Canon EOS R full frame mirrorless talk hots up

[Luke Mason]

Just now, Mattias Burling said:

In sure there is. But they haven't got the right tools, otherwise the job would have been done.

They have, I worked closely with ML team for a while. For example, a firmware dump can be extracted from the camera's AF assist LED (blinking binary code to a receiver). The whole reason the job hasn't been done is because they choose not to.

[MdB]

This looks better than I expected. The C-Log and 10bit our are way more than I thought they were going to give us. The crop doesn’t bother me. Rolling shutter isn’t great, but can be worked around. Can always shoot in 1080 as well. 

[jonpais]

It’ll be great for those locked-off shots on a tripod.

[Geoff CB]

The crop and high RS is going to eliminate this as an option for many. On the other hand the ND adapter is a fantastic feature.

 

[MdB]

4 hours ago, Django said:

Focus Guides + Peaking

 

Thank you! So it did inherit the focus aid that uses the DPAF to determine focus. That to me is a HUGE HUGE advantage over everything else, hands down. 

Now the question: is it only with native lenses? that would be very disappointing if so...

 

[wolf33d]

1.75x crop. Lol how could you even care canon? This company is a scam. And they will sell tons. 

[jonpais]

Why should Canon care if even their loyal customers don’t?

[dvcrn]

Yes the 4K crop sucks, but I personally like this camera a lot. It ticks most of the boxes that I was I was looking for in a camera so I'll likely get one. That is of course unless panasonic changes my mind. Maybe the thing that bugs me more than the 4k crop is 120fps 720p ? 

[Django]

35 minutes ago, MdB said:

Thank you! So it did inherit the focus aid that uses the DPAF to determine focus. That to me is a HUGE HUGE advantage over everything else, hands down. 

 

 

Yeah this is an awesome feature for focus pulls, never thought i'd see it outside of Canon's C line.

[MdB]

13 minutes ago, dvcrn said:

Maybe the thing that bugs me more than the 4k crop is 120fps 720p

Agree with that. 4K is preferred to me. I don’t mind having a FF option if available, but want a close to S35 crop as the primary. 

Just now, Django said:

Yeah this is an awesome feature for focus pulls, never thought i'd see it outside of Canon's C line.

Me either. But also has implications for stills here too, especially with the adaptability the mount will have. 

[Andrew Reid]

MbD. Canon apologist of the year.

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

Why should Canon care if even their loyal customers don’t?

I am starting to think this is part of the problem!

[MdB]

18 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

 

MbD. Canon apologist of the year.

 

Andrew Reid - struggles with accuracy of a string of a whopping 3 letters  

I can think of worse things to using this Canon, like dribbling over the Nikon Zeeee...

You mocked the 1DC. AFAIK in 2018 you still own that camera. Crop and rolling shutter and all. 

[Trek of Joy]

DPAF is nice, but the rest of the package is so disappointing. I guessed $2500 for the zoom and $2k for the 50, Canon blew that out of the water. And I thought the recent Fuji lens announcements were expensive. Just looking at what each camera offers, the Zed's are a few steps above the R. I don't see how the most devoted Canon apologist can call this anything other than a colossal disappointment. There's no compelling reason to add a R to an existing Canon kit beyond the novelty of going mirrorless - factoring in the EF adapter if you don't want to buy RF lenses. And it will take a couple generations just to get where the competition is right now. 

But given the fact this looks like the 5d4's sensor with all its shortcomings after an additional two full years of development, its clear Canon is not going to put its army of patents to work in its mirrorless line and they're still not touching the cinema line as well. Its the worst of all worlds. DPAF is enough to keep their plastic entry level cameras selling well, but its only going to take them so far at the upper end of the market when they don't offer IBIS, fewer FPS, more blackout between shots, poorer video spec with that insane crop, and their slow readout sensors are so far behind Sony/Nikon.

As the DSLR market continues to contract, CaNikon had no choice to go mirrorless -- its the segment of ILC's that's actually growing. Seems like only one got the memo.

Cheers

Chris

[jonpais]

Especially when you consider that a weather sealed stabilized optically and mechanically flawless lens like the XF 50-140mm f/2.8 sells for $1,400. The only justification I can see from a video shooter’s perspective for buying any of Canon’s fast expensive full frame glass is if you’re able to take advantage of creamy bokeh.

[MattH]

I must admit that this despite its obvious flaws the R does have some appeal.   The colours look great straight out of camera, autofocus should work great.  All intra internal which I don't think the Sonys have.  And yes the filters adapter does look good.   (I did put ibis in this list but then I realised its only digital stabilisation).

But here's what troubles me.   Its the fact that the features of this camera don't even work with each other:  If you want the filter adapter you cant use it with the new lenses.  So either you have to buy separate filters for the new lenses anyway or not use the new lenses.     And if you aren't using the new lenses it already starts to fall apart as a coherent system.  Its basically a EF mount camera with the mirror removed and a filter slot put in.

Then comes the 4k crop.   You could think, well does it matter because you could use a speed booster in order to give you close-to full frame coverage in video and full frame stills with the same lenses.  Firstly that would be a pain in the ass to have add an adapter every time you wanted to take a full resolution still with the very same lens, because if you don't bother to do that you may as well have a crop sensor camera to start off with.   But secondly, and more importantly, if you use a speed booster you can no longer use the filter adapter.   So now you are stuck with the crop and probably will have to resort to aps-c lenses to get wide shots.

So although you could argue that you have options, it kind of seems like an endless merry go round of compromises and second guessing yourself.

Imagine if they had made the flange a little deeper to put a filter slot into the body itself and had full frame 4k.  Then all those problems would be gone. THEN it would make perfect sense as an integrated hybrid system.

[jonpais]

Shutter closes when turning off camera. Dedicated on/off wheel does seem a little odd.

[gnomesteel]

On 8/31/2018 at 7:37 PM, MdB said:

Nope, quite the opposite. Canon have said recently that they are going to take video more seriously in their stills cameras. I think it makes sense, they took some time to build and establish the C-line, but now that it is used by working pros, they can use those features in their hybrids. They aren’t going to lose C-line business doing this, but will lose business to Sony. They don’t like that. 

They’ve started already putting 4K and C-Log hybrid and consumer products.

Apologies, I meant 4k full frame. 

[Snowbro]

The 720p 120p actually looks about as good as the sony 1080p 120p. I haven't seen any a7iii 120p that looked clear and smooth. I wonder if that is moire on the building in the background though (building). Does anyone know if the 5d iv had bad rolling shutter in 1080p? I have tested the 1dx ii and it has virtually none in 1080p. 

 

[noone]

Very disappointing in some ways and nice in others.

Best things to me are the adapters (which will hopefully make EF lenses virtually native) and for the well heeled, some of those lenses.

 

The first camera seems to me to have been made as an A7 (FIRST version) killer though while the Nikon Zeds seem to have at least been made as A7ii/A7Rii killers.

IF you have a heap of current Nikon AF lenses, the Zeds make a lot of sense.      IF you have a lot of Canon EF mount lenses, then you can use this OR you can use one of the various Sony's.

If you are starting from scratch, you can pick and choose your poison.

All these cameras will mainly sell for stills shooting and video will be a much smaller part of the equation but the new Canon seems to miss all round to me.

THREE frames per second tracking, THREE, really???       Even the first A7 does 5fps with tracking! (I don't use AFC tracking very often so didn't use it all that much when I had an A7 and the A7s can not track focus to save its life but still!).      When it was released, the original A7 didn't have any lenses that you could/would really want to use tracking AF and it couldn't track anything really fast moving but it really does have AFC that works ok at 5fps.

The EV -6 AF seems nice though is fudging a bit by measuring with a faster lens but at the same time it  seems it isn't the greatest low light camera (or it would have higher ISOs I would think) so that is a let down for me.      Can not wait until someone test the EV -6 AF in low light against the A7s/A7sii (EV -4 in spec but better than that in practice).

 

Has eye AF but only in AFS just like the first version A7 cameras (they also do it with Canon lenses though focusing slowly).

As SYSTEMS on potential, the Canon and Nikon new systems look great but just on the first CAMERAS, I think I still prefer Sony overall but each has some very nice things to like (and dislike).

Nikon COULD have the most upside for me but they would need to open up their mount and I have got rid of all my Nikon gear now.

Sony is the only one that can take my three E mount and one A mount AF lenses but while very good (and the Sony Zeiss 55 1.8 and FE 85 1.8 especially so), they CAN be replaced currently,

Sony and Canon can both  use my Canon lenses.      

I would love to try this new Canon alongside a Sony A7s (or A7siii) walk around at night with my Canon wide angle tilt shift lens.        From what I have seen so far, I think I am still with Sony.

[Andrew Reid]

12 hours ago, Mako Sports said:

https://nofilmschool.com/2013/01/canon-legal-team-modify-hack-firmware-1d-x-1d-c

also 

 

Did you look at the date on that article? It's 2013.

You say Magic Lantern "aren't cracking any more cameras"

Well I have news for you. Since 2013 they have done quite a bit!!!

The reason they do not deal with 1D series is that it's an expensive professional line, and they want their projects to be of use to normal people not just the cash rich.