Canon 1D C vs 5D Mark III Raw (and C300 / GH2 resolution comparison)

[Andrew Reid]

This test was prepared jointly in cooperation with Rudi at Slashcam - here's his take on it (in German / in English)

In the battle of the 1080p cameras, the game has changed. Here's how the 5D Mark III in raw recording mode compares to the best 1080p output from the Canon C300 and 1D C.

[url=http://www.eoshd.com/content/10475/canon-1d-c-vs-5d-mark-iii-raw-and-c300-gh2-resolution-comparison]Read the full article here[/url]

[JHines]

Thanks for doing these tests! Awesome to hear our mushy 5D3 image now has the ability to shoot a more detailed and vibrant image than with the stock compression. Even more awesome to know it compares closely with the Cinema line. 

 

Some of your shots from the 5D3 are still showing some of the fixed vertical patten noise. This is my biggest concern after shooting raw with my 5D3. Having to push the luminance sliders past 50 (up to 75 for some shots) is definitely making the image more muddy. Sharpening helps bring back some detail but it's a shame so much noise-removal is necessary to get a clean image with no vertical lines. Maybe this will be worked out eventually? You've mentioned you like to shoot a few notches under-exposed to retain better highlight detail but it seems more people are reccomending the opposite, over-exposing then bringing down the highlights, in order to help with the vertical pattern issue. I'll have to do some more comparisons to see if this verifies but it's typically the way I shoot photos with my 5D3.

[andy lee]

very interesting article , to see the resolution charts comparing cameras

Im gonna stick with GH2 and then G6 when it comes out - maybe in a months time some of these ML issues will get resolved

 

there is an interesting article here on the MKii with RAW- he seems to have alot of moire have a look

http://crewofone.com/2013/canon-5d2-raw-vs-h264-in-real-world-production/

[Brekkie]

Looks amazing! It would be great to see a focused test on dynamic range between raw mark III and 1dc, just to see what the Canon log is really all about.

[Steve Kahn]

Andrew,

 

I'm not sure I completely understand 1:1 crop.  Does that mean we only use the center of the censor?  What are the downsides?  Will this become a ML feature?

[xxbluejay21]

Great news! I sometimes wish there was a team like ML for Nikon, because imagine getting the RAW DR/tonality/IQ of the D800 on video. Now THAT would be incredible.

[peederj]

Of all the articles where you absolutely needed downloadable uncropped straight-from-camera files, this was the one.

 

We are given no even vague idea what those thumbnails were created from.

 

BTW the $5,500 C100 along with a $700 Ninja 2 uses the same sensor and a better codec than the C300.

[odie]

Which hack was used for the Gh2?

thanks 

[Neil Hartop]

Hey Andrew,

You talked alot about up scaling the 5D footage. Do you believe we won't see a 2.5k raw output for the 5D MK III? You think we might of hit a bit of a ceiling on the 1080p raw?

I know the main restriction seems to be CF card speeds. Anyone tested prospec cards ? They are advertised as 1010x

[userage]

Imagine RAW on the the GH2 ;)

[haarec]

Good! Could you please attach other 1:1 resolution crops as you did 5D Mark III raw crop? How about GH2 settings?

[Richard Collins]

Of all the articles where you absolutely needed downloadable uncropped straight-from-camera files, this was the one.

 

We are given no even vague idea what those thumbnails were created from.

 

BTW the $5,500 C100 along with a $700 Ninja 2 uses the same sensor and a better codec than the C300.

 

Have to agree, this is what I shoot with and it's more than enough for me for most of my work! I am incredibly excited about this hack coming to the 7D though! I wouldn't be using raw for 90% of what I'm paid to shoot, but for music videos and personal projects, raw would be great.

 

If raw doesn't come to the 7D within the next few months, I'd be tempted to sell it for a GH2...

[kedbear]

On the 1DC vs MKIII shot out of the double doors with the car and house in the background, the 5D has a harshness to the edges, whereas the 1DC has all the detail but the edges are really smooth. Was sharpness added to the MKIII files at any point?

[Hugo]

Thanks for the test!

 

I spotted a typo

"You have to bear this in mind and how it effects your lenses"

[peederj]

Have to agree, this is what I shoot with and it's more than enough for me for most of my work! I am incredibly excited about this hack coming to the 7D though! I wouldn't be using raw for 90% of what I'm paid to shoot, but for music videos and personal projects, raw would be great.

 

If raw doesn't come to the 7D within the next few months, I'd be tempted to sell it for a GH2...

 

Again I can't imagine any appeal to having to work with a completely different mount and camera system. If you have two Canons already just stick with Canon. They are the leader for a good reason, and glass is a major Canon strength.

 

BTW, the internal ND's on the C100 just beat out Formatt and Schneider 4x5.65's in a shootout:

http://www.ryanewalters.com/Blog/blog.php?id=6201317295579746489

 

Saves you even more dough (not to mention the also world-class built-in IR filter that also seals the sensor area from dust), and no flattening polarization effect or color bias from a Vari-ND.

 

Really given we have two excellent indie-affordable options in the C100/Ninja2 (best lowlight) and FS700/Speedbooster (overcrank) it's heroic but puzzling of you guys to stick with DSLRs. The RAW hack is definitely interesting to make use of the 5D3 as a super-B cam instead of just stills. But even so kitting it out is more expensive than the C100 option if you are only interested in motion, and not as great an image as charts reveal.

[PlatinumHDSC]

I got to disagree here, sorry. Particularly on the comparison of the 1DC to the MKIII. We have both and use them extensively.

 

The 5DMKIII's sensor was measured by DXOMark at 11.7 stops total. The 1DC gets around 12.5 in Canon Log at ISO400. It's not possible that the new 5DMKIII RAW has more dynamic range than the sensor is capable of seeing. I suggest you get a dynamic range chart before posting that sort of claim. :S

 

In reality, the difference in clarity is actually far greater than your crops show. As we punch in to 1.3x we are actually fighting a losing battle against the resolving ability of the glass. if anything, it should get relatively softer since the glass has been optimised to resolve detail at full frame. Apply sharpening to the LOG, as you have to, and those tests show how poor upressing is as a solution. 

 

Sorry guys, not a 1DC fan boy upset about 5DMKIII RAW nipping at the 1DC's heels - I love the fact we now have a viable B cam for the 1DC on 1080P deliveries, but i've seen both first hand and you just cannot compare the 4K to the 1080P - it's not a fair comparison.

The 5DMKIII RAW is great - but we're still rolling with the 1DC in Log simply for the ease of the post process in a high volume environment.

 

It's nice to want to believe that the 5DMKIII is almost a 4K beater. . .but it just aint the truth. . .yet! :) Still hoping the Magic Lantern guys bust it open even further and despite Canon's pithy threats, turn their attentions to the 1DC to see what they can do with some real horsepower. Fingers crossed.

[jasonmillard81]

Interesting...the GH2 is very close to the 5D raw in these tests and it doesn't need all this post processing and storage power.  I understand the gravity of ML and their work, especially if you're an owner of a 5D or have a lot of Canon glass.  However, for us on the fence between GH3 and 5D3 what is the allure of Raw?  Considering it is so intensive of a workflow process it would only be used for special shots, and the majority of footage would be h.264, wouldn't the no brainer be to upgrade to a gh3?

[Alex Mand]

Interesting...the GH2 is very close to the 5D raw in these tests and it doesn't need all this post processing and storage power.  I understand the gravity of ML and their work, especially if you're an owner of a 5D or have a lot of Canon glass.  However, for us on the fence between GH3 and 5D3 what is the allure of Raw?  Considering it is so intensive of a workflow process it would only be used for special shots, and the majority of footage would be h.264, wouldn't the no brainer be to upgrade to a gh3?

 

Well, raw cameras like RED are used on daily shows as now the BMCC camera.RAW is intensive, yes. It's not for those who don't want to grade footage, but it goes beyond that. imagine having more, really more DR, using power masks and Keys to isolate or bring back blown highlights and really recorver the sunny sky... You can't do that properly even with a a C300 if not careful.

 

GH3 can't come close to a RAW camera...

[blackrat]

Thanks for doing these tests! Awesome to hear our mushy 5D3 image now has the ability to shoot a more detailed and vibrant image than with the stock compression. Even more awesome to know it compares closely with the Cinema line. 

 

Some of your shots from the 5D3 are still showing some of the fixed vertical patten noise. This is my biggest concern after shooting raw with my 5D3. Having to push the luminance sliders past 50 (up to 75 for some shots) is definitely making the image more muddy. Sharpening helps bring back some detail but it's a shame so much noise-removal is necessary to get a clean image with no vertical lines. Maybe this will be worked out eventually? You've mentioned you like to shoot a few notches under-exposed to retain better highlight detail but it seems more people are reccomending the opposite, over-exposing then bringing down the highlights, in order to help with the vertical pattern issue. I'll have to do some more comparisons to see if this verifies but it's typically the way I shoot photos with my 5D3.

You don't want to try to remove vertical banding with standard spatial NR! As you say that destroys all regular detail to only just remove some fixed pattern banding. You need to use special banding-tuned NR.

[blackrat]

Great news! I sometimes wish there was a team like ML for Nikon, because imagine getting the RAW DR/tonality/IQ of the D800 on video. Now THAT would be incredible.

Not possible for a number of reasons including that the Nikon LV feed is aliased and choppy.