Canon EOS R full frame mirrorless talk hots up

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

@webrunner5 wan’t joking when he said Sony’s colors are becoming almost more Canon than Canon. ?

Yeah the newer Venice CS is a big improvement for the average person with  the newest Sony's.

[Snowbro]

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Well, I am sure it will sell well. It's not like it has any competition or anything ?

 

I dont think we will ever see it out of stock

[plucas]

Given that rolling shutter in 4k is terrible, how well would Premiere CC's "Rolling Shutter Repair" work?

[Mattias Burling]

7 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Use common sense and A7III vs A7RIII documentation and facts and you will know. 

Ok, was just curious. Even if you had footage to show I wouldn't "know" until I've tried it myself anyway.

 

[ntblowz]

32 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Ok, was just curious. Even if you had footage to show I wouldn't "know" until I've tried it myself anyway.

 

Z7/A7RIII FF 4K - Pixel Binning , Z6/A7III FF 4K - Supersampling, EOS-R 4K - 1:1 pixel readout

[Mattias Burling]

36 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Z7/A7RIII FF 4K - Pixel Binning , Z6/A7III FF 4K - Supersampling, EOS-R 4K - 1:1 pixel readout

That looks great. Specially the red tones and the higlight roll off. How did you get the skin so smooth?

[Yurolov]

16 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

That looks great. Specially the red tones and the higlight roll off. How did you get the skin so smooth?

No, you don't understand Mattias. This one does 500 quarks while the other does 100 quarks, so as you can see you are clearly mistaken. 

[Mattias Burling]

25 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

No, you don't understand Mattias. This one does 500 quarks while the other does 100 quarks, so as you can see you are clearly mistaken. 

I love shallow depth of quarks  

6 hours ago, Snowbro said:

I dont think we will ever see it out of stock

I haven't seen any camera out of stock since the BMCC. Those days are behind us I think. Its like with TVs. Everyone bought a flat screen already and aren't gonna rush to the store to buy HDR anymore than they did 4K or 3D. 99% are happy with their DSLR, TV, etc and sticks with it until they feel an upgrade is needed. No one needs to stand in line for cameras, iphones or TVs anymore.

Forum nerds like us might upgrade a lot but we are not enough to drain stocks.

(There are exceptions like the D850 but I dont buy that it was because of popularity. It sat on shelves all over Europe when it was sold out in the US.) 

[Mattias Burling]

I so rarely get to see camera commercials (don't have regular TV) that it does put a smile on my face when I do
I would have a hard time developing these with a straight face.

 

 

Off topic but also funny

 

 

[padam]

16 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

They are both soft. It looks similar to the old 5D Mark III (stock video mode) in 2012. There's 6 years of Canon progress for you.

Yes, it's not the sharpest, but it is definitely not as soft as that.

 

[Andrew Reid]

5 minutes ago, padam said:

Yes, it's not the sharpest, but it is definitely not as soft as that.

Wait for the full review and I will show both side by side. I have a 5D Mark III and EOS R so nothing to stop a good old 1080p comparison, like it's 2009.

I also have a 5D Mark II. When the III came out, people complained it wasn't more detailed than the 2009 camera

10 years later, I can't believe we're still having the same fucking discussion.

[padam]

16 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Wait for the full review and I will show both side by side. I have a 5D Mark III and EOS R so nothing to stop a good old 1080p comparison, like it's 2009.

I also have a 5D Mark II. When the III came out, people complained it wasn't more detailed than the 2009 camera

10 years later, I can't believe we're still having the same fucking discussion.

I've seen plenty of 1080p footage from both the III and the IV and the latter is clearly better and I don't see the reason why the R would be any different to that - not that the III set any kind of a standard anyway. And yes the II and III is not that different in terms of sharpness, although Philip Bloom said the latter can be sharpened more because the lack of moiré and aliasing.

The 6D II is much more similar to the 5D III in terms of its softness.

[Mattias Burling]

And still "Indie Game The Movie" on Netflix looks great and is a really good moviey.

Shot on a stock 5Dii, no ML.
Even used the crappiest audio gear from the DSLR revolution (Zoom H4n + NTG2) and still sounds great (its all about placement and location of course).
 

[webrunner5]

40 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

And still "Indie Game The Movie" on Netflix looks great and is a really good moviey.

Shot on a stock 5Dii, no ML.
Even used the crappiest audio gear from the DSLR revolution (Zoom H4n + NTG2) and still sounds great (its all about placement and location of course).
 

Trailer for it. Yeah it got the job done. And it in 2012 it was pretty special for something Bob could just go down the street and buy the camera. We have come a Long ways since then.

 

[Andrew Reid]

56 minutes ago, padam said:

I've seen plenty of 1080p footage from both the III and the IV and the latter is clearly better and I don't see the reason why the R would be any different to that - not that the III set any kind of a standard anyway. And yes the II and III is not that different in terms of sharpness, although Philip Bloom said the latter can be sharpened more because the lack of moiré and aliasing.

The 6D II is much more similar to the 5D III in terms of its softness.

You're imagining that I'm afraid.

The 6D II has a lot of aliasing going on, a lot of moire. It's a step back from the 5D Mark III, which had this under control.

What you perceive as more 'sharpness' is due to false detail.

The Canon body you want for the best 1080p is actually the 5DS, believe it or not. I don't know what footage you've been watching, with undisclosed amounts of digital sharpening applied in post and different shots revealing different perceived amounts of detail but if you look at a chart you will see the truth.

It goes 5D3 and 5D4 pretty much identical, 5D4 maybe a bit more digital sharpening applied but same 'real' detail as 5D3, that is to say not much, then step up to 5DS and A7S (full pixel readout).

45 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

And still "Indie Game The Movie" on Netflix looks great and is a really good moviey.

Really though? For me the 1080-look stands out a mile as dated, low-fi. If that suits the intentions of the documentary then ok, maybe it's about being minimalist, anti-technology, anti-4K. Getting back down with nature, or whatever.

The content in that trailer is great, but it's not a piece of amazing cinematography - nothing unique or special about that look at all.

For me that trailer is just not cinema.

At this blog we have spent the past 7 years trying to get closer to film, not closer to 2009 Digital.

In 4K however, sharpness is a different story.

Canon's 4K is soft as well, but here is where I don't care.

I find a more natural, softer per-pixel detail and contrast in 4K beneficial to how cinematic the overall picture looks. If it is too sharply detailed like the Sony A6500, you can end up with quite a fatiguing image on the big screen.

You can see that the GH5S and NX1 clearly have the "technically" superior fine detail levels.

But the 1D X II / 5D IV / EOS R have a mojo to their un-sharpened images which helps make detail look more natural when downscales to fit a 1080p TV or projector, NOT pixel peeped, i.e. viewed normally full-screen.

[wolf33d]

9 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Z7/A7RIII FF 4K - Pixel Binning , Z6/A7III FF 4K - Supersampling, EOS-R 4K - 1:1 pixel readout

This. @Mattias Burling see, with this simple fact it's easy to understand why the Z6 will be as good or better than the Z7. 
We have seen this with the A7 series anyway. 

[Andrew Reid]

Pretty confident the Z6 sensor works in a similar way to the A7 III, but I prefer Nikon's colour science and higher bitrate codec to that camera, so for the same price as the A7 III along with the better ergonomics, it's a good choice... going to be more attractive than Sony for a lot of people. Now, if only they would release the damn thing in the shops.

What we shouldn't get too hung up on is the pixel binning, vs 1:1 readout, vs supersampling. I am not sold on a "sharp" 4K image. As long as it doesn't have a moire & aliasing problem, I'm fine with the amount of detail I get across a very broad range of 4K cameras. I don't mind that the EOS R is on the soft side. It actually helps it when downsampled on YouTube, or on someone's 1080p laptop screen or TV. A sharp Sony A6500 image tends to get GH2-syndrome and people say it looks too digital, because the downsampling of a streaming browser player creates nasty aliasing and a fatiguing image from that sharp detailed 4K file. That's not nice. With the EOS R, the image is soft to pixel peep, but nice to actually WATCH in the real world.

In fact I am warming to it having seen the images, it's not all about specs.

We engage emotionally with images when we watch a film. We don't count the pixels.

However when we try to qualify the quality of an image from a camera, in a review, we DO count the pixels!

It's a strange paradox, a disconnect between how we actually need the image to be on screen, and how we think we need it to be.

[Django]

Ain't that the truth.. tired of hearing how "soft" Canon IQ is.. I could just as easily turn it around and say GH5 is nasty over sharpened & supersampled A7X ends up looking videoish.

Had a go at Z7 & XT3 the other day, all really capable cameras albeit each with their own quirks.. but really there is no excuse to hate on any of these latest-gen units.

That being said I'm still having issues with EOS Rs autofocus using adapted EF glass, even with the 50mm 1.8 STM i just bought. It's inconsistent, sometimes laggy or plain confused. Kinda driving me nuts, when my 2012 first gen C100 DPAF never skips a beat.. 

[hijodeibn]

48 minutes ago, Django said:

Ain't that the truth.. tired of hearing how "soft" Canon IQ is.. I could just as easily turn it around and say GH5 is nasty over sharpened & supersampled A7X ends up looking videoish.

Had a go at Z7 & XT3 the other day, all really capable cameras albeit each with their own quirks.. but really there is no excuse to hate on any of these latest-gen units.

That being said I'm still having issues with EOS Rs autofocus using adapted EF glass, even with the 50mm 1.8 STM i just bought. It's inconsistent, sometimes laggy or plain confused. Kinda driving me nuts, when my 2012 first gen C100 DPAF never skips a beat.. 

Indeep this is really disapointing, a break deal for me, I hope a firmware upgrade will solve this issue in the short term.....

[Snowbro]

10 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I love shallow depth of quarks  

I haven't seen any camera out of stock since the BMCC. Those days are behind us I think. Its like with TVs. Everyone bought a flat screen already and aren't gonna rush to the store to buy HDR anymore than they did 4K or 3D. 99% are happy with their DSLR, TV, etc and sticks with it until they feel an upgrade is needed. No one needs to stand in line for cameras, iphones or TVs anymore.

Forum nerds like us might upgrade a lot but we are not enough to drain stocks.

(There are exceptions like the D850 but I dont buy that it was because of popularity. It sat on shelves all over Europe when it was sold out in the US.) 

A7iii