DeMarcus Davis Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 On 3/19/2019 at 1:59 PM, Mokara said: ...That is not correct. DSLR tracking is inherently limited by hardware while MILC tracking is limited only by computing power. It is inevitable that MILCs will overtake DSLRs in this respect. The latest iterations of Sony firmware are apparently already there or are pretty damned close. We are now at the trip point when photography moves rapidly to MILC systems. My prediction a few years ago was that this would happen around 2019 based on my perception of how technology was developing, and it somewhat satisfying that it is actually playing out that way . Especially going back to forums like Canon Rumors and the folk there who poo pooed that idea. Turns out they were not as astute as they thought Of ALL the photogs I share the field with, I have only seen TWO (firsthand) use mirrorless cameras for NFL in-game shooting. One as I previously mentioned) used a Sony ( and sinced switched to a Canon system out of frustration) and another used what looked like a battery gripped Fujifilm X-T2. Mirrorless MAY become more mainstream in outdoor sporting events, but that is a more wait-and-see than an eventuality. Simply put, pro DSLR camera auto focus tracking is superior to ANYTHING a mirrorless body has put out at this point. It's just a hard fact. I REALLY LIKE my Nikon Z6. It's GREAT for portraiture, landscape, travel photography and is mobile and light (with it's native lenses.) However, I cannot endorse or promote ANY mirrorless for NFL/fast action sports. Geoff CB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMarcus Davis Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 On 3/19/2019 at 12:01 PM, webrunner5 said: Wolfcrow Z6 review. Seems to like it, but says you NEED to have an external recorder to use it for serious video work. https://wolfcrow.com/nikon-z6-real-world-review-for-cinematography/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weeklynewsletter&utm_content=text I watched that video and he has some valid concerns and solid praising. Having said that, he is both right and wrong. He's correct in that to get the very best out of this camera, you need to utilize an external monitor to unleash the 10-bit 422 Apple ProRes. Then again, he's a cinematographer and for that line of work, he NEEDS that 10-bit 422 color space for proper color grading. However, he's also wrong, as for the average user, vlogger, or youtube content creator; an 8-bit standard color profile straight out of body image is MORE than enough. Especially for those who need to crank out videos fast. Odds are, if one is a serious hybrid shooter, you likely already own an external monitor. If for nothing else, my eyes strain looking at the back panel LCD. Using a 5" or larger monitor makes it easier on the eyes and allows for MORE video tools; better focus peaking, better zebras, better waveforms, and offers scopes, 1:1 and 2:1 zooming tools (while recording), offer multiple aspect ratio framing, viewing MULTIPLE audio channels simultaneously, and allows you to add external audio and ultimately bypass the camera's preamps (which often can be far less than clean.) Castorp, webrunner5 and IronFilm 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 He won't even review a camera unless it has 4.2.2 in it. Yeah he does more serious work so that is required for it. He is pretty honest and doesn't feel bad about knocking missing features.There really is no reason not to have all that stuff in it in this day and age. It is mostly software based. It is not like it is a 600 dollar camera. And it is their video based model for heaven sake's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 It isn't just about 10-bit 4:2:2, you need an external recorder to get any kind of log period with the Z's. As he points out with no internal rec709 or specific gamma profiles it's not really possible to paint in camera either. The other caveats he brings up are also quite jarring.. no metering for video?! aliasing/moire in N-log. Crop when shooting 10-bit..etc webrunner5 and TomPhoto23 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Django said: It isn't just about 10-bit 4:2:2, you need an external recorder to get any kind of log period with the Z's. As he points out with no internal rec709 or specific gamma profiles it's not really possible to paint in camera either. The other caveats he brings up are also quite jarring.. no metering for video?! aliasing/moire in N-log. Crop when shooting 10-bit..etc What about uploading a custom log profile? Can you shoot 10bit in other color profiles I wonder or only Nlog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Looks like you can shoot 10 bit in the flat profile, which means you can probably shoot with Andrew's custom log profile. Seems like a good work around to avoid the AF, moire, and crop issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 This is his written summary of the Z6. Looks like it will have a crop in 10 bit no matter what you do? https://wolfcrow.com/important-quirks-and-features-of-the-nikon-z6-for-cinematography/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 16 hours ago, DeMarcus Davis said: Of ALL the photogs I share the field with, I have only seen TWO (firsthand) use mirrorless cameras for NFL in-game shooting. One as I previously mentioned) used a Sony ( and sinced switched to a Canon system out of frustration) and another used what looked like a battery gripped Fujifilm X-T2. Mirrorless MAY become more mainstream in outdoor sporting events, but that is a more wait-and-see than an eventuality. Simply put, pro DSLR camera auto focus tracking is superior to ANYTHING a mirrorless body has put out at this point. It's just a hard fact. I REALLY LIKE my Nikon Z6. It's GREAT for portraiture, landscape, travel photography and is mobile and light (with it's native lenses.) However, I cannot endorse or promote ANY mirrorless for NFL/fast action sports. That will change. A lot of what you see now are systems people currently have. No reason for them to throw that stuff away just because. There is an inertia to change, especially in professional spheres where familiarity with current equipment and systems far outweighs other considerations. For example, old main frames continued to be used in corporate environments long after superior alternatives were available. It was simply too disruptive to upgrade, consequently they carried on using the old obsolete technology, often for very long periods of time. So what you see on the side of a sports field is irrelevant to the performance argument. There is also an element of Pavlovian response involved, where the people who use DSLRs for this stuff generally base their opinion of mirrorless performance on much older systems rather than the latest state of the art gear. There choices become a self fulfilling prophecy based on subjective rather than objective considerations as a result. 15 hours ago, webrunner5 said: He won't even review a camera unless it has 4.2.2 in it. Yeah he does more serious work so that is required for it. He is pretty honest and doesn't feel bad about knocking missing features.There really is no reason not to have all that stuff in it in this day and age. It is mostly software based. It is not like it is a 600 dollar camera. And it is their video based model for heaven sake's. It is also a consumer camera, not a professional camera. It should be evaluated as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 10% crop makes it 1.1 crop I believe. Pretty much a non issue IMHO. I'd still probably go with the S1 at least for professional work. $700 more is worth it to get internal 4k 60p and 10 bit recording. If you have Nikon glass its still kind of a no brainer though. webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I find to me, that most of the Z6, Z7 footage I have seen come off as Way to dark, too much Contrast and a lot of crushed Blacks. It is just not pretty like Canon footage looks like. Canon has a softer look to it, more Pastel. The Nikon stuff is Gothic looking and is Far from realistic. I am sure you can change it in Post but. I am just not a fan of it at all... YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liork Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Indeed, the blacks in this sample looks crashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted April 16, 2019 Author Administrators Share Posted April 16, 2019 On 3/19/2019 at 7:01 PM, webrunner5 said: Wolfcrow Z6 review. Seems to like it, but says you NEED to have an external recorder to use it for serious video work. https://wolfcrow.com/nikon-z6-real-world-review-for-cinematography/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weeklynewsletter&utm_content=text Why does he say you need an external recorder? It's not worse than any other mirrorless camera for monitoring, in fact the screen is better than most and the EVF is too. 8 minutes ago, liork said: Indeed, the blacks in this sample looks crashed. Should have shot Z-LOG then liork 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaZa Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 But we really need some metering/exposure in video mode. In the main display with all other functions and also a clean display option. And why we can't have zebras and peaking at the same time? There's some annoying things that could be easily fixed by firmware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said: Why does he say you need an external recorder? It's not worse than any other mirrorless camera for monitoring, in fact the screen is better than most and the EVF is too. metering/exposure in video mode. You are shooting blind without a External monitor. Crazy stuff. Plus he is big on only 4.2.2 or better. 4.2.0 introduces a lot of Chroma noise, and artifacts. And not Broadcast standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexTrinder96 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 From his review... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castorp Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 "A very short, quickly shot video on one of the coolest guys I know. Brooklyn based photog Mike Grippi. Shot with the Nikon Z6 Filmmaker's Kit, on a Z6 camera, recording into the Atomos Ninja V, which is a tremendous assist in making a film quickly while traveling light. This was shot in a single day, and recorded in ProRes RAW directly to the Atomos. Many thanks to Levi Arnold, our editor, who did a great job giving the piece a cool look. Hit the blog for more details! " First footage I've seen with the yet to be released Prores Raw update. Great looking video I think! Geoff_L and ade towell 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 It still has that Dark, crushed Blacks look to it. WTF. Depressing shit. It is like B&W that has been colored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castorp Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 hour ago, webrunner5 said: It still has that Dark, crushed Blacks look to it. WTF. Depressing shit. It is like B&W that has been colored. That’s a grading decision. I have a Z 6 and it certainly does not have crushed blacks. If anything it shows that youtubers don’t change the picture profile at all. Default contrast and sharpening in standard profile doesn’t look very nice, too contrast and sharpened. This was shot in Prores Raw so we’re looking at a graded image. I thought it was pretty nice to see a cool grade. I’m getting tired of everything looking like it’s shot at golden hour in July even though it’s shot in the north in November. If you shoot in flat or neutral picture profile the blacks aren’t crushed. If you dial down contrast and sharpening in the standard profile it gives a very nice image straight away. It’s a wonderful image in Nikon flat. Like the D750 but better. PannySVHS, Geoff_L, IronFilm and 3 others 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Every bit of footage I have seen from it all looks like that. You must be the only one than can grade I guess. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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