GH5 for Photography?

[mercer]

19 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

No problem.

With regard to jpegs, the situation with the Sigma's is not as bad as people generally say it is but I'd definitely say you have to get it right in the camera as they don't stand for too much additional change. The Fuji's win not only because of the film simulation aspect but also because in my experience using them for work (where it is all jpeg) you can also push them a bit more.

The uncropped frame was from the SD Quattro.

The LX100 is actually an all round nice photo camera to use because of the aperture dial and the exposure compensation dial. I haven't ever used it with a flash for HSS but I probably should. I mentioned in the other thread about it that the Leica incarnation is actually viewed by a large number of their users as a genuine Leica due to its photo capabilities.

The 4th camera is actually the fixed 30mm lens Sigma DP2M which I threw in there as a comparison between the different Foveon cameras but you don't know how close it was to being an FZ2500 that got put in the bag instead !

What you often read people saying about the SD Quattro is that it is a camera that makes you think about your photographs a bit more. Depending on your point of view, those thoughts might well be "Can I be arsed carrying this round" and "Looks overcast I better get the tripod ready". Its not for everyone thats for sure.

I wish it was the FZ2500, as you know I have a not so secret admiration for that camera. It’s kinda big and clunky but it gets better video than it has any business getting. In shutter priority mode and that push button slow motion, it turns the camera into a point and shoot cinema camera. Throw a Ninja Star on there and you have 10bit 4:22 1080p.

But I digress, of all of my staring at Flickr over the weekend, I did like the images from the SD Quattro the most. It seems to handle shadows and midtones so wonderfully and in a lot of samples it seems to “favor” darker midtones, which is what I tend to do in post with ML Raw...

So this will be a tough one. I do like the idea of a stills only camera, so the Sigma is still in the running and maybe get another FZ2500 as a walkaround hybrid. I assume in a pinch, it will work for casual snapshots. 

[Dan Sherman]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

@BTM_Pix 

For instance, as you previously noted, the GH5 photos are rather uninspiring and I’ve found one or two photos I like in 10 pages.... whereas the G9 has dozens of photos that look great... now I know the G9 is geared more to the photographer than videographer but I cannot imagine that their output should be so different to warrant the complete disparity between the two.

The gear is not why you are seeing the difference, It's the shooters. A lot of GH5 owners are prominently video focused, while G9 Users are heavily stills focused. IMO, those that are good at one are not always very good at the other.

For example check out some of these shots from a person i know of from a different forum.
 

 

 

 

[webrunner5]

I think what is pretty telling to me on the shots where you have all four cameras the LX100, at lest to me, is the sharpest one of the four to read that writing on the bottom of that mailbox. That is pretty crazy when I think about it.

Wow this thread is moving faster than I can type LoL.?

[mercer]

@Dan Sherman yes, that was what I was trying to say with that comment. However, the G9 does have one or two photography features that could benefit a stills shooter but the GH5 has a plethora of video features and since the price difference is only incremental, the GH5 tends to make more sense.

Those stills look okay, I like the dog close up and the bird but I tend to like more surreal or abstract photography where there is light and shadow play.

With that being said, your point is taken and something to consider going forward.

3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I think what is pretty telling to me on the shots where you have all four cameras the LX100, at lest to me, is the sharpest one of the four to read that writing on the bottom of that mailbox. That is pretty crazy when I think about it.

Wow this thread is moving faster than I can type LoL.?

Yeah, I noticed that too, but as you know, sharpness is one of the last things on my list... I prefer mood and texture. Panny’s always feel a little sterile to me and their smaller sensor doesn’t help in a lot of the samples I’ve seen... with all things considered. 

[webrunner5]

I don't know why you just don't buy the  EF 40mm f2.8 and be done with it. That lens on your 5D mk III won't stand out anymore than a any normal camera, even a m4/3. That focal length is all a person needs for 90% of photography and damn near that for video. 44, 45mm is sort of the focal length our eyes see, and I have found if it appeals enough to me to shoot it why am I going to make it say a 20mm lens length? I don't see 20mm, now maybe field of view I do but I don't want to see people, trees as small as Piss Ants in shots I take LoL.

https://www.amazon.com/Canon-40mm-2-8-STM-Lens/dp/B00894YP00

[mercer]

2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I don't know why you just don't buy the  EF 40mm f2.8 and be done with it. That lens on your 5D mk III won't stand out anymore than a any normal camera, even a m4/3. That focal length is all a person needs for 90% of photography and damn near that for video. 44, 45mm is sort of the focal length our eyes see, and I have found if it appeals enough to me to shoot it why am I going to make it say a 20mm lens length? I don't see 20mm, now maybe field of view I do but I don't want to see people. trees small as Piss Ants in shots I take.

Well it’s not entirely about standing out more, it’s also about weight and overall handling size. If I was a pro stills shooter, sure I’d want a 5D or a D850 but for a casual stills/video hybrid, I’d rather have a smaller footprint that I can stuff in my glove box when I run into a store, or carry in a backpack with my iPad, a snack and other needs for a daily outing. With that being said, if I wasn’t going to buy another 35mm f/2, I’d seriously consider that 40mm. 

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, Dan Sherman said:

The gear is not why you are seeing the difference, It's the shooters. A lot of GH5 owners are prominently video focused, while G9 Users are heavily stills focused. IMO, those that are good at one are not always very good at the other.

 

That was precisely the point I was making though ?

[BTM_Pix]

53 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I think what is pretty telling to me on the shots where you have all four cameras the LX100, at lest to me, is the sharpest one of the four to read that writing on the bottom of that mailbox. That is pretty crazy when I think about it.

Same f stop on a smaller sensor than the others though so a slightly more generous DOF.

[webrunner5]

23 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Same f stop on a smaller sensor than the others though so a slightly more generous DOF.

And one reason I think more people will have better results with this new BM PK4 than buying a FF camera that shoots great video. AF, even manual focus is damn hard to do right on a photo, let alone on a 5 minute short or longer. There IS a reason they have Focus Pullers, and do 20 takes LoL.

[BTM_Pix]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

And I think this is what I am finding the most difficult to surmise... on its own merits... so far it seems like, from looking at a bunch of Flickr Groups, that camera manufacturers really know who their target customer base is.

For instance, as you previously noted, the GH5 photos are rather uninspiring and I’ve found one or two photos I like in 10 pages.... whereas the G9 has dozens of photos that look great... now I know the G9 is geared more to the photographer than videographer but I cannot imagine that their output should be so different to warrant the complete disparity between the two.

It can be frustrating with Flickr because a lot of it also depends on where in the life cycle of the camera you look. I tend to go back to about a quarter of the way from the start point as people will usually have found their feet with it by then and you start to get the most representative images.

Its also quite situational though as well as to how interesting the content is as I was in a far more interesting location last Sunday than I was this Sunday, for example, so the images reflect that.

Once you've made your format choice these days, I really do think you can get as near as dammit the same look out of most cameras and its the handling and the lenses that are the difference.

If you don't want to pick up the camera and use it then whats the point ?

Or if you've spent so much on upgrading to a marginal gain for the sensor that you can only afford to put inferior lenses on it then, again, whats the point?

Its actually an interesting exercise taking 4 completely different cameras out in 42 degree temperatures and juggling the around trying to take the same photographs as it really hones the mind about which ones do and don't get in the way and I heartily recommend it.

You'll end up being like this fella with them after about 20 minutes !

 

[mercer]

Yeah, the photographer takes the photo, I get that but there still seems to be something unique in every camera that beginners can benefit from if they choose the right camera.

For instance, for shits and giggles, I had a glance at the M50 Flickr Group page and the first few pages had way better photos than the first few pages of the GH5 page... like not even close.

Obviously I know nothing about the photographers who took any of the photos, nor know anything of their skill or artistic level BUT the M50 is one of the most entry level cameras you can buy, so one must assume, they were taken by a more beginner photographer and yes I know, I know... a lot of assumptions but when you go page by page by page and see the same thing, a pattern starts to arise.

BUT, with that being said, I am not giving up hope on the GH5, I think I just need to do more research and maybe rent one in a few months... because as long as I like the Raw files, there is no arguing about the video specs and how good it could do as a hybrid. But then again, it really isn’t much smaller than my 5D, so it could be out of the running based on that alone.

Anyway, thanks for all the help, too many options, too many specs and no camera that has everything. 

[Dan Sherman]

42 minutes ago, mercer said:

For instance, for shits and giggles, I had a glance at the M50 Flickr Group page and the first few pages had way better photos than the first few pages of the GH5 page... like not even close.

The m50 has a big advantage in this department, because their are a lot more of them out in the world and thus likely to fall into the hands of someone who truly knows how to use them. I can walk into my local Best Buy and buy an M50, I'd have to drive a couple hours to buy a GH5 in person.

I'd also say you have to have a decent amount of experience to really get every last drop out of an MFT camera. They can be customized and tweaked in so many way that they overwhelm some people. Playing with the picture profiles and highlight and shadow curves can yield amazing results, but also some horrendous crap.

Just the other week a new G9 owner was complaining in another forum that everything was to sharp, saturated, and contrasty. After a few rounds of inquires the group determined he was using the Vivid photo style. He then became petulant when we told him you cant just use any style, and the thread went to hell fast.




for reference here are some shots I have at hand that I took with my G7 which has a lesser sensor than my GH5. Make sure to open them in a new window/tab to see the full res version.

 

[mercer]

25 minutes ago, Dan Sherman said:

The m50 has a big advantage in this department, because their are a lot more of them out in the world and thus likely to fall into the hands of someone who truly knows how to use them. I can walk into my local Best Buy and buy an M50, I'd have to drive a couple hours to buy a GH5 in person.

I'd also say you have to have a decent amount of experience to really get every last drop out of an MFT camera. They can be customized and tweaked in so many way that they overwhelm some people. Playing with the picture profiles and highlight and shadow curves can yield amazing results, but also some horrendous crap.

Just the other week a new G9 owner was complaining in another forum that everything was to sharp, saturated, and contrasty. After a few rounds of inquires the group determined he was using the Vivid photo style. He then became petulant when we told him you cant just use any style, and the thread went to hell fast.




for reference here are some shots I have at hand that I took with my G7 which has a lesser sensor than my GH5. Make sure to open them in a new window/tab to see the full res version.

 

Yes, there are more M series cameras floating around but the M50 was only released less than 6 months ago... but I get your point.

Nice samples BTW, I like the B&W in particular. Do you remember the lens you used? Maybe I can get by with a G85 as a hybrid then... then I’ll have 4K and IBIS. And if I take a liking to stills, I could always add a Sigma SD Quattro into the fold down the line. 

[webrunner5]

28 minutes ago, mercer said:

Yes, there are more M series cameras floating around but the M50 was only released less than 6 months ago... but I get your point.

Nice samples BTW, I like the B&W in particular. Do you remember the lens you used? Maybe I can get by with a G85 as a hybrid then... then I’ll have 4K and IBIS. And if I take a liking to stills, I could always add a Sigma SD Quattro into the fold down the line. 

Get the Sigma SD H Quattro. Go big or stay home!

[mercer]

18 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Get the Sigma SD H Quattro. Go big or stay home!

Well, the truth of it is, I am most interested in the Panny’s for their IBIS, but the smart play would be the Sigma for stills and my 5D3 for video... Or some kind of cheap and small Canon so I can practice processing Raw stills to benefit both ML Raw video and photography. And then see what the FF Canon mirrorless offers as a hybrid sometime down the line.

But yeah the Sigma SD Quattro has some serious IQ. Have you looked at the Flickr page... holy cow... the colors and textures and shadows... why oh why won’t Sigma figure out a way to have video on one of their cameras... they should hire A1ex from Magic Lantern to figure out Raw Video with the Foveon sensor.

[buggz]

I have many "artsy" anamorphic closeup stills I have taken with my GH5.

I have other non anamorphic stills too.   I don't post photos as I used to do.  People WILL steal them.  Google search has found them on anime sites, tattoo sites, one in a catalog even!

I will have to look in my history files, but I know I have many from my ol' GH4 also.

Oh, I have yet, and probably will never, purchased any m43 glass.  I have way too many options available as is.

Shrug, I don't really understand all of this, no, I haven't read every post.  Is it about sensor size, resolution?  As I have MANY excellent photos from my old Kodak SLR/C.

Uhm, even from my 6x17 pinhole camera, and ALL the other film body systems I STILL have.  I don't sell, I accumulate...

[mercer]

34 minutes ago, buggz said:

Shrug, I don't really understand all of this, no, I haven't read every post.  Is it about sensor size, resolution?  As I have MANY excellent photos from my old Kodak SLR/C

Well, for me as a beginner stills shooter, I’m looking for a hybrid camera that gives me the best bang for my buck for stills and video.

I’m sure to accomplished photographers, this conversation may seem silly or pointless, but I want to spend my money wisely and not jump into a camera I’ll regret a month later because some feature or spec is more limiting than what it may have been with a different camera.

[buggz]

I see, If you want a digital stills cam, I would recommend the Fuji X-T3.

I love my X-T2, and the occasional video from it is nice too.

[mercer]

9 minutes ago, buggz said:

I see, If you want a digital stills cam, I would recommend the Fuji X-T3.

I love my X-T2, and the occasional video from it is nice too.

Yeah, Fuji is on the top of my list, but I am leaning towards an X-H1. I know the IBIS is supposedly questionable but I love the photos and video I’ve seen from it so far. 

[buggz]

Go for it!

Though, with Fuji, they update often, and the prices drop pretty significantly.

Shrug, go for it!  You only live once!