Shooting at 200 ASA Again

[Ed_David]

Now we all shoot at 800 asa. actually, I have heard some younger people get upset if they can't shoot at 1600 asa.  Pretty amazing to me.

Since most modern cameras can do this easily, and that gives you enough natural light in most locations, you just come in and shoot.  The style these days is use what already exists, and augment the lighting, and use grip to subtract light.

Subtracting light.  Before ASA 800, when many of us were shooting at around 200 ASA, you would add light.

Now we show up, use a window light - maybe put one light outside of it, and then 4-7 pieces of gripwear to cut it. 

Toppers, cutters, siders, eggcrates.   

But a recent job I did for a liquor commercial, we were shooting with the digital bolex as a b camera.  The bolex is a beautiful organic image, with a ccd sensor for beautiful motion and the ability to use 16mm glass, which is beautiful and lightweight.  We lit for this camera's low native iso, and the A camera, the alexa, we set at 200 ASA as well. 

At 200 ASA, I was back to where I started 10 years ago, and it was thrilling again.  

Light didn't spill all over the place - it faded into the darkness, had lots of falloff - and everything was deliberate. We Could liGHT up spaces deep in the bar with red color, and push light into areas we wanted, and hide the rest.  It was easier to do, since there were less stands to place on the ground and less rigging to do.

Grip takes up a lot of space and stands.   Lights -  not as much.

And we ended up making the bar more interesting than what it was - we transformed it. 

(I'll post videos and stills once the spots are released.

It was putting on a different brain from an earlier era - cause we had to move a different way. 

And we painted with 1k tungsten lights in a jem ball again and got that tungsten warmth again.  That color of a tungsten fresnel - it has a golden warmth to it.  Coming back to it, it reminded me of how unmatched by LEDs which have more green and yellow in them than that pure lovely orange glow are these chinese balls.

To rediscover those old tungsten fresnel units, that was also important to me.  These old lights you can now get as every grip house throws them out, as the world has moved onto led lighting like skypanels, these old lights are a thing of beauty.

[webrunner5]

Out of likes. Great stuff. Yeah the old stuff is good, but heavy, really heavy, expensive, and kind of dangerous to boot. Yeah but as you said, sometimes less is better, even lesser cameras. I don't think living in a 8K world, or even higher is going to be some blessing in the long run. Maybe for open heart surgery cameras, but to be artistic, nah I doubt it.

[Ed_David]

On 7/26/2018 at 2:58 PM, webrunner5 said:

Out of likes. Great stuff. Yeah the old stuff is good, but heavy, really heavy, expensive, and kind of dangerous to boot. Yeah but as you said, sometimes less is better, even lesser cameras. I don't think living in a 8K world, or even higher is going to be some blessing in the long run. Maybe for open heart surgery cameras, but to be artistic, nah I doubt it.

I wouldn't mind shooting at 14k - its more about how the camera sees light and shadows for me.

[webrunner5]

I think a lot of it comes back to what they called the Thick Negative when I was young, and I guess it is a Thick Digital File today. It takes bit rate, high bit rates to make that happen. 12, 14, even 16 bit files.  And I argue low ISO even if it can go high. And well it has to be exposed right or you have wasted your time. Sure more resolution doesn't hurt either. But I think it may at times look too good. 35mm film for photos really is not as much resolution as people think. Micheal at Luminous Landscape pegged it at around 6 to 7 mp. Basically a Canon 20D. Now I am not sure how it equates to movies resolution wise?

The little BMPCC proves higher bit rates really work. Best bang for the buck I think ever made.  I hope like heck this New PK4 continues the look it had, and has. It appears like it maybe a ton better in low light, but you still need lighting to set the mood, highlight stuff, or it just looks flat and lifeless. No 3D feeling to it even if you use shallow DoF. Yep a nice set of those old tungsten Fresnel units would sure add to the look that is for sure. 

But pretty hard to do all that stuff solo, especially Run n Gun, but we keep getting better, cheaper, lighter tools to try and get that "Thick Negative"a lot of us are looking for.

[Dogtown]

Those Jem Ball units are a work of art!  I like the adapter for the Joker 200. They still make the Jem Balls here in LA. I bought three Jem Balls last year. Come to think of it I also bought one of your old, well used Dedo 1x1 Led lights ( has your logo on it ) I Still use my Kino 4x4 and 2x2's a lot. I love my tungsten 150w Dedo lights. And I kept my old 400 and 200 Joker par's, for punch. I still burn my fingers once in a while on these hot lights?

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I think a lot of it comes back to what they called the Thick Negative when I was young, and I guess it is a Thick Digital File today. It takes bit rate, high bit rates to make that happen. 12, 14, even 16 bit files.  And I argue low ISO even if it can go high. And well it has to be exposed right or you have wasted your time. Sure more resolution doesn't hurt either. But I think it may at times look too good. 35mm film for photos really is not as much resolution as people think. Micheal at Luminous Landscape pegged it at around 6 to 7 mp. Basically a Canon 20D. Now I am not sure how it equates to movies resolution wise?

The little BMPCC proves higher bit rates really work. Best bang for the buck I think ever made.  I hope like heck this New PK4 continues the look it had, and has. It appears like it maybe a ton better in low light, but you still need lighting to set the mood, highlight stuff, or it just looks flat and lifeless. No 3D feeling to it even if you use shallow DoF. Yep a nice set of those old tungsten Fresnel units would sure add to the look that is for sure. 

But pretty hard to do all that stuff solo, especially Run n Gun, but we keep getting better, cheaper, lighter tools to try and get that "Thick Negative"a lot of us are looking for.

Should have said Bit Depth, not Rate. But they kind of go hand in hand.

[Shirozina]

On 7/26/2018 at 6:44 PM, Ed_David said:

Now we all shoot at 800 asa. actually, I have heard some younger people get upset if they can't shoot at 1600 asa.  Pretty amazing to me.

Since most modern cameras can do this easily, and that gives you enough natural light in most locations, you just come in and shoot.  The style these days is use what already exists, and augment the lighting, and use grip to subtract light.

Subtracting light.  Before ASA 800, when many of us were shooting at around 200 ASA, you would add light.

Now we show up, use a window light - maybe put one light outside of it, and then 4-7 pieces of gripwear to cut it. 

Toppers, cutters, siders, eggcrates.   

But a recent job I did for a liquor commercial, we were shooting with the digital bolex as a b camera.  The bolex is a beautiful organic image, with a ccd sensor for beautiful motion and the ability to use 16mm glass, which is beautiful and lightweight.  We lit for this camera's low native iso, and the A camera, the alexa, we set at 200 ASA as well. 

At 200 ASA, I was back to where I started 10 years ago, and it was thrilling again.  

Light didn't spill all over the place - it faded into the darkness, had lots of falloff - and everything was deliberate. We Could liGHT up spaces deep in the bar with red color, and push light into areas we wanted, and hide the rest.  It was easier to do, since there were less stands to place on the ground and less rigging to do.

Grip takes up a lot of space and stands.   Lights -  not as much.

And we ended up making the bar more interesting than what it was - we transformed it. 

(I'll post videos and stills once the spots are released.

It was putting on a different brain from an earlier era - cause we had to move a different way. 

And we painted with 1k tungsten lights in a jem ball again and got that tungsten warmth again.  That color of a tungsten fresnel - it has a golden warmth to it.  Coming back to it, it reminded me of how unmatched by LEDs which have more green and yellow in them than that pure lovely orange glow are these chinese balls.

To rediscover those old tungsten fresnel units, that was also important to me.  These old lights you can now get as every grip house throws them out, as the world has moved onto led lighting like skypanels, these old lights are a thing of beauty.

Why not just put an ND filter on your 800 iso camera to get that 'back in the day' look?

[IronFilm]

On 7/27/2018 at 5:44 AM, Ed_David said:

To rediscover those old tungsten fresnel units, that was also important to me.  These old lights you can now get as every grip house throws them out, as the world has moved onto led lighting like skypanels, these old lights are a thing of beauty.

I picked up a few weeks ago a Tungsten Fresnel 2K for only NZ$50!! (US$34)
Used it on one shoot a couple of weeks ago. 

[webrunner5]

Pretty good side by side test.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2017/03/13/are-the-new-breed-of-affordable-high-powered-led-fresnel-lights-up-to-the-task-we-test-the-rayzr-7-daylight-300-and-lupo-dayled-2000/

[buggz]

Well, I'm an old stills film guy, so I don't remember movie film speeds, but I do remember ASA25, and 50 for stills.

Actually, I bet I could find some ASA50 color film in the fridge bins, I know I have some 4x5 and 120, though those wouldn't be ASA25, nor 50.

[webrunner5]

Some film speeds from Wiki. Man I don't remember 8mm film being so low of a ASA. Yikes!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_speed

Looks like the 35 mm Film stock ranged between 50 ASA to 500 ASA for Movie film. Different ASA's for Daylight and Tungsten.

https://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/Products/Production/default.htm

 

[Ed_David]

On 8/1/2018 at 1:43 AM, Shirozina said:

Why not just put an ND filter on your 800 iso camera to get that 'back in the day' look?

Yup can do that as well!

On 8/1/2018 at 8:03 PM, webrunner5 said:

Some film speeds from Wiki. Man I don't remember 8mm film being so low of a ASA. Yikes!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_speed

Looks like the 35 mm Film stock ranged between 50 ASA to 500 ASA for Movie film. Different ASA's for Daylight and Tungsten.

https://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/Products/Production/default.htm

 

that's awesome - 6 ASA pretty much at the start of commercial films!!!  Man imagine using that indoors!  I think that's why the film industry moved from New York to Hollywood - you needed daylight pouring in to get any exposure.  And Arclights.  Man what a different time now.

[AaronChicago]

On 8/1/2018 at 5:26 AM, webrunner5 said:

Pretty good side by side test.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2017/03/13/are-the-new-breed-of-affordable-high-powered-led-fresnel-lights-up-to-the-task-we-test-the-rayzr-7-daylight-300-and-lupo-dayled-2000/

I love the Rayzr 7. I mostly use that with the Aputure 300d and 4 Quasar Science bulbs to light almost anything, with bleached muslin and ultra bounces.

[Sage]

What do you think of the Ikan Lyra LBX30?

Its meant to compete with something like a Skypanel, but at a fraction of the price

[IronFilm]

On 8/13/2018 at 1:22 AM, Ed_David said:

I think that's why the film industry moved from New York to Hollywood - you needed daylight pouring in to get any exposure.  And Arclights.  Man what a different time now.

They moved to escape Edison's patent lawyers. 

 

http://mentalfloss.com/article/51722/thomas-edison-drove-film-industry-california

 

https://www.wired.com/2004/03/lessig-2/