Nikon Z6 features 4K N-LOG, 10bit HDMI output and 120fps 1080p

[hansel]

I am in the market for a 5'ish monitor. In foresight should I go with Atomos rather than BM video assist which is probably due to an update? 

From what I have seen so far the z6 ticks all my boxes for the end of time. Not sure about their lens strategy though. Hopefully adapted F lenses will video af as nice. Can't wait to fondle it abit....

[jonpais]

I would wait for the BM Video Assist update.

[webrunner5]

Well Atomos Seems to be the Only one that can do N Log. So it seems like a no brainer on the new Ninja V. But big difference if you are Just looking for a Monitor, versus a Recorder price wise.

[hansel]

5 minutes ago, MdB said:

Sony at least had 5 lenses at lunch and the 16-35mm f/4 very shortly after. That included a 70-200/4 as well as two standard zooms plus the 35 and 55. But people absolutely sulked constantly about the lens lineup. You would think Nikon would have learned from Sony’s mistakes, I mean that’s the whole point of hanging back right? 

You are right unless all the F lenses also work flawlessly. If that is the case and you might be already a Nikon shooter you have arguably one of the best lens lineup at your disposal...

[jonpais]

2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well Atomos Seems to be the Only one that can do N Log. So it seems like a no brainer on the new Ninja V. But big difference if you are Just looking for a Monitor, versus a Recorder price wise.

Either way your money’s going to an occidental country. ?

[BTM_Pix]

3 minutes ago, MdB said:

Sony at least had 5 lenses at lunch and the 16-35mm f/4 very shortly after. That included a 70-200/4 as well as two standard zooms plus the 35 and 55. But people absolutely sulked constantly about the lens lineup. You would think Nikon would have learned from Sony’s mistakes, I mean that’s the whole point of hanging back right? 

I think in Nikon's case they needed to show the same degree of commitment to the new mount that they are expecting of people adopting it.

It doesn't send that sort of message at all.

I'd go as far as to say that if Canon's mirrorless retains the EF mount so can offer a genuine swap out replacement for their DSLR's then Nikon will have a big problem.

 

[MdB]

5 minutes ago, hansel said:

I am in the market for a 5'ish monitor. In foresight should I go with Atomos rather than BM video assist which is probably due to an update? 

I have both, they each have advantages. Probably go with the Ninja V though. 

3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well Atomos Seems to be the Only one that can do N Log. So it seems like a no brainer on the new Ninja V.

Anything that can record a HDMI feed can 'do' N-Log. 

3 minutes ago, hansel said:

You are right unless all the F lenses also work flawlessly. If that is the case and you might be already a Nikon shooter you have arguably one of the best lens lineup at your disposal...

Flawlessly I would highly doubt. Well enough for most users - probably. However I would argue that most people seem to dislike adapting lenses or the idea of adapting them. That has certainly been the feedback around Sonys and their ability to adapt lenses. The native line is certainly lacking. 

[webrunner5]

I don't think too many of the older lenses are going to be able to focus as fast as all these new lenses can from any of the top 4. Son'y new toplenses are almost instantaneous, and I would imagine these new Z lenses are also. That helps a lot for face and eye focus.

5 minutes ago, MdB said:

I have both, they each have advantages. Probably go with the Ninja V though. 

Anything that can record a HDMI feed can 'do' N-Log. 

 

From Atomos website. Sure not necessary to have the Ninja V. but would make life easier with the new Z cameras..

"When the Z6 & Z7 are connected, the Ninja V can automatically detect and be set up to record the new Nikon N-Log gamma signal for recording with specific presets designed for the cameras. The image can also be monitored in REC. 709".

[hansel]

13 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well Atomos Seems to be the Only one that can do N Log. So it seems like a no brainer on the new Ninja V. But big difference if you are Just looking for a Monitor, versus a Recorder price wise.

May as well get a recorder to fool around with nlog.

[webrunner5]

2 minutes ago, hansel said:

May as well get a recorder to fool around with nlog.

Yeah the new Ninja V sounds like a heck of a recorder for not too much money if you don't need SDI ports.

[BTM_Pix]

12 minutes ago, hansel said:

You are right unless all the F lenses also work flawlessly. If that is the case and you might be already a Nikon shooter you have arguably one of the best lens lineup at your disposal...

There are some unsettling noises made by the 70-200mm f2.8 when it is on the adapter in the fella with the big hair's video about the launch.

The thing is that Nikon have both sides of the puzzle with this adapter so it may get better as they tweak it for individual lenses but that lens is one of their holy trinity so it doesn't bode well for it being flawless just yet.

Time will tell though I suppose.

[MdB]

2 hours ago, Django said:

Not sure what point you're trying to make.. Nikon is being extremely competitive in pricing compared to Sony.. considering you're getting pro weather sealed bodies, 10-bit 4:2:2 out etc..

And in the Sony you're getting dual card slots, internal S-Log without the need for external recorders, powerfully advanced custom picture profiles, high res capture, much better battery life, a much greater range of (and including professional) native lenses...

I mean the last two of those things on the list is what you Nikon fanboys claimed have been the advantage of Nikon since Sony mirrorless started. Are they suddenly not important any more because they are Nikon 'flaws' rather than Sony ones? 

2 hours ago, Django said:

..in that case so are the Sony's:

35mm F2.8 is $800

35mm F1.4 is $1,600

50mm F1.4 is $1,500

 

 

2 hours ago, Django said:

please get your info correct

Indeed, you should. 

2 hours ago, Django said:

and with the adapter you got access to some really good affordable Nikkor glass, like the 50mm F1.2 i recently purchased for under $400

WOW REALLY?! You can use the $250 adapter to use your $400 manual focus lens on their $3400 camera?! Amazing! Too bad you've equally been able to do that on the Sony's since the first A7, which are only like $700 and a $10 adapter. But props for Nikon finally having something you can do that with. They are really 'innovating' there

2 hours ago, Django said:

sorry but everybody knows Nikon is on a whole other level of weather resistance then Sony..

Bahahah I love how this one test has become the 'known facts of the universe' regarding weather resistance. Honestly NONE of the manufactures offer any true standard of water resistance that they are prepared to stand by. Not one. Therefore I consider them all to be garbage. Saying that, my house doesn't have extensive gaskets to 'seal it' yet rain never gets in. Funny that. 

2 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Sony's 24-70/4 isn't exactly a top performer optically

True that. But apparently neither is the Nikon. Personally I'd take the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 over either of them, rubber seals and all. Only problem is, it's not available for Nikon Z and they aren't opening them mount. 

2 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

And OSS isn't a critical feature when all your bodies have IBIS

Haven't Nikon claimed for forever (and therefore their fanboys too) that optical IS is SO much better than IBIS? Just checking that I haven't been imagining that. Seems the Nikon IBIS is pretty first gen too. The Sony OSS works alongside the IBIS, so there is added benefit to having both. Still would get that Tamron though...

1 hour ago, Django said:

Basically the point is no matter what you say or prove to him:  Sony > Nikon. 

Ironic given that to you Nikon > Sony no matter what. Yet it is only offensive one way?

16 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

From Atomos website. Sure not necessary to have the Ninja V. but would make life easier with the new Z cameras..

"When the Z6 & Z7 are connected, the Ninja V can automatically detect and be set up to record the new Nikon N-Log gamma signal for recording with specific presets designed for the cameras. The image can also be monitored in REC. 709".

Sounds like they have included N-Log as one of their baked in LUTs. Surely you'll just be able to upload one to the BM also. 

3 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

There are some unsettling noises made by the 70-200mm f2.8 when it is on the adapter in the fella with the big hair's video about the launch

Everyone claims how 'perfect' Canon is with adapted lenses, but I've got them and perfect is not the descriptor I would use. 

4 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

The thing is that Nikon have both sides of the puzzle with this adapter so it may get better as they tweak it for individual lenses but that lens is one of their holy trinity so it doesn't bode well for it being flawless just yet.

Sony do too. Just less people cared about the Sony lenses. In fact Sony were more proactive in supporting their legacy lenses than Nikon have been. But we won't say that with the fanboys around. 

[anonim]

40 minutes ago, MdB said:

And in the Sony you're getting dual card slots, internal S-Log without the need for external recorders, powerfully advanced custom picture profiles, high res capture, much better battery life, a much greater range of (and including professional) native lenses...

I mean the last two of those things on the list is what you Nikon fanboys claimed have been the advantage of Nikon since Sony mirrorless started. Are they suddenly not important any more because they are Nikon 'flaws' rather than Sony ones? 

 

Indeed, you should. 

WOW REALLY?! You can use the $250 adapter to use your $400 manual focus lens on their $3400 camera?! Amazing! Too bad you've equally been able to do that on the Sony's since the first A7, which are only like $700 and a $10 adapter. But props for Nikon finally having something you can do that with. They are really 'innovating' there

Bahahah I love how this one test has become the 'known facts of the universe' regarding weather resistance. Honestly NONE of the manufactures offer any true standard of water resistance that they are prepared to stand by. Not one. Therefore I consider them all to be garbage. Saying that, my house doesn't have extensive gaskets to 'seal it' yet rain never gets in. Funny that. 

True that. But apparently neither is the Nikon. Personally I'd take the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 over either of them, rubber seals and all. Only problem is, it's not available for Nikon Z and they aren't opening them mount. 

Haven't Nikon claimed for forever (and therefore their fanboys too) that optical IS is SO much better than IBIS? Just checking that I haven't been imagining that. Seems the Nikon IBIS is pretty first gen too. The Sony OSS works alongside the IBIS, so there is added benefit to having both. Still would get that Tamron though...

Ironic given that to you Nikon > Sony no matter what. Yet it is only offensive one way?

Sounds like they have included N-Log as one of their baked in LUTs. Surely you'll just be able to upload one to the BM also. 

Everyone claims how 'perfect' Canon is with adapted lenses, but I've got them and perfect is not the descriptor I would use. 

Sony do too. Just less people cared about the Sony lenses. In fact Sony were more proactive in supporting their legacy lenses than Nikon have been. But we won't say that with the fanboys around. 

Everything seems very well argumented to me - except that, as it seems, you confirm that jonpais is offensively favorable about sony, which he resolutely  denied that any time existed in his attitude ... but that, of course, is not important.

What now intrigues me is - why Nikon did such bad estimation of its qualities, regards his (as it seems obvious) direct rival and competitor? Especially when Nikon had prepared everything quite a long time for its mirrorless breakthrough?

Is it possible that Nikon at the moment actually has a plan (and some secret deal) to help somehow and indirectly Sony A camera sales as untouchable power?

I can't find a reason why would Nikon made such serious mistakes and omissions that you point at, missing opportunity to conquer market and to steal heart and pocket of, say for example, jonpais or some other neutral and sparing buyers of new systems of several thousands dollars?

[MdB]

18 hours ago, noone said:

It does seem the figures are a bit more than first stated for the Zed's I think but I would still think this same situation would apply and I would treat it the same as I would my A7s rather than a DSLR.

Absolutely. I routinely got 1500+ shots off my A7S back in the day (while also using LAEA adapter) off that FW50 battery. This occurred when shooting continuously over a period of a couple hours. Turning on and off shooting bits and pieces though and the battery life was pretty average. Still people would always point at the CIPA figures for Sony (around 300 shots) and say that was the most they could muster, while also providing their own anecdotes on how long their DSLR would shoot for (not considering during live view, because that would ruin their already very strong and valid argument). 

I think people need to get a clue. CIPA figures are not gospel. They are how a camera performs under one set of usage. Different usage, different figures. BUT it does give us a benchmark on which to judge (but every case must come from the CIPA figures, not their own experience). Given that, the Zs will get around the same battery as the original series A7s. 

16 hours ago, wolf33d said:

well there is an American company called black magic and guess what? They give us 4K60p raw for less money. They are just too video Focused. I wished they made mirorless FF hybrids.

Blackmagic are an Australian company. So are Atomos. 

11 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

And of course, someone had to take a crap in the punch bowl...

I've been trying so hard ? But seriously, I think the hype machine is working on overdrive on these cameras. There have been a few voices saying 'hey, maybe not so much'. 

It's also practically impossible for the cameras to be BAD. I just find the hype very frustrating indeed. Fanboyism is even worse! 

12 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Lackluster autofocus
No Eye Autofocus
Lackluster metering
Lackluster IBIS with adapted lenses
"Sony-Style" mushy buttons
1080p 120fps only in DX crop mode???
Laggy EVF (for stills)

Not surprised by any of these things. 

9 hours ago, Django said:

That said for all I know the AF does struggle in low-light (most MILCs do imo), I'd just wait until more thorough reviews before passing judgment..

All cameras suffer in low light. Really good mirrorless are no worse than really good DSLRs, maybe even better. 

5 hours ago, Django said:

Looks like Nikon have done their homework and thoroughly copied Canon's dual pixel AF for video implementation

I thought that Nikon don't copy... Oh wait no you meant they don't copy Sony (because you don't like Sony and therefore find it offensive to even consider that Nikon would copy them, despite the fact that that whole product line is a direct copy and is being launch because of Sony). Legit. 

5 hours ago, Django said:

Smart of them to copy top features from various industry leaders.

Bahahahaha! So long as that isn't Sony amiright?! ?

4 hours ago, Django said:

you have to enable "Low light AF" to reach -4EV which they probably did not do.

Why would you have to enable low light AF? This sounds ridiculous. There must be some major downside to having it enabled? Perhaps this camera's slow burst rate and buffer are affected even further? 

4 hours ago, jonpais said:

Sorry to be such a stickler but either it is dual pixel or it is not. If not, it cannot copy how Canon's DPAF operates and works

It isn't. But he doesn't want to say they copied Sony, or borrowed Sony's tech, because he can't stomach the idea. 

[TheRenaissanceMan]

This thread is feeling needlessly antagonistic. New options are good, yeah?

[MdB]

4 minutes ago, anonim said:

except that, as it seems, you confirm that jonpais is offensively favorable about sony, which he resolutely  denied that any time existed in his attitude

I can't speak for Jon, but I find it somewhat frustrating as a user of most all systems (and care little of brand) just how much the status quo for ALL other brands fanboys will bash Sony and only Sony. Put it this way, if you are a Fuji, Oly, Panasonic, Canon, Ricoh, Nikon or Canon fanboy who do you bash? Sony. Most often with poorly understood or researched 'facts' that you read or heard somewhere on the internet. I find those kinds of arguments super annoying. Sony are far from perfect, but nobody is. Why they cop the majority of fanboy rage I have no idea, I guess in every segment they are the biggest threat to the status quo. 

8 minutes ago, anonim said:

What now intrigues me is - why Nikon did such bad estimation of its qualities, regards his (as it seems obvious) direct rival and competitor? Especially when Nikon had prepared everything quite a long time for its mirrorless breakthrough?

Probably a number of reasons: 

1. Always be aware of manufacturer claims. I doubt they've been working specifically on this project as long as they claim. Little facts suggest otherwise. 

2. Believe it or not, Nikon aren't automatically capable of 'crushing' Sony just because they are Nikon. Sony have WAY more experience in this field. A lot of this stuff stems from video too, which again Sony has much more experience in. Every good Nikon (and Oly and Canon etc) fanboy seems to think that as soon as Nikon took mirrorless 'seriously' they would have an undeniably better camera right off the bat. This is simply not true. They've given it a really good bash, but it's not perfect. Canon can't magically do that either. 

12 minutes ago, anonim said:

Is it possible that Nikon at the moment actually has a plan (and some secret deal) to help somehow and indirectly Sony A camera sales as untouchable power?

Tin foil hat anyone? I like how now that the Nikon reality is starting to kick in and we realise that they can't just 'crush' Sony whenever they want, that suddenly it must be Sony's fault the camera isn't as good. Smart. 

14 minutes ago, anonim said:

I can't find a reason why would Nikon made such serious mistakes and omissions that you point at, missing opportunity to conquer market and stole hearth and pocket of, say for example, jonpais or some other neutral and sparing buyers of new systems of several thousands dollars?

How about this: Cameras are complex pieces of technology. Yes technology. Always have been. This stuff requires a lot of testing and R&D and improving and feedback etc. Plus they have to look at the market and somehow predict the future (they need features for the next model or higher models etc). Then you need the tech and the team etc behind it. Plus all this has to be done in secret and so on. Basically it's hard. It takes time and money and resources which are finite. Nikon made a really good camera by all accounts. As a first effort it seems pretty decent chock full of Sony tech and Nikon 'style' for whatever that is worth. Looks like it should be quite popular among the Nikon enthusiasts. 

[anonim]

19 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

This thread is feeling needlessly antagonistic

No way... if you would be enough long here,  you will recognize it mostly as just matter of usual seasonal migration and its normal side effects

[Django]

1 hour ago, MdB said:

WOW REALLY?! You can use the $250 adapter to use your $400 manual focus lens on their $3400 camera?! Amazing! Too bad you've equally been able to do that on the Sony's since the first A7, which are only like $700 and a $10 adapter. But props for Nikon finally having something you can do that with. They are really 'innovating' there

Thanks for the tip, but guess what? I've been using my AIS/AFD/AFS Nikkor lens collection on Sony & Fuji bodies for years now.. but those cheap dumb adapters go so far. I'm looking forward to a more elegant solution which the FTZ adapter should bring, can you blame me?

1 hour ago, MdB said:

Ironic given that to you Nikon > Sony no matter what. Yet it is only offensive one way?

 

No, what's really ironic is that i'm currently on Sony gear professionally speaking and Canon/Fuji gear in personal ownership. I haven't even owned a Nikon body in years lol.. however I am mature enough not to have any brand loyalty blinding me or fanboy insecurities over my personal investment clouding my judgement.

Anyways the Nikon isn't perfect and more importantly it hasn't been released and tested yet. But from what i've seen so far and knowing their reputation & gear qualities as an ex-owner, I am not only excited about this release, I do feel indeed that for my needs it trumps current Sony offerings in a multitude of ways (and in others it doesn't). In any case this is positive for all consumers as it will put pressure on Sony and Canon to go even further on their upcoming mirrorless releases.

You don't have to agree with me but I advise you calm down cuz I'm getting some real aggressive vibes from you when in reality i'm on your side as a C100/5D owner. we cool?

[MdB]

6 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

This thread is feeling needlessly antagonistic. New options are good, yeah?

Couldn't agree more. Just needs a reality check. I also really loathe throw away comments of assumption. What do they say about assumptions? 

The cameras look pretty ok. Good to see there is another product on the market. Let's hope Nikon don't ditch it because it's not going so well like so many of their other products. It might end up being really exciting. But to me personally it's pretty useless without an EF adapter or AF adapter for M-Mount lenses. I have zero interest in the 3 native lenses. 

[anonim]

10 minutes ago, MdB said:

I can't speak for Jon, but I find it somewhat frustrating as a user of most all systems (and care little of brand) just how much the status quo for ALL other brands fanboys will bash Sony and only Sony. Put it this way, if you are a Fuji, Oly, Panasonic, Canon, Ricoh, Nikon or Canon fanboy who do you bash? Sony. Most often with poorly understood or researched 'facts' that you read or heard somewhere on the internet. I find those kinds of arguments super annoying. Sony are far from perfect, but nobody is. Why they cop the majority of fanboy rage I have no idea, I guess in every segment they are the biggest threat to the status quo. 

Probably a number of reasons: 

1. Always be aware of manufacturer claims. I doubt they've been working specifically on this project as long as they claim. Little facts suggest otherwise. 

2. Believe it or not, Nikon aren't automatically capable of 'crushing' Sony just because they are Nikon. Sony have WAY more experience in this field. A lot of this stuff stems from video too, which again Sony has much more experience in. Every good Nikon (and Oly and Canon etc) fanboy seems to think that as soon as Nikon took mirrorless 'seriously' they would have an undeniably better camera right off the bat. This is simply not true. They've given it a really good bash, but it's not perfect. Canon can't magically do that either. 

Tin foil hat anyone? I like how now that the Nikon reality is starting to kick in and we realise that they can't just 'crush' Sony whenever they want, that suddenly it must be Sony's fault the camera isn't as good. Smart. 

How about this: Cameras are complex pieces of technology. Yes technology. Always have been. This stuff requires a lot of testing and R&D and improving and feedback etc. Plus they have to look at the market and somehow predict the future (they need features for the next model or higher models etc). Then you need the tech and the team etc behind it. Plus all this has to be done in secret and so on. Basically it's hard. It takes time and money and resources which are finite. Nikon made a really good camera by all accounts. As a first effort it seems pretty decent chock full of Sony tech and Nikon 'style' for whatever that is worth. Looks like it should be quite popular among the Nikon enthusiasts. 

So, may I make simply conclusion that just so-call Nikon enhusiasts and so-call fanboys will buy these cameras - because they are stubbornly unwilling to properly evaluate your arguments and finally admit that, for the same money, Sony A7x is better choice?