingly 'full compatibility with existing lenses' came out on top - so these systems will live or die through the quality of their adaptors. (I really hope that Nikon doesnt go with a translucent mirror design.)

IBIS also scores highly (not surprisingly.)

Also note that 'compact size', small affordable primes and lightweight scores high. (Fast primes, substantial grip - not so much.) So I wonder if the Nikon bigger mirrorless is going to be that successful.

[webrunner5]

Yeah but DPR is Mostly Photo shooters, but sure everyone that has Canon, Nikon lenses are hoping like hell they can still use them without some Frankenstein setup to do it.

And yeah they are going to Have to have IBIS in them to compete. I guess we will know soon enough.

[Robert Collins]

13 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but DPR is Mostly Photo shooters, but sure everyone that has Canon, Nikon lenses are hoping like hell they can still use them without some Frankenstein setup to do it.

And yeah they are going to Have to have IBIS in them to compete. I guess we will know soon enough.

I am sure that hybrid mirrorless sales are largely driven by still shooters though. In fact, from a video/film centric view, I think the whole concept of mirrorless hybrid is driven by the fact that you get a very capable video camera that is heavily 'subsidized' by still shooters.

[webrunner5]

25 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

I am sure that hybrid mirrorless sales are largely driven by still shooters though. In fact, from a video/film centric view, I think the whole concept of mirrorless hybrid is driven by the fact that you get a very capable video camera that is heavily 'subsidized' by still shooters.

Yeah really serious Video shooters have got to be a really small minority of the people that buy a mirrorless camera for sure. I take the vast majority of my photos anymore on my Smartphone.

[Trek of Joy]

1 hour ago, Robert Collins said:

DPreview did a poll of what people want to see in Canon and Nikon FF mirrorles (they got nearly 4,000 replies.)

Not surprisingly 'full compatibility with existing lenses' came out on top - so these systems will live or die through the quality of their adaptors. (I really hope that Nikon doesnt go with a translucent mirror design.)

IBIS also scores highly (not surprisingly.)

Also note that 'compact size', small affordable primes and lightweight scores high. (Fast primes, substantial grip - not so much.) So I wonder if the Nikon bigger mirrorless is going to be that successful.

Something I think is interesting that nobody seems to be talking about is the fact that 3rd party adapters will likely be available to adapt Canon DSLR lenses to Nikon are vice versa. I have no doubt CaNikon can pull off good adapters for their own systems - Nikon did it years ago with the 1 system and Canon has done it with the EOS-m - and I'm sure an adapter for a $3-4000 FF camera with as much riding on it as these releases have will be better. But it really opens up some interesting possibilities to mix in glass from the other side or tinker with a body that would be incompatible in DSLR-land.

Chris

[Yurolov]

For those of you forward thinking enough old lenses which are of good quality but lack IS, whether Nikon or canon, will me a lot more desirable if IBIS comes to their mirrorless options. For instance the ef 400 5.6 suddenly becomes a great modern lens and its price might rebound to reflect that.

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

DPreview did a poll of what people want to see in Canon and Nikon FF mirrorles (they got nearly 4,000 replies.)

 

Zero surprise "full compatibility with existing lenses" is #1. 

Surprised high resolution sensor is #2?! Maybe the megapixel wars are not over yet....

Or maybe it is just a symptom of DPR. 

 

2 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

I am sure that hybrid mirrorless sales are largely driven by still shooters though. In fact, from a video/film centric view, I think the whole concept of mirrorless hybrid is driven by the fact that you get a very capable video camera that is heavily 'subsidized' by still shooters.

Bingo. 

97% of the capital costs and costs from ordering from economies of scale and costs spread out from R&D are carried by the stills shooters so us 3% video geeks can reap the benefits :-) 

Cameras like a FS5 or EVA1 can not spread those costs around so far, thus part of the reason why they cost so much more. 

58 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Something I think is interesting that nobody seems to be talking about is the fact that 3rd party adapters will likely be available to adapt Canon DSLR lenses to Nikon are vice versa. I have no doubt CaNikon can pull off good adapters for their own systems - Nikon did it years ago with the 1 system and Canon has done it with the EOS-m - and I'm sure an adapter for a $3-4000 FF camera with as much riding on it as these releases have will be better. But it really opens up some interesting possibilities to mix in glass from the other side or tinker with a body that would be incompatible in DSLR-land.

 

Am 100% sure there will be third party adapters coming out very soon, but for Nikon to hit these new cameras out of the ballpark then they need their own very high quality adapter from day 1 that is specifically for their Nikon F mount lenses. 

 

[Danyyyel]

So that's the latest teaser from Nikon, what it is confirming is that the size of the Mount will be huge, could fit a hasselblad 44x43 mm sensor. But I think this will give is much better IBIS for full frame camera and some unique lens like .95 Noct primes that they have patented. The more I think about this new Nikon Mirrorless Nikon camera is that the saying that Nikon might be late but when they come, they come with a bang. No one was guessing that this new mount would be that big and the more you think about it, the more it looks like a move that will last for another half a century at least. My guess is that Sony will be in big trouble, in this range of Mirrorless cameras and will have to see what Canon comes out next.

[kye]

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Surprised high resolution sensor is #2?! Maybe the megapixel wars are not over yet....

Do you think that "high resolution" means the kind of high-but-existing resolutions like the 40-50MP sensors we have already, or beyond those to 100+MP?

If you were asking stills shooters what the new we-built-a-new-architecture-from-the-ground-up camera would include, I'm not surprised they'd want more MP rather than less.

You have to take a lot of photos for storage sizes and write performance to be anything like we face in video, but more MP means you can crop, do better NR, and all kinds of other things which are useful in the real world.  Like we talk about 4K giving the possibility to downscale or crop to 1080 but potentially having a much larger crop factor than 2.

Stills is a different game to video.

[Robert Collins]

23 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

So that's the latest teaser from Nikon, what it is confirming is that the size of the Mount will be huge, could fit a hasselblad 44x43 mm sensor. But I think this will give is much better IBIS for full frame camera and some unique lens like .95 Noct primes that they have patented. The more I think about this new Nikon Mirrorless Nikon camera is that the saying that Nikon might be late but when they come, they come with a bang. No one was guessing that this new mount would be that big and the more you think about it, the more it looks like a move that will last for another half a century at least. My guess is that Sony will be in big trouble, in this range of Mirrorless cameras and will have to see what Canon comes out next.

Interesting they have increased the pin count....