Castorp Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Just now, webrunner5 said: Every bit of footage I have seen from it all looks like that. You must be the only one than can grade I guess. ? No need to grade. Just lower the contrast and sharpening a notch or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 I’m with webrunner5, every Z footage I’ve seen has this grim crushed black oversharp look. I thought it was because of lack of internal Log or maybe even lack of exposure meters but that ProRes RAW footage looks the same. Surely the camera is capable of a nice organic IQ in the right hands but I still haven’t seen it.. webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Django said: I’m with webrunner5, every Z footage I’ve seen has this grim crushed black oversharp look. I thought it was because of lack of internal Log or maybe even lack of exposure meters but that ProRes RAW footage looks the same. Surely the camera is capable of a nice organic IQ in the right hands but I still haven’t seen it.. Yeah the output from them is 100 miles different looking than the D750 which is great. Even the D500 is better. I have no clue what they have done. That Ain't Nikon CS in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liork Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 This video was shot with the Z6: Geoff_L and foliage 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff_L Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 9 hours ago, Django said: I’m with webrunner5, every Z footage I’ve seen has this grim crushed black oversharp look. I thought it was because of lack of internal Log or maybe even lack of exposure meters but that ProRes RAW footage looks the same. Surely the camera is capable of a nice organic IQ in the right hands but I still haven’t seen it.. If I'm not wrong, this is literally the first real world raw video (and graded) that we see. Maybe give a little time until experienced filmmakers try it when it will be widely available. I share the Castorp's view : Nikon is not widely represented in the video world, so you do not come across the same amount of great footages provided by videographers and filmmakers, as with Sony, Canon etc. Most videos I see are graded in a way that departs a lot from what you got straight out of the camera with the flat profile. Maybe people like Matti do apply their Canon or Sony sauce to the Nikon footage... None of the attributes you both see in the videos you came across are represented in the flat profile footages I've shot since November... And no need to argue "You must be the only one than can grade I guess.", cause I grade like sh*t and am still learning ? Seriously, when I think of all the videos I watch from gh5, bmpcc4k, a7iii... I can see a lot of identic awful stuff that all try to mimic the same style, or use the same lut. I can not conclude that the characteristics of those cameras are responsible for these styles, because I have a lot of other great stuffs to compare with... It unfortunately is not the case with the z6. But I have personaly found some really good looking stuff that give me hope ! Castorp and IronFilm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrteh Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Even that video has more of a dark look to it that i just don't like. It is not like this thing just came out this week. It would be at the bottom of my list. At least the Canon EOS-R has it's warts, but it does have nice CS. There is no reason in this day and age to Have to be as good as Zak to get a decent image from a modern camera lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: Even that video has more of a dark look to it that i just don't like. It is not like this thing just came out this week. It would be at the bottom of my list. At least the Canon EOS-R has it's warts, but it does have nice CS. Andrew Reids LUTs and in camera profile seem like a good option. webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Just now, thebrothersthre3 said: Andrew Reids LUTs and in camera profile seem like a good option. I must admit I have not investigated them. I will give it a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: I must admit I have not investigated them. I will give it a look. colors look a lot more vibrant. That said can't find anything with skintones Castorp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Hmm sort of has an early Sony look to it without the noise. Defiantly an improvement, but not a Jeez I want to run out and buy one look. Not the creamy D750 look, at least to me. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip77 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 On 8/25/2018 at 10:35 AM, wolf33d said: Sure. With pro lens pricing. And maybe pro battery life, pro 1 card slot For stills if I did not mind of the above I would buy a Z instead of Alpha because Nikon sensor tweak is always a tad better and for ergonomics. But for video, let’s be honest guys, the A7S III will be miles ahead of both the A7III and those Nikon. And because the A7S line is more niche, Nikon won’t bother compete here. The Z6 is already ahead of were the A7SIII was going to be with XQD cards, 10 bit 4K30fps and 12 bit RAW that's coming soon for the Z6. The Z6 also already outputs at a higher mbps then any other A7??? camera. The Z6 will also be able to output at higher mbps in the future with Atomos and it already has better color then any Sony camera. The A7SII claim to fame was lowlight performance and the Z6 already is great in that department. The Z6 also has better IBIS then any other A7??? camera. So if you take the mark that the Z6 is already at the A7SIII has a lot of ground to cover just to be equal to the Z6 (and Lumix S1) that the only thing the A7SIII will be able to do is up FPS to 60 at 4K and then it probably won't be at 10 bit anyway. Why do you think the A7SIII hasn't been announced yet? IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip77 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 On 4/19/2019 at 5:58 PM, webrunner5 said: Even that video has more of a dark look to it that i just don't like. It is not like this thing just came out this week. It would be at the bottom of my list. At least the Canon EOS-R has it's warts, but it does have nice CS. There is no reason in this day and age to Have to be as good as Zak to get a decent image from a modern camera lol. You can change and grade out the dark look. Why is this a concern? You raise the shadows up. webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip77 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 On 4/18/2019 at 2:28 AM, Geoff_L said: If I'm not wrong, this is literally the first real world raw video (and graded) that we see. Maybe give a little time until experienced filmmakers try it when it will be widely available. I share the Castorp's view : Nikon is not widely represented in the video world, so you do not come across the same amount of great footages provided by videographers and filmmakers, as with Sony, Canon etc. Most videos I see are graded in a way that departs a lot from what you got straight out of the camera with the flat profile. Maybe people like Matti do apply their Canon or Sony sauce to the Nikon footage... None of the attributes you both see in the videos you came across are represented in the flat profile footages I've shot since November... And no need to argue "You must be the only one than can grade I guess.", cause I grade like sh*t and am still learning ? Seriously, when I think of all the videos I watch from gh5, bmpcc4k, a7iii... I can see a lot of identic awful stuff that all try to mimic the same style, or use the same lut. I can not conclude that the characteristics of those cameras are responsible for these styles, because I have a lot of other great stuffs to compare with... It unfortunately is not the case with the z6. But I have personaly found some really good looking stuff that give me hope ! Lots of great footage from the Z6 On 4/17/2019 at 5:20 PM, Django said: I’m with webrunner5, every Z footage I’ve seen has this grim crushed black oversharp look. I thought it was because of lack of internal Log or maybe even lack of exposure meters but that ProRes RAW footage looks the same. Surely the camera is capable of a nice organic IQ in the right hands but I still haven’t seen it.. The Z6 has sharpness setting you can adjust but it also captures more detail then the GH5s, BMP4K and A7III, detail not sharpness. The crushed blacks are not baked into he footage and can be adjusted if using auto mode to any other profile. Nikon definitely runs the full range from light o dark and pushes the shadows darker then Sony or Canon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip77 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 On 4/16/2019 at 10:08 AM, webrunner5 said: I find to me, that most of the Z6, Z7 footage I have seen come off as Way to dark, too much Contrast and a lot of crushed Blacks. It is just not pretty like Canon footage looks like. Canon has a softer look to it, more Pastel. The Nikon stuff is Gothic looking and is Far from realistic. I am sure you can change it in Post but. I am just not a fan of it at all... YMMV. Did you see the RedShark footage? I hope you can see user preference over graded footage. Do you own the Z6? I have the Z6 and the one thing it does is capture realistic color and dynamic range. Now Sony on the other hand..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castorp Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Doesn't look anything like Sony to me. I really dislike Sony colours. As has been said, I don't think there is nowhere near as many serious video shooters with Nikon yet. Nikon has not been a choice for serious video work until now. I love the look of the Z 6 and don't understand how they get such a fat image through so few mbps. But, webrunner5, if you don't like it that's fine, it's subjective at the end of the day. I think the only way you'll find out is if you rent one and see for yourself. No amount of online footage will do that for you. Geoff_L 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff_L Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 I'd like to share one or two clips, but I'm reluctant as I'm still learning how to properly use resolve and grade. I'm still working on my skills and, once I will be comfortable, I'll post here flat/before and an after clips. But what I can say is that the flat footage is quite neutral, and with only minor tweaks like curves, saturation etc. I really find the image to sing. And that's come from someone who likes what he sees from Canon, Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, BMD... I've always preferred Nikon for stills (over Canon), and I find all the attributes that make me like Nikon imagery in the Z6 video files. I've also owned Fuji for years, but, for my tastes, I personally prefer more my stills output with the Z6, than with my XT1, XE2 and XT2. I'm mostly a landscape/documentary photographer for what it worth. Once again, you can read on forums, for example, that Panasonic colors are not at Canon's level, and a people complain about that. But, I often watch beautiful GH5 stuffs that literally destroy a large part of the things I watch on Canon... Coming back to the Z6, I maintain what I think concerning the ratio of filmmakers/amateur-first-time-videographer in the available videos at the moment. Yesterday, I was searching for fresh Z6 footage on youtube, and I mostly came across strange framerate videos, awful grading, copy/paste styles or luts that are not adapted etc. applied to lots of Z6 clips. It really do not praise in favor of the quality of the camera. I do hope that the next firmware will bring more experienced persons to use the camera, and give us a larger amount of great videos to watch. Just a question : prores raw is, at the moment, not editable on PC. Do you guys think that it may be possible one day ? I'm eager to try prores raw recording with the Z6, but not ready to ditch all my computer gear to switch to apple (no money for that). Thank you ! Skip77 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liork Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 16 hours ago, Skip77 said: The Z6 has sharpness setting you can adjust but it also captures more detail then the GH5s, BMP4K and A7III No, the Z6 does not capture more details than Sony A7III. The Z6 has a strong AA filter that decreases details. https://***URL removed***/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr29_0=sony_a7iii&attr29_1=nikon_z6&attr72_0=4k&attr72_1=4k&normalization=full&widget=341&x=0.20082815032951964&y=-0.5766719152403976 16 hours ago, Skip77 said: I have the Z6 and the one thing it does is capture realistic color and dynamic range. Now Sony on the other hand..... Also No, the Z6 does not have better dynamic range than Sony A7III. We will wait and see the RAW output, but for now, its still not better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 17 hours ago, Skip77 said: You can change and grade out the dark look. Why is this a concern? You raise the shadows up. Well if you have crushed blacks, like all of it seems to be, you have really no data in there to recover. Sure you can lighten it up , but there will be little to no detail left to see the Gradients that should have been there. There is no free lunch. If you could just do that with raising the shadows up later then why even bother with any exposure, just point and shoot, fix in Post. Same goes for blowing out the highs. There is no data to recover. You end up with like 7 stops of DR If you are lucky. Not counting if you get it right in camera you have less editing to do. Sure, we hopefully have the skill to push stuff around in post but the average person is not going to grade nothing, and they shounldn't be expected on Auto to Have to. I am not sure if you raise the exposure on these new Nikons to avoid the crushed blacks is there room at the top to Not blow out the highs? Maybe not, Nikon may be trying to preserve the highs as it is worse to blow them than crush the blacks. It is a odd duck CS if you ask me. Nothing I like very much. Nikon has somewhat in the last few years been known, at least on the camera photo side, as having a lot of DR, room to recover stuff. And it is a Sony Sensor, with Nikon's "secret sauce" in it so it ought to be capable. But they seemed, Nikon, to really change direction on these new ones. The older Nikons had some pretty great looking OOC CS. Interesting, surely no one complained about the D750 OOC look? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 17 hours ago, Skip77 said: Did you see the RedShark footage? I hope you can see user preference over graded footage. Do you own the Z6? I have the Z6 and the one thing it does is capture realistic color and dynamic range. Now Sony on the other hand..... Oh bullshit. The new Sony Venice CS is one of the best on the market now. It looks more Canon than Canon is. You are just talking out of your ass now. And the new Nikons have the worse out now. Fuji and Canon makes the new Nikon CS look like Hammered Dog Shit. And I liked Nikon until this turkey landed. I even have a Nikon DSLR. They need their ass beat. They must have hired the 3 Blind Mice for this new CS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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