GH5 for Photography?

[mercer]

2 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

I've noticed that about Olympus as well. 

Can I make an observation? Hopefully this is received in the same spirit as I intend it.

I think I've only ever seen you post still images. That one with the birds is rad btw.

You've been talking a lot about and referencing stills. Especially obviously in this thread.

Is it possible that you really want a stills camera? Maybe you'll just love telling stories with still images. At least with this camera... obviously you have the 5D for video... which btw is decent for stills as well.

I'm not saying you should hang up your video shoes. I'm just wondering if there is a photographer inside of you dying to introduce himself to the world. 

Nothing but good spirit was taken from that comment. I post frame grabs because I don’t want to bore people with boring color grade test videos. So when I realized I could export frame grabs, I just started doing that instead of whole test videos and it saves rendering times.

I like stills on a complete fun/hobbyist level, I like video because I am a screenwriter first and foremost, so stills have no real impact on that pursuit. 

[mercer]

But to add, I think we’re seeing the beginning of a new movement where photography and video pursuits are becoming entangled.

I already see it so prevalently on IG and YT where people will do a photo shoot one week, then a short narrative film the next.

The jobs of writer, director, photographer and cinematographer are melding together into this “content creator” moniker... at least for internet distribution.

Instagram is becoming a mobile art gallery... YouTube is your local theatre and Vimeo Staff Pics is your Sundance.

The next Spielberg will be discovered on IG... but to do that one needs content.

You need to constantly create and upload. There’s not enough time in a day to solely do video.

Now I’m not naive, or delusional, enough to think I’ll be the next Spielberg, or even have a career from any of this. But I enjoy it and there are a lot worse things I could be doing with my time and money.

[Kisaha]

12 hours ago, mercer said:

But to add, I think we’re seeing the beginning of a new movement where photography and video pursuits are becoming entangled.

I already see it so prevalently on IG and YT where people will do a photo shoot one week, then a short narrative film the next.

The jobs of writer, director, photographer and cinematographer are melding together into this “content creator” moniker... at least for internet distribution.

Instagram is becoming a mobile art gallery... YouTube is your local theatre and Vimeo Staff Pics is your Sundance.

The next Spielberg will be discovered on IG... but to do that one needs content.

You need to constantly create and upload. There’s not enough time in a day to solely do video.

Now I’m not naive, or delusional, enough to think I’ll be the next Spielberg, or even have a career from any of this. But I enjoy it and there are a lot worse things I could be doing with my time and money.

Yes @mercer !

Even though, he won't be called "next Spielberg", and it won't matter to anyone.

I recently started taking wee little photo jobs and my NX cameras are just perfect for most of those. I have plenty of photographer friends that they are doing video now, so why not the oppossite? All in all I feel more comfortable with video (19 years of a career!) but I like doing some photography now and then.

Why don't you use your Canon for photos? I used a GH5 for photos in June, and the output from my NX1 was better by far. The guy that owns this GH5 rents 5DmkIII and IV (old 5DmkII owner) now for his photo jobs, completely disappointed by the performance of the GH5, and he is waiting for the new Canon mirrorless.

[mercer]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Yes @mercer !

Even though, he won't be called "next Spielberg", and it won't matter to anyone.

I recently started taking wee little photo jobs and my NX cameras are just perfect for most of those. I have plenty of photographer friends that they are doing video now, so why not the oppossite? All in all I feel more comfortable with video (19 years of a career!) but I like doing some photography now and then.

Why don't you use your Canon for photos? I used a GH5 for photos in June, and the output from my NX1 was better by far. The guy that owns this GH5 rents 5DmkIII and IV (old 5DmkII owner) now for his photo jobs, completely disappointed by the performance of the GH5, and he is waiting for the new Canon mirrorless.

I love my 5D3 for video, actually I’m obsessed with it... seriously it could probably get a restraining order against me. ? 

But for street photos and casual photos, I think I’d rather have something a little smaller and more discreet. And if I’m going to even bother getting a second camera that will do both video and stills, I’d like it to have something that I can’t already get from my 5D3... IBIS and 4K are pretty important, but I may settle for 4K and DPAF.

So, I’m hoping Canon will announce their FF mirrorless by Photokina or even an M5 Mark II with 4K could do I guess. I’d rather stay with Canon since I’m already invested in their lenses, I just doubt they’ll release a camera that has IBIS, 4K and DPAF.

But as a video camera, you really can’t deny that the GH5 is spec’d out. I’m just not sold on it as a stills camera yet. But I’ve already gotten some good reviews from fellow members, so we’ll see.

[Kisaha]

9 minutes ago, mercer said:

I love my 5D3 for video, actually I’m obsessed with it... seriously it could probably get a restraining order against me. ? 

But for street photos and casual photos, I think I’d rather have something a little smaller and more discreet. And if I’m going to even bother getting a second camera that will do both video and stills, I’d like it to have something that I can’t already get from my 5D3... IBIS and 4K are pretty important, but I may settle for 4K and DPAF.

So, I’m hoping Canon will announce their FF mirrorless by Photokina or even an M5 Mark II with 4K could do I guess. I’d rather stay with Canon since I’m already invested in their lenses, I just doubt they’ll release a camera that has IBIS, 4K and DPAF.

But as a video camera, you really can’t deny that the GH5 is spec’d out. I’m just not sold on it as a stills camera yet. But I’ve already gotten some good reviews from fellow members, so we’ll see.

I use the GH5 on many video jobs, especially with the Olympis 12-100. Just try it first for photo before you buy, I was rather disappointed.

An M5mkII could be ideal, APS-C is a great format.

My NX500 is my favorite carry around camera, even though the NX1 is surprisingly small for such a camera (check the size comparison between the NX1 and the GH5 and put there your 5D for good measure, the GH5 is extremely big and heavy for a m43 camera), and coupled with the extremely small and light NX pancakes, and still the NX500 form factor camera is unbeatable for the streets. Especially in brown, you are just another hip-tourist!

For IBIS, I do not know. Still not in my top 5 of camera features. I would take it for free but I wouldn't pay for it.

[mercer]

@Kisaha yeah I’ll have to do a size and weight comparison between the 5D3 and the GH5 because if there isn’t much of a difference, it could be a dealbreaker.

As you may know, I had the NX500 and really enjoyed my time with it... it has some of the most detailed and sharp video I’ve ever seen on a camera in that price bracket. And for a small camera, it has some of the best ergonomics of any camera I’ve used. I bought mine new and when Samsung got out of the camera business I made a hefty profit selling it.

I had IBIS on the GX85 and it was acceptable and then had it on the E-M5 Mark II and with a vintage Nikkor lens, the IBIS was tripod steady, like freakishly steady. So for me, with this camera, IBIS is definitely a near must have.

[mercer]

20 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think in support of that, if you look at the G9 flickr pool then you can see a big difference from what I imagine is a very similar camera to the GH5 but just in the hands of more predominantly still image creators.

The first page of the GH5 pool that I looked at was nothing to write home about.

Unless you were writing home to say that you weren't going to buy it.

Yeah, the first few pages of the G9 Flickr posts are a night and day difference with the GH5. So good point.

With that being said, I think I am concentrating too much on video specs because the E-M1 Mark II Flickr page blows away the G9... which is also impressive.

Out of curiosity, I looked at the D3400 and although you can tell that there are probably more beginners using that camera, the higher resolution and sensor size does seem to make a difference when in comparison with m4/3... but without some of the video specs that I am looking for.

If I were to buy today, I may go with the E-M1 Mark II based on Flickr page alone... plus I like a lot of videos I’ve seen from Olympus. And probably my second choice would be the G9... at a few hundred bucks cheaper than the GH5, it seems like a decent compromise between stills and video specs... even without the 10bit video.

But I must say, the X-H1 is still blowing in my ear and whispering sweet nothings about their lenses and color... I imagine one of their cinema zooms would be killer with IBIS... not that I can afford it. But when has that stopped me...

@ajay what lenses are you using with the G9?

[BTM_Pix]

20 minutes ago, mercer said:

But I must say, the X-H1 is still blowing in my ear and whispering sweet nothings about their lenses and color...

I think you might want to have a listen to what a used X-T20 has to say about having most of that fun for a fraction of the price.

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think you might want to have a listen to what a used X-T20 has to say about having most of that fun for a fraction of the price.

So so true, X-T20 must be the most desirable Fuji camera of its specific segment.

@mercer I know you had the NX500, I was referring of course to its form factor and ergonomics, not the camera per se.

H1 and GH5 are equal, or bigger than some full frame dSLRs.

Test the actual photo quality of m43 cameras YOURSELF.

[mercer]

50 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think you might want to have a listen to what a used X-T20 has to say about having most of that fun for a fraction of the price.

Hmm, at the going price of the X-T20/X-E3, maybe I can finagle a Fuji and an E-M1ii or G9... imagine evil grin slowly growing on my face...

Or maybe a Sigma Quattro SD and the 30mm Art lens kit (which is an obscenely low price kit, btw) and an Olly or G9... hmm... my head may have just imploded... but maybe I am a 3 camera shooter... one for video only (5D3 w/ ML Raw), one hybrid for video and stills (E-M1ii or G9) and one stills camera (Sigma Quattro SD) ???

[BTM_Pix]

I honestly don't think thats a bad way to go.

Do you want me to do an X-T20 with 35mm f1.4 versus Sigma Quattro SD with 30mm f1.4 showdown ?

[mercer]

27 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I honestly don't think thats a bad way to go.

Do you want me to do an X-T20 with 35mm f1.4 versus Sigma Quattro SD with 30mm f1.4 showdown ?

Of course I do, if you are so inclined... for some reason I think you’re dying to?

Btw, what program do you use to process Raw stills, and do you have any preferences based on which camera you used?

[BTM_Pix]

20 minutes ago, mercer said:

Of course I do, if you are so inclined... for some reason I think you’re dying to?

Btw, what program do you use to process Raw stills, and do you have any preferences based on which camera you used?

Haha...I'm just being an upstanding helpful member of the community.

Who thinks everyone should be shooting on a Foveon sensor

I use Aperture for sports work (which is primarily jpeg) as it is much faster for an editorial workflow and I've used it for years. This makes me a bit of an outlier as everyone else uses PhotoMechanic but I prefer the self contained aspect of Aperture. 

I use Aperture (standalone version) for RAWs because it plays better with DNGs off the Leica and Sigma and the inbuilt profiles for lens corrections are very useful and it also keeps up to date with new cameras better than Aperture which of course is a discontinued product. 

If I'm using the older Sigma cameras DP1-3M then I have to use their own software which is a bit quirky so I generally just use it to do basic stuff and turn them into TIFFs and put them in the other apps.

[mercer]

9 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Haha...I'm just being an upstanding helpful member of the community.

Who thinks everyone should be shooting on a Foveon sensor

I use Aperture for sports work (which is primarily jpeg) as it is much faster for an editorial workflow and I've used it for years. This makes me a bit of an outlier as everyone else uses PhotoMechanic but I prefer the self contained aspect of Aperture. 

I use Aperture (standalone version) for RAWs because it plays better with DNGs off the Leica and Sigma and the inbuilt profiles for lens corrections are very useful and it also keeps up to date with new cameras better than Aperture which of course is a discontinued product. 

If I'm using the older Sigma cameras DP1-3M then I have to use their own software which is a bit quirky so I generally just use it to do basic stuff and turn them into TIFFs and put them in the other apps.

Thanks, I really appreciate it. I am usually very impetuous with buying cameras but I want to take my time and make the right decision with this one.... I’ve already decided and talked myself out of 2 or 3 choices in as many days. So really any input you have as a stills shooter, is worth its weight in gold to me.

[newfoundmass]

PhotoJoseph on YouTube might be a good person to check out and talk to, as he also does pro work in both video and photography with the GH5. 

[BTM_Pix]

On 8/25/2018 at 9:19 PM, mercer said:

Of course I do, if you are so inclined... for some reason I think you’re dying to?

I don't know about dying to but it was nearly a case of dying from so the first image from my limited wandering about yesterday with these cameras was this....

For anyone wondering if the Sigma SD Quattro has an overheating warning icon in the viewfinder then I can confirm it does

It didn't stop it from working but it was getting uncomfortably warm to the touch (as was I) so strike one to the Fuji X-T20 there.

Anyway, due to not being totally willing to suffer from my Sigma ART, it was a much abridged wandering about a couple of streets so apologies for the less than inspiring content. I was mainly looking for things with strong colour and/or some degree of highlight and shadow content.

As discussed, the two cameras were the Fuji X-T20 with the Fuji 35mm f1.4 and the Sigma SD Quattro with the Sigma 30mm f1.4 ART and both shooting RAW. Most shots are in the f2.8 to f5.6 range to compensate for the massive amount of light to the absolutely no ND filters in my pocket ratio.

Some post cropping to compensate for the different fields of view as that 5mm makes a big difference on APS-C and also some tweaks in the name of harmonisation in the overall look as the Fuji tells a few fibs regarding exposure and Lightroom tends to be a bit aggressive with the contrast with the Sigma's DNG files. 

The shots on the left are from the X-T20 and the ones on the right from the SD Quattro

As I say, I was going for some harmonisation so they are pretty close but I would say that the SD Quattro just has that little bit more bite but there's not a massive amount in it.

One of the benefits of the SD Quattro resolution is being able to play a bit fast and loose with composition as you can take more liberties with cropping. This is particularly useful if you are doing street stuff as you can deliberately shoot wide enough to appear to be taking a shot of something else without alerting your real subject.

In this voyeurism by resolution example (which is an intentionally extreme one), the original wide shot is at the top followed by the shot that I was actually going for on first the X-T20 and then the SD Quattro.

Again, there is not a lot in it (which surprised me a little I have to say) and if anything the X-T20 edges it, particularly as the unwitting subject has a more interesting pose.

At this point, when you factor in the size, weight, cost (especially lenses), battery life and convenience, I can't see the SD Quattro being a better option for you in the context that you wanted it for, particularly if you have any ambitions of using it at above 400 ISO.

And of course the X-T20 absolutely smokes it when it comes to video !

Just for a bit more interest though in terms of the general everyday use that you were talking about and to throw a smaller sensor into the mix, I did take along another camera to offer some context. And yet another one which is there for a bit of sport  

In these comps, in quadrant 1 is the X-T20, quadrant 2 is the SD Quattro, quadrant 3 is the Panasonic LX100 (shooting RAW as well) and quadrant 4 is none of the above.

Whilst the LX100 isn't out performing the other cameras, it isn't being disgraced either and when you throw in the convenience factor with its in built zoom lens and a passable 4K video option if you need it and at a much reduced cost to the others, maybe it is the real winner here as the all round camera for the use you were describing as you can certainly get a tune out of it if you shoot RAW. In point of fact, whilst the mark ii has been a let down for most on here because of the video aspect not moving on, the additional photo performance it offers might make it a contender as they will be popping up used around the time you are looking to buy.

 

[webrunner5]

I surprised how poor the DR is on the Quattro has compered to the Fuji. Yeah better detail, but at a loss of No detail at all in the shadows LoL, what shadows!

And yeah the little LX100 is the true winner here overall, convenience and cost wise as you say. It sure is not shaming itself other than printing big.

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I surprised how poor the DR is on the Quattro has compered to the Fuji. Yeah better detail, but at a loss of No detail at all in the shadows LoL, what shadows!

To be fair to it, in the shot that its lost most (the left side flower beds of the piazza) its as much a product of some sloppiness on my part matching exposures as it was a bit of a pain in the arse doing an A/B with the Fuji sitting on a throne of lies when it comes to exposure the way it does.

If I was just doing an individual shot from the SD Quattro on its own merits then I'd have pushed the shadows harder.

[mercer]

@BTM_Pix thank you so much for this. I appreciate you taking the time. I looked at these on my phone first, so obviously not the best viewing experience for a comparison.

At first view, you did a great job matching the two, but how much of a difference are there in jpegs? I would assume the Fuji wins, but I’m curious what Sigma “color” looks like.

Second, I think I agree that Sigma just edges the X-T20 but only with a perceived organic or textured look to the images.

Third, I quite liked your uncropped frame... which camera was that from?

And finally, the LX100 does seem to hold its own, that leaf shutter helps I suppose?

But this mysterious 4th camera has piqued my interest and I am guessing it may be an FZ2500?

But it’s probably your phone and this whole thing was a lesson that the camera does not make the photographer...

With that being said, I suppose you’re right and the Sigma doesn’t make much sense. It looks like a fun camera though.

6 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

f I was just doing an individual shot from the SD Quattro on its own merits then I'd have pushed the shadows harder.

And I think this is what I am finding the most difficult to surmise... on its own merits... so far it seems like, from looking at a bunch of Flickr Groups, that camera manufacturers really know who their target customer base is.

For instance, as you previously noted, the GH5 photos are rather uninspiring and I’ve found one or two photos I like in 10 pages.... whereas the G9 has dozens of photos that look great... now I know the G9 is geared more to the photographer than videographer but I cannot imagine that their output should be so different to warrant the complete disparity between the two.

More research I suppose. I’m still in favor of a camera with IBIS, so luckily that keeps my options low. And if I go with a camera without it, I may as well go Canon since I already own EF lenses.

I’m probably going to lower my anticipated budget to under $1000 and eliminate some of my higher end options because I really need a couple lenses, audio equipment and lighting for my film and I can’t let my Summer GAS get in the way of that. 

[BTM_Pix]

1 minute ago, mercer said:

@BTM_Pix thank you so much for this. I appreciate you taking the time. I looked at these on my phone first, so obviously not the best viewing experience for a comparison.

At first view, you did a great job matching the two, but how much of a difference are there in jpegs? I would assume the Fuji wins, but I’m curious what Sigma “color” looks like.

Second, I think I agree that Sigma just edges the X-T20 but only with a perceived organic or textured look to the images.

Third, I quite liked your uncropped frame... which camera was that from?

And finally, the LX100 does seem to hold its own, that leaf shutter helps I suppose?

But this mysterious 4th camera has piqued my interest and I am guessing it may be an FZ2500?

But it’s probably your phone and this whole thing was a lesson that the camera does not make the photographer...

With that being said, I suppose you’re right and the Sigma doesn’t make much sense. It looks like a fun camera though.

No problem.

With regard to jpegs, the situation with the Sigma's is not as bad as people generally say it is but I'd definitely say you have to get it right in the camera as they don't stand for too much additional change. The Fuji's win not only because of the film simulation aspect but also because in my experience using them for work (where it is all jpeg) you can also push them a bit more.

The uncropped frame was from the SD Quattro.

The LX100 is actually an all round nice photo camera to use because of the aperture dial and the exposure compensation dial. I haven't ever used it with a flash for HSS but I probably should. I mentioned in the other thread about it that the Leica incarnation is actually viewed by a large number of their users as a genuine Leica due to its photo capabilities.

The 4th camera is actually the fixed 30mm lens Sigma DP2M which I threw in there as a comparison between the different Foveon cameras but you don't know how close it was to being an FZ2500 that got put in the bag instead !

What you often read people saying about the SD Quattro is that it is a camera that makes you think about your photographs a bit more. Depending on your point of view, those thoughts might well be "Can I be arsed carrying this round" and "Looks overcast I better get the tripod ready". Its not for everyone thats for sure.