Mokara Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 7 hours ago, Robert Collins said: Its an interesting video and the short he shot looks very good. His enthusiasm for the camera seems both genuine and infectious. But what really struck me through the video was how it seems like a DSLR shooter who has just had a mirrorless epiphany. Lightweight on a small gimbal, longer drone flights, ibis is like a gimbal built into the camera, accurate focusing. I particularly liked his comment at the 38th minute.... 'This was the big breakthrough for me..... all of a sudden the ability to shoot video while looking through the electronic viewfinder - game changing - completely game changing for a guy like me.,...' It is guys with attitudes like that who have been holding back the MILC revolution. I bet he was one of those who were down on the utility of MILCs without ever actually having used one. 6 hours ago, Nikkor said: Old white male in South East Asia, I'm not going to state the obvious. You mean a Vietnam vet who loved the culture and stayed in the region? I would guess that there are quite a few of those. 54 minutes ago, Danyyyel said: I completely approve what you said about the difference between Cine and photo lens but the thing is until now no one has introduced advance electronic tech in cinema lens. A stepless motor could be immensely more precise and smooth than a human hand. If you watched the video I posted above you could see that they have added a lot of video functionality to their lens and AF settings like speed, clickless aperture etc. For example the zoom or focus ring is programmable, in one case the music video guy talked about once you override the auto focus just by using the focus ring the peaking was automatically enable in the viewfinder. That's for me a wow feature for video and something completely new. It would at least be important to watch a video before calling BS and in general FF lens are better than apsc ones because they are meant to cover a wider area and again in general, that means less distortion and loss of sharpness as the center of the lens are always the sweet spot. Not necessarily true. A lens has an inherent resolution, and if you are only using part of it you may be getting less sensor resolution than you otherwise would with a lens that was designed specifically for that smaller format. 46 minutes ago, Danyyyel said: The Nikon Z system is the shortest flange in the industry, so you could adapt everything except perhaps the Sony ones. The difference is that it will have full functionality on a ton of Nikon and most third party fmount lens (the sigma art worked from fronos photo video). I think you will have third party adapter coming with at least screw mount motor for older nikon lens without motor. This will already get you more than 300 hundred (Just Nikon without counting other third party like Tamron, Sigma) lens. Sorry it was another video where they talk about S lens etc The new lens mount will be proprietary, so no one will be making lenses or adapters unless Nikon gives them a license, which is unlikely considering that Nikon is in the lens market themselves. Don't count on any native mount lenses from other manufacturers anytime soon. You will need to use older mount lenses together with the Nikon adapter if you want to use off-brand lenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Danyyyel said: The Nikon Z system is the shortest flange in the industry, so you could adapt everything except perhaps the Sony ones. The difference is that it will have full functionality on a ton of Nikon and most third party fmount lens (the sigma art worked from fronos photo video). I think you will have third party adapter coming with at least screw mount motor for older nikon lens without motor. This will already get you more than 300 hundred (Just Nikon without counting other third party like Tamron, Sigma) lens. Yeah but Sony has had that thingy where you can use all the A camera lenses, and all the old Minolta lenses, and every odd ball manufacturer, including Sears that made lenses for Minolta cameras. It not like Nikon has invented the wheel like everyone seems to think on here. Sure it is a nice product, but earth shaking new stuff, Nah. What 10 bit in a video camera, and it is not in, it's out, Come on. That is not new. Hell the cheap ass PK4 is going to beat that stat, and have Raw to boot. Several Panasonic cameras do 10 bit. Old news. I am impressed with both of the Nikon Z's. But super impressed, well I guess we will have to wait for some real tests. I don't own one Nikon lens so I am not a buyer as they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 32 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: Yeah but Sony has had that thingy where you can use all the A camera lenses, and all the old Minolta lenses, and every odd ball manufacturer, including Sears that made lenses for Minolta cameras. It not like Nikon has invented the wheel like everyone seems to think on here. Sure it is a nice product, but earth shaking new stuff, Nah. What 10 bit in a video camera, and it is not in, it's out, Come on. That is not new. Hell the cheap ass PK4 is going to beat that stat, and have Raw to boot.. I use a Ninja flame with my d750, what it brings is so much more than just a recorder, show me one dslr/milc that have has the functionality that an Atomos recorder brings you . The NinjaV will still be viable with its 60p 4k and even raw recording for at least two more generations of cameras, that I don't even think will have all its exposure tool, etc in any small MILC for the next 5 years. If in 2018 the equivalence of a 70mm Imax camera esthetics can be put in a small hand bag including the camera and a 5 inch size screen, I am baffled. 10 bit was the last limitation in the affordable cinema quality. We first got large sensor with the Canon 5d, then came resolution with 4k minus moire/aliasing, but what was missing was 10 bit. Those two bits add so much in terms of colour information and level of shade that have been plaguing dslr/milc image. You can have 8k, log etc but without those at least 2 bit it is useless. Those 10 bit will make log usable so that you can use the maximum of the DR of your camera and eliminate banding. If putting a screen that would fit in a big pocket is outrageous for you, so image quality is not important to you. And for what cost $ 2700!!!!!!! Much less that what the 5d use to cost... 10 years ago. Please rant a bit more... because for me, this is a pivotal point, where the camera has become good enough or exceed the capacities of the operator. If you can't do some serious/gorgeous imagery with this camera, it is not the camera the limiting factor, but you. The same as what happened in photography with the D800 camera, if you could not do good photography with it, it is your fault. Adept, Mark Romero 2 and IronFilm 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntblowz Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said: The lenses look pretty good to me so far. I don't know if I would pay $600 for an f/1.8 though... and I don't know many photographers who would, either, considering that there still seem to be some wrinkles in the (pre-production) version of the AF. Yeah, some video people would pay that and consider it a bargain, but realistically, I think Nikon is still going to rely on stills shooters to carry them through financially, with hybrid / video-oriented shooters pulling in a distant second. Well people love paying $1000 for Zeiss 55 1.8, the most popular prime among Sony users, way more popular than FE 50mm 1.8 for 1/4 the price, so if the lens is sexy enough people will buy it nevertheless. And $600 for a lens that have really sharp f1.8 is good price, even Zeiss 55 need stop down to f2.8 achieve nice sharpness, but Nikon one is similar sharpness at 1.8 and 2.8 unlike Zeiss. (downside is it is bigger and heavier than Zeiss, laws of physic), only the much more expensive $1500 Zeiss 50mm 1.4 can compete $600 Nikon 1.8 sharpness wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Danyyyel said: I use a Ninja flame with my d750, what it brings is so much more than just a recorder, show me one dslr/milc that have has the functionality that an Atomos recorder brings you . The NinjaV will still be viable with its 60p 4k and even raw recording for at least two more generations of cameras, that I don't even think will have all its exposure tool, etc in any small MILC for the next 5 years. If in 2018 the equivalence of a 70mm Imax camera esthetics can be put in a small hand bag including the camera and a 5 inch size screen, I am baffled. 10 bit was the last limitation in the affordable cinema quality. We first got large sensor with the Canon 5d, then came resolution with 4k minus moire/aliasing, but what was missing was 10 bit. Those two bits add so much in terms of colour information and level of shade that have been plaguing dslr/milc image. You can have 8k, log etc but without those at least 2 bit it is useless. Those 10 bit will make log usable so that you can use the maximum of the DR of your camera and eliminate banding. If putting a screen that would fit in a big pocket is outrageous for you, so image quality is not important to you. And for what cost $ 2700!!!!!!! Much less that what the 5d use to cost... 10 years ago. Please rant a bit more... because for me, this is a pivotal point, where the camera has become good enough or exceed the capacities of the operator. If you can't do some serious/gorgeous imagery with this camera, it is not the camera the limiting factor, but you. The same as what happened in photography with the D800 camera, if you could not do good photography with it, it is your fault. Sure 10 bit is better than 8 bit, but wouldn't it be sort of nice if they Kicked up the mbps a little to take advantage of it? But I will admit the 4:2:2 10-bit HDMI output is pretty nice for an affordable FF camera, but I just wish it was internal, not a external recorder requirement. And now it will force Sony to go10 bit also, but I would guess the Sony A7s mk III will be 10 bit also. Maybe even 4k 60p. But probably not internal unless they make a bigger body or add a fan, ehh equals a bigger body LoL. Interesting times no doubt. But they are out of my income bracket by the time you buy a body, new lenses, a new recorder, a better computer to even edit it, on and on. A BMPCC is looking better every day LoL. 325 bucks on ebay with Cage And D-Tap!! https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMPCC-With-Cage-And-D-Tap/173480066730?hash=item286437beaa:g:KR8AAOSwx0ZbeFYQ Color Depth10-bit (HDMI) 8-bit (internal) Max Bitrate (MBps)100Mbps Video CodecsMPEG-4, H.264 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 3 hours ago, ntblowz said: And $600 for a lens that have really sharp f1.8 is good price, even Zeiss 55 need stop down to f2.8 achieve nice sharpness, but Nikon one is similar sharpness at 1.8 and 2.8 unlike Zeiss. (downside is it is bigger and heavier than Zeiss, laws of physic), only the much more expensive $1500 Zeiss 50mm 1.4 can compete $600 Nikon 1.8 sharpness wise. Where are the MTF charts you’re referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noone Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 The MTFs I have seen do look really good and Nikon does say they are proud of the 50 1.8 so I am guessing it WILL be a really nice lens. Don't know about the Sony Zeiss needing to be stopped down to 2.8 to be sharp though as I mostly use it at f2 and would be happy to use it at 1.8 and only stop down with it for DOF purposes. It has left all my other normal lenses I have had for dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 what MTF charts? The lenses haven’t even been released yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Use google. According to nikon these lenses have better mtfs than the 105 1.4 which is one if not the sharpest lens they tested at lensrentals, after seeing that I really must think hard to either go fuji gfx or this... https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/z_24-70mmf4s/spec.htm https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/z_50mmf18s/spec.htm https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/z_35mmf18s/spec.htm for comparison nikons own mtf for the 105 1.4 https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/f-mount/singlefocal/Telephoto/af-s_105mmf_14e_ed/index.htm lenserentals test: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/11/nikon-105mm-f1-4-e-mtf-bench-tests/ So if you guys know a thing or two about lenses you know this is some serious shit. Just look at that kit zoom lens being sharper than most DSLR prime lens lineups... Gordon Zernich 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noone Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 I am sure I saw them but can not think of where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 hahii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noone Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/z_50mmf18s/spec.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 The manufacturer’s MTFs. ? Manufacturers’ MTF charts are just computer generated models showing how a lens should perform - they never do as well in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrubloc Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Patience grasshopper. jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Collins Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 I am slightly surprised at Nikon's approach to lens pricing. I do get the if Sony charges a premium for its mirrorless lenses why shouldnt Nikon? But the price of lenses for the FE mount is the achilles heal of the system and why it isnt all that popular even with all the stellar reviews. (and why I rarely ever recommend it even though I use it.) I just think Nikon will find it difficult to get much traction amongst photographers. The budget conscious consumer is unlikely to spend US$4000 for a Z6, a zoom and a couple of primes when he can buy a D750 and similar lenses for US$2500. And are the pros going to really trade in a couple of G primes for US$200 each in order to buy two 1.8 primes for US$1400. The cost of witching to mirrorless looks very high. Of course for video guys the Z system makes a lot more sense because it adds a lot more value and also video guys are used to paying eyewatering prices for equipment. But I dont see Canon going down this route. The popularity of its mirrorless cameras is largely due to its pricing and particularly its pricing of lenses. You cant even buy an ef-m lens for over US$500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 I don’t get the fixation with MTF charts. Sharpness is all but taken for granted with premium lenses released today. Unsharp pictures are more often than not the result of user error nowadays. Pricing, physical size, weather sealing, AF speed and accuracy, build quality and stuff like chromatic aberration and nearest focusing distance are all things a buyer considers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Yeah in this day of computer generated lenses recipes the days old endless trial and error are over. Look at all of these company's making Cine lenses now. Who the heck but Cooke and Zeiss could afford to do that years ago. I am not saying they are up there with those two makers, but they are making them none the less with pretty good results,and on the cheap. Sure some are rehoused off the shelf stuff, but some are the real Mc Coy. But yeah the new Nikon lenses do look good, I mean they have been doing this for awhile. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 6 hours ago, Robert Collins said: I am slightly surprised at Nikon's approach to lens pricing. I do get the if Sony charges a premium for its mirrorless lenses why shouldnt Nikon? But the price of lenses for the FE mount is the achilles heal of the system and why it isnt all that popular even with all the stellar reviews. (and why I rarely ever recommend it even though I use it.) I just think Nikon will find it difficult to get much traction amongst photographers. The budget conscious consumer is unlikely to spend US$4000 for a Z6, a zoom and a couple of primes when he can buy a D750 and similar lenses for US$2500. And are the pros going to really trade in a couple of G primes for US$200 each in order to buy two 1.8 primes for US$1400. The cost of witching to mirrorless looks very high. Of course for video guys the Z system makes a lot more sense because it adds a lot more value and also video guys are used to paying eyewatering prices for equipment. But I dont see Canon going down this route. The popularity of its mirrorless cameras is largely due to its pricing and particularly its pricing of lenses. You cant even buy an ef-m lens for over US$500. I understand your point about lens pricing, I think with the bigger mount etc, these lens will prove to be superior to the original Nikon ones (and I guess most brands) and as such with the Sony lens already costing higher, it was easy to alight the Z ones to Sony's. But at least it seems that the adapter is working extremely well, so most will just upgrade the body for now and slowly buy into the new lens as time goes by. I also think that this is just the start of the new lineup. Apsc model at much lower price will come, there was a rumor on Nikonrumors that a Nikon d3400 successor would be coming, but it would be mirror less but with the Fmount. Which make sens in terms of cost of manufacturing and the company for now putting all its energy in Z lens line up. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Bakos Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Does anyone know if the in-body lens corrections (distortion, CA, vignetting) are applied to the HDMI feed as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Attila Bakos said: Does anyone know if the in-body lens corrections (distortion, CA, vignetting) are applied to the HDMI feed as well? They should be, unless you are talking about RAW feed. Regular HDMI video would simple be an uncompressed form of what is normally recorded in camera. With RAW you would need to apply those corrections yourself since all you are getting is data directly off the sensor without any processing applied to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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