Django Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Aside from the 1DX2, no other FF camera can currently do 4K60p.. internally or externally. Hardly a "complete miss" unless you are comparing to XT3/GH5 who are both crop sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Django said: Aside from the 1DX2, no other FF camera can currently do 4K60p.. internally or externally. Hardly a "complete miss" unless you are comparing to XT3/GH5 who are both crop sensors. Sure, I am. With proper glass you can mimic FF look along a crop sensor. FF means too little apart higher resolution stills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Yurolov said: I think it has more to do with acquisition rate and the algorithm than the sheer amount of the points. I think AF point density is a lot more important than you may think in these particular MILC models as they are all line types. That is why Canon went with a whooping 5,655 AF point number to ensure similar if not better performance to it's DSLR counterpart. This recent Canon engineer interview from IR gives some interesting AF info relative to Z series: In conventional phase-detection autofocus systems, autofocus points can be either "line" or "cross" type, depending on what orientations of subject detail they're sensitive to. Line-type points can only "see" subject detail oriented around one axis (horizontal or vertical), cross-type points can detect and respond to subject detail in either direction. As is the case with the new Nikon Z7 and Z6 full-frame mirrorless cameras, the autofocus points in the EOS R are all horizontally-oriented line-type points, meaning they're sensitive only to subject detail in that direction. (The terminology can be a little confusing; horizontal points are sensitive to detail that's horizontal, meaning vertically-oriented objects. As an example, horizontal points can focus on picket fences, but not on window blinds.) This seemed like a weakness to me, but when I asked the Canon engineers about it, they gave essentially the same answer the Nikon engineers had about the Z7: Thanks to the very high density of AF points, the chances of missing focus on a subject because it has no horizontal detail are very low. Even with a subject like window blinds, if the camera is the tiniest bit tilted relative to the subject, an edge of a slat (for instance) would cross an area covered by an AF point, letting the camera focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I also believe (just a guess though) Z7 will have better AF focus. This doesn't mean Z6 won't work out either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansel Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Heart breaking. I can't wait to see how z6 af is doing. Z7 focus is insane. Geoff CB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasiliskFilm Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 If AF is a linear function, then the density of AF points on the Z6 is 3/4 that on the Z7, which doesn't sound as bad as "about half". As the sensor density is about 8K rather than 6K that is about what you would need for the extra stills resolution. Does the Z7 even process data from all the focus points in full frame video? Maybe it skips some like it does with the pixel readout for the image. Maybe the AF points are a bit larger on the Z6, allowing more accuracy in low light. There are various reasons not to worry about the Z6 until we have seen it at work. One thing we can probably agree on is that Nikon made a bit of a pig's ear of the whole launch thing. Having failed to address the obvious user questions early on, the good news about video quality, low light performance, AF performance etc has taken a while to emerge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenscamera Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 2 hours ago, BasiliskFilm said: If AF is a linear function, then the density of AF points on the Z6 is 3/4 that on the Z7, which doesn't sound as bad as "about half". As the sensor density is about 8K rather than 6K that is about what you would need for the extra stills resolution. Does the Z7 even process data from all the focus points in full frame video? Maybe it skips some like it does with the pixel readout for the image. Maybe the AF points are a bit larger on the Z6, allowing more accuracy in low light. There are various reasons not to worry about the Z6 until we have seen it at work. One thing we can probably agree on is that Nikon made a bit of a pig's ear of the whole launch thing. Having failed to address the obvious user questions early on, the good news about video quality, low light performance, AF performance etc has taken a while to emerge! I was just about to post to ask those more knowledgeable than I that is possible to for the AF on the Z6 to be programmed to work the same as the Z7 using the less focus points on the Z6 sensor? You're right, I am sure it will depend if the Z7 is processing data from all the focus points in full frame video. If Nikon is smart (which they were not very with the way they role out the Z6 & 7 announcements) they will have their people who have Z6s sent out more videos about the Z6 in the coming days especially as we're waiting for in 5 days for the Panasonic FF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liork Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 13 hours ago, Django said: Other than the sensor, the main difference in between the Z6 & Z7 is the AF system: Z7 has 493 phase detect points vs 273 on the Z6. It would appear on paper that with half the PDAF points, the Z6 AF could be significantly less accurate. In video mode, the Z6 has less focus points than 273: "231 on-sensor PDAF points used for video In FX-based movie format". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gethin Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 On 9/20/2018 at 9:52 AM, Geoff CB said: This is straight up magic. isnt the grass a bit saturated and cyan? Or is it just my montior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Young Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 The Z6 low light video Dreaming has been removed from Vimeo. Interesting... maybe Nikon were disappointed with the dead pixels ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 13 hours ago, gethin said: isnt the grass a bit saturated and cyan? Or is it just my montior No they were Olympus looking colors to be hones. Much too hot for my liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasiliskFilm Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 16 hours ago, Simon Young said: The Z6 low light video Dreaming has been removed from Vimeo. Interesting... maybe Nikon were disappointed with the dead pixels ? The Z6 seems to be staying under wraps for the time being. I guess if it gets launched with fully stable and optimised firmware then that might be a good thing. Simon Young 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Super deal https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/22/big-price-drop-on-nikon-z6-on-amazon-germnay.aspx/ @Andrew Reid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, Nikkor said: Super deal https://nikonrumors.com/2018/09/22/big-price-drop-on-nikon-z6-on-amazon-germnay.aspx/ @Andrew Reid Speculations run amok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Looking good. So much new tech coming out. Gotta wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 I don’t envy Nikon and Canon shooters who’ve got to decide whether to keep buying DSLR lenses or hold out for the mirrorless versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasiliskFilm Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, jonpais said: I don’t envy Nikon and Canon shooters who’ve got to decide whether to keep buying DSLR lenses or hold out for the mirrorless versions. At least Canon video shooters can go mirrorless happy in the thought that they can keep their beloved 1.7 crop... If the evidence continues to grow that adapted lenses on the Z series work well, then the mirrorless option looks increasingly attractive for video shooters. Sadly many of my D series lenses with lovely aperture rings will become MF only if I go that way, by the looks of things, unless they bring out a screw drive adaptor. For video use I doubt they would ever be smooth enough to use in AF mode anyway. IronFilm and hansel 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, BasiliskFilm said: Sadly many of my D series lenses with lovely aperture rings will become MF only if I go that way, by the looks of things, unless they bring out a screw drive adaptor. With so many long long time Nikon shooters I'm sure it is only a matter of time until they bring out a screw drive adapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansel Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 35 minutes ago, IronFilm said: With so many long long time Nikon shooters I'm sure it is only a matter of time until they bring out a screw drive adapter. Am in the same pickle here. Will probably have to switch all my favorite lenses to afs versions. I don't think they'll make a screw drive adapter but would love to be proven wrong. 300 f4 meehhh, 85 f1.4 meehhh, my favorite glass is dead now. Will need to come up with a lens strategy....aka coughing up monies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 It's not like af-d lenses could be used in continuous video af, the noise is tremendous. hansel and Geoff CB 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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