Nikon Z6 features 4K N-LOG, 10bit HDMI output and 120fps 1080p

[webrunner5]

You didn't answer one of my questions. Just complain. Typical.

[Skip77]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

You didn't answer one of my questions. Just complain. Typical.

Not a complaint just answered a future comment of yours about going with out of date out of spec gear. 

Here are the answers: Which camera to go with that meets Netflix standards? I would buy this camera and what is shot or budgeted doesn't matter in regards to what's recommended. I would like to know what everyone thinks is the best camera out side of Arri or RED. Lights and everything else would be rented. Part of making the best cine camera should also include being Netflix qualified. If it qualifies that means it can be rented out. Heck if the Z6 ups it's data rate it could be approved by Netflix. 

The EVA-1 could be the camera or FS7 but I'm not sure the FS7 works for me, it looks great at times but other times not as solid. Does anyone know what cameras might be getting upgrades or new models in 2019?

[webrunner5]

Didn't answer my Budget question. That pretty much determines the whole ball of wax as they say. Cheap ass like I would have to go, or balls to the wall, big boy production?

[IronFilm]

On 4/28/2019 at 12:55 PM, Skip77 said:

What Netflix approved camera would you guys recommend? 

The Panasonic au-eva1 checks all the boxes. It's not talked a lot today and got beat up when it was released. 

 

If you're happy buying secondhand a Sony PMW-F5 sells for similar price to a new EVA1

But yeah if buying new, then an EVA1 is my pick at that price point. With that or take a punt on an UMP G2 (if you can live with the lower low light performance of the UMP)

[Mako Sports]

Nikon Z6 and Z7 have just received price reductions. Definitly a red flag.

[BasiliskFilm]

2 hours ago, Mako Sports said:

Nikon Z6 and Z7 have just received price reductions. Definitly a red flag.

Canon now have a low end RP model, and Sony is still selling the A7 and A7II low prices. Nikon may still have the best value full frame hybrid model in the Z6 (as Canon still doesn't do full frame video on mirrorless), but they don't want to vacate the sub £2000 market altogether. Sony is offering a similar discount on the A7III in the UK. 
The mirrorless market has suddenly got very crowded, and price competition is a new and mostly welcome thing. It doesn't mean they won't make it back with overpriced lenses though (as was always the case with e.g cheap inkjet printers and expensive cartridges...)

[Django]

6 hours ago, Skip77 said:

Not a complaint just answered a future comment of yours about going with out of date out of spec gear. 

Here are the answers: Which camera to go with that meets Netflix standards? I would buy this camera and what is shot or budgeted doesn't matter in regards to what's recommended. I would like to know what everyone thinks is the best camera out side of Arri or RED. Lights and everything else would be rented. Part of making the best cine camera should also include being Netflix qualified. If it qualifies that means it can be rented out. Heck if the Z6 ups it's data rate it could be approved by Netflix. 

1

Z6 will not be approved by Netflix simply by "upping it's data rate". Minimum requirements are 10-bit Log 240Mbps internal. 

But that isn't just it. There are a bunch of other practical specifications proper to cinema cameras that exclude consumer mirrorless cameras from the list. 

That said, the list is only really for Netflix Original content. Meaning your project has already been commissioned by Netflix, you then gotta follow those "rules".

There are exceptions though, Alexa Mini for example isn't on the list (as it is not true 4K sensor based) yet there is obviously Netflix Original material that was shot using it.

Nikon doesn't even have a cine cam so I don't even see the Z series being used as B or C cams. Netflix requirements being put aside.

As to answer your question: what is the best under $10K cine camera that meets Netflix standards: UMP 4.6K, C300 II, FS7,EVA1. 

EVA1 has the highest sensor out of those so perhaps indeed pulls ahead in the future-proof department. Camera has its quirks/cons though just like any other unit.

[ade towell]

4 hours ago, Mako Sports said:

Nikon Z6 and Z7 have just received price reductions. Definitly a red flag.

so has the EOS-r, the full frame mirriorless market is getting crowded, hopefully prices will keep going down

[Skip77]

3 hours ago, Django said:

Z6 will not be approved by Netflix simply by "upping it's data rate". Minimum requirements are 10-bit Log 240Mbps internal. 

But that isn't just it. There are a bunch of other practical specifications proper to cinema cameras that exclude consumer mirrorless cameras from the list. 

I wasn't being serious just mentioning specs. 

But no where does it say internal -

Capture Requirements:

Capture Format

RAW (Sony RAW, REDCODE, Arriraw etc.)

COMPRESSED (XAVC, ProRes, or other I-Frame capable formats)

Minimum of 16-bit Linear or 10-bit Log processing

Minimum data-rate of Bitrate of 240 Mbps at 23.98 fps

3 hours ago, Django said:

As to answer your question: what is the best under $10K cine camera that meets Netflix standards: UMP 4.6K, C300 II, FS7,EVA1. 

EVA1 has the highest sensor out of those so perhaps indeed pulls ahead in the future-proof department. Camera has its quirks/cons though just like any other unit.

Thanks for the info about the EVA-1.  

3 hours ago, Django said:

Nikon doesn't even have a cine cam so I don't even see the Z series being used as B or C cams. Netflix requirements being put aside.

Haha - I see 12 bit Raw only means something if it's on the GH5 or other cameras. Meaning if the GH5 had 12 bit Raw it would be pushed hard on this forum.

8 hours ago, Mako Sports said:

Nikon Z6 and Z7 have just received price reductions. Definitly a red flag.

Doesn't mean what you think. The Sony A9 has a $1,000 price cut. Pullout the red flags. Numbers are down for everyone. 

[Django]

It goes without saying.. take a look, every one of the cameras listed can do those minimum specs internally and for good reason. 

If they just accepted a format (i.e. Atomos footage) it would be impossible for Netflix to control what is actually following the minimum specs and what is just transcoded footage. opens a whole can of QC worms. Hence the approved camera list.

Like i said there are other unlisted broadcast/production requirements that those approved cameras meet, such as timecode (which is why the C200 isn't listed).

[Skip77]

10 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Didn't answer my Budget question. That pretty much determines the whole ball of wax as they say. Cheap ass like I would have to go, or balls to the wall, big boy production?

Budgets change for each production. For the camera under 10K.

1 minute ago, Django said:

It goes without saying.. take a look, every one of the cameras listed can do those minimum specs internally and for good reason. 

 

Atomos footage doesn't  make it any different then internal files does it?

Does the Atomos provide time-code?

For the price the EVA-1 looks very good. Would you pick the EVA-1 over the FS7?

[Django]

You're not hearing me: there is no easy way AFAIK to determine if recorder footage is real 10-bit 4:2:2 X bitrate and not some other lower format transcode. 

Having a camera list with those internal requirements eliminates that doubt.

Time code was just an example. And even though the Z6 actually provides time code it won't make that list due to the above.

Z6 also has other big issues like the aforementioned HDMI record lag of 34ms / 9fps. It just isn't close to being there yet.

But don't let that discourage you. The camera doesn't make the filmmaker good or "Netflix" worthy.

FS7 or EVA1? Depends, i tend to look at cameras through an ecosystem eye. So like for me it would be C200/C300 mk2.

If you're starting fresh and none of that matters, well EVA1 for the IQ. FS7 for just about everything else! 

[webrunner5]

Yeah I agree. The EVA1 has a better output, but the FS7 is just a true workhorse. But some are put off by it's size. And true about thinking about the ecosystem. You are probably going to have at least some B footage, maybe even more.

[Skip77]

1 hour ago, Django said:

You're not hearing me: there is no easy way AFAIK to determine if recorder footage is real 10-bit 4:2:2 X bitrate and not some other lower format transcode. 

Having a camera list with those internal requirements eliminates that doubt.

Time code was just an example. And even though the Z6 actually provides time code it won't make that list due to the above.

Z6 also has other big issues like the aforementioned HDMI record lag of 34ms / 9fps. It just isn't close to being there yet.

But don't let that discourage you. The camera doesn't make the filmmaker good or "Netflix" worthy.

FS7 or EVA1? Depends, i tend to look at cameras through an ecosystem eye. So like for me it would be C200/C300 mk2.

If you're starting fresh and none of that matters, well EVA1 for the IQ. FS7 for just about everything else! 

What's the lifespan of the FS7 before it's replaced?  

I'm not defending if the Z6 can be approved or not. Does the Atomos not give meta data that shows that files are 10 bit 4:22 X bitrate? That seems odd that the Atomos which we've used with the FS7, would not carry meta data with it's recorded footage. Is this the case? 

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

Does the Atomos provide time-code?

If you want timecode sync of the Ninja V you can use their AtomX Sync add on module if you are within the wireless timecode ecosystem of products from Timecode Systems like pulse: and UltraSync One.

If Atomos ever actually release it of course.

[Django]

34 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

I'm not defending if the Z6 can be approved or not. Does the Atomos not give meta data that shows that files are 10 bit 4:22 X bitrate? That seems odd that the Atomos which we've used with the FS7, would not carry meta data with it's recorded footage. Is this the case? 

2

It's easy to transcode files / fudge metadata. and yes people do it all the time to get around broadcast requirements. again the approved camera list ensures no funny business is going on.

Quote

What's the lifespan of the FS7 before it's replaced?  

Quote

 Does anyone know what cameras might be getting upgrades or new models in 2019?

.... timeframe seems to indicate somewhere before Tokyo 2020 Olympics.

[BTM_Pix]

6 minutes ago, Django said:

 Timeframe seems to indicate somewhere before Tokyo 2020 Olympics.

Another one to add to the list then along with the A7IIIs, the Sharp 8K, Canon Pro Mirrorless, Nikon Pro Mirrorless and the Kodak Box Brownie 8K.

At this rate Tokyo 2020 is going to be four weeks of camera launches with the occasional athletics event thrown in.

[anonim]

13 hours ago, Skip77 said:

I would like to know what everyone thinks is the best camera out side of Arri or RED.

Frankly, I think you would simply waste a time with anything besides Arri or RED. 

[Skip77]

41 minutes ago, Django said:

It's easy to transcode files / fudge metadata. and yes people do it all the time to get around broadcast requirements. again the approved camera list ensures no funny business is going on.

.... timeframe seems to indicate somewhere before Tokyo 2020 Olympics.

You're speaking for Netflix now and no place does it say internal recording.  That means even if you use a Arri out to Atomos the footage is not valid for Netflix. 

I appreciate the response but it's you're opinion and not Netflix policy. 

14 minutes ago, anonim said:

Frankly, I think you would simply waste a time with anything besides Arri or RED. 

Not in my budget right now. Lol

[Django]

34 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

You're speaking for Netflix now and no place does it say internal recording.  That means even if you use a Arri out to Atomos the footage is not valid for Netflix. 

I appreciate the response but it's you're opinion and not Netflix policy. 

2

Lol looks like you still didn't get it... I was attempting to explain to you why they have their strict camera policy.  Nevermind.

 

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Another one to add to the list then along with the A7IIIs, the Sharp 8K, Canon Pro Mirrorless, Nikon Pro Mirrorless and the Kodak Box Brownie 8K.

At this rate Tokyo 2020 is going to be four weeks of camera launches with the occasional athletics event thrown in.

It is certainly expected to be a major showcase of Japanese high-tech superiority, just like PyeongChang was last year for South Korea (most expensive Olympics ever).

Lot more at stake than gold medals