jonpais Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: You're imagining that I'm afraid. The 6D II has a lot of aliasing going on, a lot of moire. It's a step back from the 5D Mark III, which had this under control. What you perceive as more 'sharpness' is due to false detail. The Canon body you want for the best 1080p is actually the 5DS, believe it or not. I don't know what footage you've been watching, with undisclosed amounts of digital sharpening applied in post and different shots revealing different perceived amounts of detail but if you look at a chart you will see the truth. It goes 5D3 and 5D4 pretty much identical, 5D4 maybe a bit more digital sharpening applied but same 'real' detail as 5D3, that is to say not much, then step up to 5DS and A7S (full pixel readout). Really though? For me the 1080-look stands out a mile as dated, low-fi. If that suits the intentions of the documentary then ok, maybe it's about being minimalist, anti-technology, anti-4K. Getting back down with nature, or whatever. The content in that trailer is great, but it's not a piece of amazing cinematography - nothing unique or special about that look at all. For me that trailer is just not cinema. At this blog we have spent the past 7 years trying to get closer to film, not closer to 2009 Digital. In 4K however, sharpness is a different story. Canon's 4K is soft as well, but here is where I don't care. I find a more natural, softer per-pixel detail and contrast in 4K beneficial to how cinematic the overall picture looks. If it is too sharply detailed like the Sony A6500, you can end up with quite a fatiguing image on the big screen. You can see that the GH5S and NX1 clearly have the "technically" superior fine detail levels. But the 1D X II / 5D IV / EOS R have a mojo to their un-sharpened images which helps make detail look more natural when downscales to fit a 1080p TV or projector, NOT pixel peeped, i.e. viewed normally full-screen. What about the abominable rolling shutter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 23 minutes ago, Snowbro said: A7iii For some inexplicable reason, still the number one best-selling FF mirrorless on Amazon and B&H... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noone Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 5 hours ago, webrunner5 said: Trailer for it. Yeah it got the job done. And it in 2012 it was pretty special for something Bob could just go down the street and buy the camera. We have come a Long ways since then. Yeah, try going down the street to buy a camera today (any camera)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 12, 2018 Author Administrators Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 hours ago, jonpais said: What about the abominable rolling shutter? Yes, it's not good news on that front. It's a shame as the image is actually very pretty. Review coming soon. jonpais 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Joy stick replaced with touch bar - good idea? Control wheel on back of camera removed and replaced by ring on lenses - good idea or Canon’s way of making third-party lenses less desirable? If you don’t care for oversampling, just enable s35 crop mode. Oh, forgot - it doesn’t have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted October 13, 2018 Super Members Share Posted October 13, 2018 15 hours ago, Snowbro said: A7iii Never seen it out of stock. Online it often seems B&H and other big retailers gets to represent the entire market. When anyone that followed for example the early blackmagic releases know that it is the last place to order if you want something early. 18 hours ago, wolf33d said: This. @Mattias Burling see, with this simple fact it's easy to understand why the Z6 will be as good or better than the Z7. We have seen this with the A7 series anyway. Yes I see it clearly. I mean look at those colors. Not to mention the battery life and menu layout. Looks great. To be totally honest and all kidding a side. After reading in the other thread where you used the term "superior sensor size" Im sure agreeing to disagreeing is the best we can do on subjects like these. You can go by numbers, I will stick to final output. What ever works for us. After all, it is our own money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 hours ago, jonpais said: Joy stick replaced with touch bar - good idea? Control wheel on back of camera removed and replaced by ring on lenses - good idea or Canon’s way of making third-party lenses less desirable? If you don’t care for oversampling, just enable s35 crop mode. Oh, forgot - it doesn’t have one. FF on EOS R isn't oversampled AFAIK. When you set it to 4K and record 1080p externally though, I'm pretty sure you get a 4K downsampled feed (as on 1DC/1DX2/5D4). The Mfn-Bar doesn't replace the joystick. AF point selection is made by either the D-pad or the excellent Touch & Drag feature on the display. I find it actually better then the joystick, its faster and by using my left thumb to set AF points, my right thumb can stay on AF-ON. The touch display settings & overall behavior eclipses by far the severely limited one on the A73. The polarizing Mfn-Bar itself I am finding very useful, best setup for me is Kelvin. Being able to change temperature on the fly with a tap or swipe has never been so effective. Lens control ring is fantastic idea, you can even get it declicked for smooth aperture control. If innovation makes competition 'less desirable' so be it. Warming up to the flip screen too. Overall ergonomics & deep level of customization are really strong points of this camera imo. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, Django said: FF on EOS R isn't oversampled AFAIK. When you set it to 4K and record 1080p externally though, I'm pretty sure you get a 4K downsampled feed (as on 1DC/1DX2/5D4). Cool beans. I should have clarified I was referring to s35 mode on the a7 III. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntblowz Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 18 hours ago, Django said: That being said I'm still having issues with EOS Rs autofocus using adapted EF glass, even with the 50mm 1.8 STM i just bought. It's inconsistent, sometimes laggy or plain confused. Kinda driving me nuts, when my 2012 first gen C100 DPAF never skips a beat.. M50 work flawlessly with EF lens using normal adapter or hacked speedbooster, seems like the R in EOS-R stand for reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted October 13, 2018 Super Members Share Posted October 13, 2018 I asked this fellow to make a AF comparison between the 6Dmkii and the EOS-R, and he did. Haven't watched it myself yet (waiting for the coffee to get done). Should be interesting. EDIT: lol, just saw the frenchie The results weren't shocking since AF wise all mirrorless still gets its ass handed to it by DSLRs. But compared to my personal experience of adapting EF to Fuji, Panasonic, Sony and JVC it was actually pretty impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Similar test results just posted in the Nikon Z thread using the FTZ adapter (vs D850). So yeah not a shocker DSLR > MILC using adapted glass but still a bummer though considering how few (and expensive) native RF/S glass is at the moment. This is definitely an area where Fuji & Sony currently have a lead advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 13, 2018 Author Administrators Share Posted October 13, 2018 Was that video a comparison of Dual Pixel AF in live-view on both... or a comparison between Dual Pixel AF on the EOS R and through the viewfinder on the 6D II? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted October 13, 2018 Super Members Share Posted October 13, 2018 There is no viewfinder with video on the 6D. And not really on the EOS-R either. Its just an EVF aka "Pretend viewfinder". Essentially a tiny version of the back LCD cramed into a hole. Its a loupe replacement more than a viewfinder replacement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I think what Andrew is asking is if it's comparing EOS R DPAF vs 6D2 OVF off-sensor AF (vs 6D2 DPAF via Liveview). And the answer is yes. It's also a pretty low-stress test (daylight, isolated subjects). I started seeing even bigger miss rates in low-light / low-contrast subjects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 13, 2018 Author Administrators Share Posted October 13, 2018 Yes was he comparing DPAF to DPAF..... Or DPAF to 6D Mark II OVF AF sensor? 6D II has both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padam Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 4:15 PM, Andrew Reid said: You're imagining that I'm afraid. The 6D II has a lot of aliasing going on, a lot of moire. It's a step back from the 5D Mark III, which had this under control. What you perceive as more 'sharpness' is due to false detail. The Canon body you want for the best 1080p is actually the 5DS, believe it or not. I don't know what footage you've been watching, with undisclosed amounts of digital sharpening applied in post and different shots revealing different perceived amounts of detail but if you look at a chart you will see the truth. It goes 5D3 and 5D4 pretty much identical, 5D4 maybe a bit more digital sharpening applied but same 'real' detail as 5D3, that is to say not much, then step up to 5DS and A7S (full pixel readout). Here is another short test, I guess this one is useless as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 13, 2018 Author Administrators Share Posted October 13, 2018 Kai has the sharpness turned up on the 5D III compared to the IV. It doesn't have more aliasing. FUCK. Do I have to do a 1080p comparison in 2018? KILL ME NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padam Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 That may be, but the detail looks worse on the III in both examples...as well as this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 13, 2018 Author Administrators Share Posted October 13, 2018 This is a bit like arguing over Mini DV tape has the best quality. Mitch doesn't say what picture style settings he's using, so that video doesn't exactly help inform the World's Most Boring Debate, but if the 5D4 really is more detailed (as opposed to just more digitally sharpened) in the video above of bricks, then what little you are gaining is offset by the moire and aliasing - it seems to have more than the 5D3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inazuma Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 8:05 AM, Mattias Burling said: I haven't seen any camera out of stock since the BMCC. Not to be pedantic but the Sony a6300 was always out of stock. So much so that I sold mine a month or two later for £100 more than I bought it for. And there are other examples too such as the XT2. 2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: Kai has the sharpness turned up on the 5D III compared to the IV. It doesn't have more aliasing. FUCK. Do I have to do a 1080p comparison in 2018? KILL ME NOW Haha, yeh 1080p comparisons are somewhat redundant these days with 4k about. The differences between even a c100 and a d5500 are somewhat hard to perceive once it's been through YouTube's compression, whereas 4k Vs 1080p is immediately obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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