Nikon FF Mirrorless

[kye]

5 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

Interesting they have increased the pin count....

If it's going to last another 100 years, designing it with more pins than you think you'll need, or even some spares would make sense.

Who knows what kind of currently-unknown technologies will come into play during that time..  

[Robert Collins]

29 minutes ago, kye said:

If it's going to last another 100 years, designing it with more pins than you think you'll need, or even some spares would make sense.

Who knows what kind of currently-unknown technologies will come into play during that time..  

True. DJI's mount already has one more pin than them, though.

I notice they chose not to correct two previous problems.

1. The connector pins remain on the top of the mount rather than the bottom

2. The lens release button is on the wrong side especially for mirrorless.

[kye]

56 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

True. DJI's mount already has one more pin than them, though.

I notice they chose not to correct two previous problems.

1. The connector pins remain on the top of the mount rather than the bottom

2. The lens release button is on the wrong side especially for mirrorless.

Interesting.  Maybe it's a legacy thing for adapters?

I would imagine that their product design would be pretty sophisticated - they've been at/near the top for a long time!

[Danyyyel]

By all account from Nikon Rumors, it will be very close in size and ergonomic to the Panasonic G9. 

[Robert Collins]

Yes, sure.

And while I dont like the lens release located on that side of the lens - to change lenses. It looks as though they have located 3 function buttons on the other side of the lens to use while shooting...

...And you certainly dont want someone to confuse a function button with a lens release button!!

[Nikkor]

Robert get a life, lol. Are you left handed? Most people are right handed, why would those want to do the complicated part with the left hand? (plugging the lens into the lens mount).

[Robert Collins]

59 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

Robert get a life, lol. Are you left handed? Most people are right handed, why would those want to do the complicated part with the left hand? (plugging the lens into the lens mount).

Huh? Cameras are designed to be held one handed on the right hand side - that is why they have a grip there (and the lens release should be there.)

Holding a camera on the short left hand side is uncomfortable because the left hand generally holds the lens 'which is convenient for taking the lens off and putting it on'

I know because I used to have an Olympus that had the lens release on the wrong side which was very stressful. In fact, I would often have to spend a day in bed after changing lenses, simply to recover.

[Nikkor]

8 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

Huh? Cameras are designed to be held one handed on the right hand side - that is why they have a grip there (and the lens release should be there.)

Holding a camera on the short left hand side is uncomfortable because the left hand generally holds the lens 'which is convenient for taking the lens off and putting it on'

I know because I used to have an Olympus that had the lens release on the wrong side which was very stressful. In fact, I would often have to spend a day in bed after changing lenses, simply to recover.

It must be funny to see you changing lenses.

[Geoff CB]

I loved my Nikon gear from an ergonomics perspective, but I agree with Robert, the position of the lens release does not make sense.

[Trek of Joy]

3 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

By all account from Nikon Rumors, it will be very close in size and ergonomic to the Panasonic G9. 

I'd say this is a good thing, that's a great camera in hand.

Chris

1 hour ago, Robert Collins said:

Huh? Cameras are designed to be held one handed on the right hand side - that is why they have a grip there (and the lens release should be there.)

Holding a camera on the short left hand side is uncomfortable because the left hand generally holds the lens 'which is convenient for taking the lens off and putting it on'

I know because I used to have an Olympus that had the lens release on the wrong side which was very stressful. In fact, I would often have to spend a day in bed after changing lenses, simply to recover.

So Canon and Nikon have been doing it wrong all these years putting the lens release on the left? 

Given how tight the grip is on the a7's with fatter lenses, I wish Sony would put the lens release button on the left - like the vast majority of cameras sold today.

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

So that's the latest teaser from Nikon, what it is confirming is that the size of the Mount will be huge, could fit a hasselblad 44x43 mm sensor. But I think this will give is much better IBIS for full frame camera and some unique lens like .95 Noct primes that they have patented. The more I think about this new Nikon Mirrorless Nikon camera is that the saying that Nikon might be late but when they come, they come with a bang. No one was guessing that this new mount would be that big and the more you think about it, the more it looks like a move that will last for another half a century at least. My guess is that Sony will be in big trouble, in this range of Mirrorless cameras and will have to see what Canon comes out next.

I seriously am suspecting that Nikon might make their new mirrorless mount big enough to leave the door open for one day in the future putting a medium format sensor inside their new mirrorless cameras. (which would be the opposite approach to Sony? Who I think started out a bit too small as they only had APS-C in mind, but then years later squeezed in a FF sensor for their a7 series)

6 hours ago, kye said:

Do you think that "high resolution" means the kind of high-but-existing resolutions like the 40-50MP sensors we have already, or beyond those to 100+MP?

I seriously hope it does not mean over a hundred megapixels!!

That is just beyond overkill for all mere mortals.

6 hours ago, kye said:

You have to take a lot of photos for storage sizes and write performance to be anything like we face in video, but more MP means you can crop, do better NR, and all kinds of other things which are useful in the real world.  Like we talk about 4K giving the possibility to downscale or crop to 1080 but potentially having a much larger crop factor than 2.

More megapixels are meaningless if you don't have ultra steady hands with insane IBIS and super high shutter speeds.

 

[Robert Collins]

30 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

So Canon and Nikon have been doing it wrong all these years putting the lens release on the left?

Well sort of.

(I could also argue that Leica has always had the lens release button on the right side and Pentax used to have the button on the wrong side and have now got it on the right side.)

My guess would be that Canon and Nikon's 'tradition' for having the lens release on the 'wrong' side stems from the fact that when it was first introduced, it 'actually released the lens'. So if you accidentally pressed it the lens would literally fall off. So the lens release button was placed in the most inconvenient place possible.

But seriously.... take the 1kg Leica SL..... (looks a bit like the Nikon mirrorless)

....try putting the lens release on the left hand side and think about holding it with your left hand to put a lens on with your right hand. Totally daft right?

[noone]

I doubt it will even come close to covering medium format as it would be much smaller than current medium format cameras and that is with the smaller MF size sensor being used than older film cameras.

On the lens change button, I have never really thought about it before but I do much prefer it as it is on the Sony's.      It just feels natural ( with my A7s - thumb behind camera and hit the button with my middle finger and take lens off/put on with the left hand).       That is like everything to do with ergonomics though and is subjective.

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

By all account from Nikon Rumors, it will be very close in size and ergonomic to the Panasonic G9. 

Nice! If they're going to follow anything existing from mirrorless then the G9 but with a FF sensor is a good start. 

 

[jonpais]

32 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Given how tight the grip is on the a7's with fatter lenses, I wish Sony would put the lens release button on the left - like the vast majority of cameras sold today.

It’s nuts trying to reach the release button on the a7 III. 

Hopefully they issue a firmware update. ?

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, Nikkor said:

Robert get a life, lol. Are you left handed? Most people are right handed, why would those want to do the complicated part with the left hand? (plugging the lens into the lens mount).

You only change a lens a few times during a day, and often with relatively full concentration on the task at hand. 

But shooting? You're doing that constantly, and you're looking through the EVF so blind as to where your hands are, while juggling framing/exposore/directing/etc to grab the right moment to capture. 

I think Nikon did this perfectly right, have the lens release on the left, have the other important buttons at your finger tips for your right hand just next to where your hand has curled round to. 

It is better to compromise (not that I even see it as a compromise) something you do rarely than to compromise something you do frequently. 

[noone]

If I take three lenses on a walk with me (which is normal) or to a concert/gig, I will change lenses often and sometimes while juggling the three if I just use the one small bag and for me it is much easier the Sony way.         Since my A7s is not stabilized, the limited amount of video I shoot is mostly done on a tripod but again, it is still easier for me the Sony way (have used just about all brands since the film days).

Again, this is very subjective and no maker is going to please everyone.

I still have a camera that doesn't HAVE a lens release button as you just unscrew the lenses (Pentax Spotmatic) and that can get scary if you are too firm focusing.

[BTM_Pix]

The release button being on the left on Nikon cameras is to do with the traditional functions of the controls on the right on the film cameras, which were for self timer and depth of field preview.

The latter physically engages with the aperture control lever in the lens to stop the lens down to enable the preview so you can retain the viewfinder brightness of having the lens wide open when you are focusing and composing but still be able to check the depth of field before you press the shutter.

This functionality is carried on through all their DSLRs today (along with the additional programmable buttons) which means if you are an old git like me then the muscle memory you've built up from starting with an F2 back in the stone age is still valid on a D5 but crucially the lenses that you had attached to it will still work too.

It might seem archaic in the age of constant preview for mirrorless (and it is for electronically controlled Nikkors) but its still relevant for Nikon as they have that big back catalogue of lenses that don't have electronic control and have to be engaged physically.

I've no idea why they decided originally to put it on that side - though I personally think it makes more sense to keep the lens release away from your 'busy' hand - but once they'd done it they had and have to even now stick to it in order to support all their lenses.

The problem for me comes when I'm swapping between my Nikon/Canon/Panasonic cameras to my Sony/Fuji/Leica/Sigma ones and thinking "where the f*** is the lens release"  

And, like when you get in a different car and try and find the windscreen wipers and indictors, you can guarantee that its on the opposite side to the one you've most recently been using !

The biggest issue is if I use a Leica R lens on my A6500 with the TechArt adapter as I also have to have a Canon adapter in the middle of it and each step has a lens release on the different side so its like doing a Rubik's cube to deconstruct it.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

Muscle memory, that it is. And guess what: I bet that the new lenses will keep focusing in the opposite direction of the Canon ones.

Nikon does not want to infuriate their long time customers.

[Geoff CB]

16 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

The release button being on the left on Nikon cameras is to do with the traditional functions of the controls on the right on the film cameras, which were for self timer and depth of field preview.

The latter physically engages with the aperture control lever in the lens to stop the lens down to enable the preview so you can retain the viewfinder brightness of having the lens wide open when you are focusing and composing but still be able to check the depth of field before you press the shutter.

This functionality is carried on through all their DSLRs today (along with the additional programmable buttons) which means if you are an old git like me then the muscle memory you've built up from starting with an F2 back in the stone age is still valid on a D5 but crucially the lenses that you had attached to it will still work too.

It might seem archaic in the age of constant preview for mirrorless (and it is for electronically controlled Nikkors) but its still relevant for Nikon as they have that big back catalogue of lenses that don't have electronic control and have to be engaged physically.

I've no idea why they decided originally to put it on that side - though I personally think it makes more sense to keep the lens release away from your 'busy' hand - but once they'd done it they had and have to even now stick to it in order to support all their lenses.

The problem for me comes when I'm swapping between my Nikon/Canon/Panasonic cameras to my Sony/Fuji/Leica/Sigma ones and thinking "where the f*** is the lens release"  

And, like when you get in a different car and try and find the windscreen wipers and indictors, you can guarantee that its on the opposite side to the one you've most recently been using !

The biggest issue is if I use a Leica R lens on my A6500 with the TechArt adapter as I also have to have a Canon adapter in the middle of it and each step has a lens release on the different side so its like doing a Rubik's cube to deconstruct it.

Haha yeah. I used locking FD lenses on my A7rII right after switching away from a Nikon body. That was fun to get my head around.