Skip77 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 16 minutes ago, DBounce said: I think the hostility is not so much directed at the Nikon Z6, but more towards the choice of prores raw. Which many view as psuedo raw. I believe the Z6 is a good effort from Nikon, but I wouldn't trade my C200 for it. Also, we've had no confirmation that it will output 12 bit... that is merely speculation at this point. The omission of a battery grip with controls was a big miss for many shooters. Like I said, none of these first gen efforts are checking all the boxes. How is this merely speculation? This would mean any announcement from any camera company is merely speculation. The evidence is from Nikon and Atomos. https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/6159-nikon-adds-12-bit-raw-output-to-z-7-and-z-6 The C200 is not a hybrid camera and it's price tag and what you get from the BM Ursa Min 4.6 and EVA-1, some would say this puts the C200 behind those camera. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 10 hours ago, Skip77 said: How is this merely speculation? This would mean any announcement from any camera company is merely speculation. The evidence is from Nikon and Atomos. https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/6159-nikon-adds-12-bit-raw-output-to-z-7-and-z-6 The C200 is not a hybrid camera and it's price tag and what you get from the BM Ursa Min 4.6 and EVA-1, some would say this puts the C200 behind those camera. My bad, I didn't realise Nikon had announced the offical specs. But it also doesn't change the fact that more than a few would have preferred "real" raw, instead of prores raw. Braw would have been a better choice... at least until Red makes BMD pay up and forces them to remove it from all their cameras. C200 is quick to get up and running, reliable and shoots a great image. For the money I could have opted for any of the others... hell I sill could... they are still selling them, but I won't. They just don't do it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip77 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 What's wrong with ProRes Raw? Done know enough about it yet? As much as Quicktime gives us in various codecs I would think Pro Res would be welcomed. Especially since Red holds the keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeng Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 It could always be better, I guess. But seriously, how many of you have expected we would talk about any kind of raw video in a mirrorless so soon? 12bit prores raw out of a full frame mirrorless camera - I'd say this is the "good enough" line I draw. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ade towell Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Have you got any footage you can share with us Zeng, you mentioned creating alexa luts earlier in this thread I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Maze Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Thanks for sharing my video @DBounce . I was surprised that anyone watched that 20 minute rant video lol. There is literally nothing to it but a rant. glad you like it. I wish Canon made better STM EF-S lenses so that crop wouldnt be such an issue. DBounce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 @DaveAltizer I just watched your video earlier too and enjoyed the rant ha. I picked up an EOS-R, A7III, X-T3, and just now a Z6 just to compare for myself. And I’ll be damned if EOS-R doesn’t have some mojo. It doesn’t make any sense on paper but as you, @DBounce and others have said, there is something satisfying about the image. And it’s not just color as I’m shooting monochrome video. It just somehow looks closer to vision I have my head. Even the X-T3 I found to look nice, but somehow more sterile and less vibey ha ha. And that was with both F-log and Acros and trying to match the rich monochrome look I can get out of the Canon. Still I’m very interested to see what the raw Z6 image will look like. DBounce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 12 hours ago, Skip77 said: What's wrong with ProRes Raw? Done know enough about it yet? As much as Quicktime gives us in various codecs I would think Pro Res would be welcomed. Especially since Red holds the keys. Pretty good article about it. I think the comments say more than the article. BMD obliviously is never going to use it in their cameras now that they have bRaw. I doubt Red or Arri is going that way. And I am not positive, but I think you Have to use an Apple computer to use it. So that is another turd. And is Resolve ever going to let you use in it it? Might be a good idea but looks like you are going to have to kiss Atomos's butt, and lick Apple's ass to use it.... https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/05/07/understanding-prores-raw-is-it-prores-or-is-it-raw/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip77 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 1 hour ago, webrunner5 said: Pretty good article about it. I think the comments say more than the article. BMD obliviously is never going to use it in their cameras now that they have bRaw. I doubt Red or Arri is going that way. And I am not positive, but I think you Have to use an Apple computer to use it. So that is another turd. And is Resolve ever going to let you use in it it? Might be a good idea but looks like you are going to have to kiss Atomos's butt, and lick Apple's ass to use it.... https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/05/07/understanding-prores-raw-is-it-prores-or-is-it-raw/ I read the comments below the article and why are so many people missing the fact that Resolve and Premier and almost all cine cameras already support Apple Pro Res? I understand Pro Res RAW would be an additional license but that's only because its new. Sony cine cameras already use Pro Res RAW so not sure what app the complaining is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 58 minutes ago, Skip77 said: I read the comments below the article and why are so many people missing the fact that Resolve and Premier and almost all cine cameras already support Apple Pro Res? I understand Pro Res RAW would be an additional license but that's only because its new. Sony cine cameras already use Pro Res RAW so not sure what app the complaining is about. "ProRes RAW Post Production. As we know, ProRes is owned by Apple. ... So the only way to edit ProRes RAW, is currently with Final Cut 10. Unfortunately there is no support for Adobe Premiere Pro or After Effects as well as no support on BlackmagicDaVinci Resolve.Feb 11, 2019" So you are going to Lick Apple's ass. And if you don't own an Apple, or use FCP you are shit out of luck. To me it is a no starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I'd be pretty shocked if Premiere didn't make it usable in their program at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 1 minute ago, thebrothersthre3 said: I'd be pretty shocked if Premiere didn't make it usable in their program at some point. I wouldn't hold your breath that Resolve uses it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: I wouldn't hold your breath that Resolve uses it. Resolve maybe not because they want people to use their own cameras. Would be kind of a bitch move though. Though I'd be cool recording in Prores RAW and transcoding to regular prores in post. It would still be beneficial especially if you transcode to prores 444. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeng Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 17 hours ago, ade towell said: Have you got any footage you can share with us Zeng, you mentioned creating alexa luts earlier in this thread I think Alexa rec709 based monitoring luts that is. I'll try to shoot some side by side Alexa and Z6 over the next week. Was asked to do this over on dvxuser. ade towell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip77 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 6 hours ago, webrunner5 said: "ProRes RAW Post Production. As we know, ProRes is owned by Apple. ... So the only way to edit ProRes RAW, is currently with Final Cut 10. Unfortunately there is no support for Adobe Premiere Pro or After Effects as well as no support on BlackmagicDaVinci Resolve.Feb 11, 2019" So you are going to Lick Apple's ass. And if you don't own an Apple, or use FCP you are shit out of luck. To me it is a no starter. And what program do you use to edit B-RAW from BM? There's only one for that one also. Do you need a hint? 6 hours ago, webrunner5 said: "So you are going to Lick Apple's ass. And if you don't own an Apple, or use FCP you are shit out of luck. To me it is a no starter." The same train of thought goes for B-Raw as a non starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 BRAW is open source, there is already a plug-in for native windows Premiere support: https://autokroma.com/BRAW_Studio/index.html I gave Z6 a try yesterday, lovely ergonomics. But I didn't figure out an easy way to switch from AF-S to AF-C (miss the AF switch/button from Nikon DSLRs)? More troublesome, without exposure meter in video, how are people shooting? just winging exposure from LCD view?! Seems like an external monitor with exposure tools is a must, but then you got the HDMI lag... Nikon really needs to fix both those issues ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Skip77 said: And what program do you use to edit B-RAW from BM? There's only one for that one also. Do you need a hint? The same train of thought goes for B-Raw as a non starter. Resolve and bRaw are totally free, and bRaw is a open Codec that is FREE for anyone to use in their cameras and anyone's NLE. That is a Hell of a lot different than Forcing you to Only use a Apple, and FCP, a Apple product, and Having to pay a license to Apple to even have it in your camera, or NLE, and having to pay Apple for FCP, no free version. See how many F ing times you have to Pay Apple. You don't have to pay BMD anything unless you want the full version of Resolve, and even then it is for life it seems, and only 299 bucks. And they didn't charge a dime when they introduced the bRaw upgrade. Even Panasonic wants to rip your ass for V Log, Sony is good at it also. I don't see how anyone can be Anti BMD. They have done more for the average guy to make stuff affordable than the rest of them combined. Thomas Hill and Emanuel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted May 4, 2019 Super Members Share Posted May 4, 2019 45 minutes ago, Django said: More troublesome, without exposure meter in video, how are people shooting? just winging exposure from LCD view?! It has histogram and zebras in video mode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 yeah i'll still take a simple exp meter over having to shoot with this type of cluttered view.. can you at least toggle zebras/histogram via custom button (like the front FN ones by the grip)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted May 4, 2019 Super Members Share Posted May 4, 2019 58 minutes ago, Django said: yeah i'll still take a simple exp meter over having to shoot with this type of cluttered view.. can you at least toggle zebras/histogram via custom button (like the front FN ones by the grip)? Highlight controls can be, the histogram is part of the cyclic Disp button press sequence. Its a bit less cluttered than that one, which I'm guessing is a Panasonic one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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