webrunner5 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Why does a C100 look so good with a on paper total crap Codec? They always seem behind, but are sort of ahead. Doesn't make much sense to be honest. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted October 15, 2018 Author Administrators Share Posted October 15, 2018 Yes, it's extremely weird. Maybe Canon have a technology we're just not aware of in-between sensor and processor, that does wonders for the image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I like how everyone lost their mind when the 5d iv/1dx ii had 500 mbps on 4k 24p, this camera has mp4 at 480 mbps 4k 24p and no one complains about the size lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Canon Log and Nikon Flat make no sense but always look great and are so easy to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 This camera only needs 60 MB/s on the 4k, so a 95 MB/s UHS-1 SD should work fine? I know it depends on the minimum/average speed. I have CFAST cards, but don't feel like spending a bunch on UHS-2 cards to try it out if I get curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Saw a video on vimeo where the guy said that the eos r actually super sampled its 1080p when in the 1080p cropped mode (apsc mode or whatever idk). I noticed on mattis video that when he switches from full frame 1080p to the cropped 1080p, it is extremely detailed on the guys face. That looks more like c100 ii footage to me lol. Its at 13:25 in the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: At ISO 1600, again surprising. Canon LOG on the EOS R is virtually noiseless, very smooth indeed, with abundant colour info. The X-H1 shot, same ISO, F-LOG, has more noise in the blacks and a harsher look overall. Why does Canon LOG keep so much colour info and the warmness of the light, whereas F-LOG washes it out? EOS R: Fuji X-H1: Not trolling, Andrew, but the Canon noise reduction appears to be smoothing out fine texture and detail and there's an unusual color fringing going on (green in the windowsill, red in the dresser) unless those are the actual colors - that is absent in the more detailed Fuji shot. May I ask what the WB was in this comparison? Are those graded samples? Because they both look rather underexposed for log. Noise can always be reduced in post, detail cannot be added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted October 15, 2018 Super Members Share Posted October 15, 2018 My guess is the fringing is lens dependent. Some of my non L Canon glass fringe like crazy. It can definitely be a PITA sometimes. 6 hours ago, mercer said: Canon Log and Nikon Flat make no sense but always look great and are so easy to work with. True that. One thing that still gets me very exited about the R every time I think about it is, all this good stuff we are talking about + built in variable ND. That is going to be so freaking useful. I loved it on my Sony A7ii and NX1 with fotodiox but hated removing it every time I didn't wanted it or needed AF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said: My guess is the fringing is lens dependent. Dome of my non L Canon glass fringe like crazy. It can definitely be a PITA sometimes. Thanks, Mattias, that was my guess as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted October 15, 2018 Super Members Share Posted October 15, 2018 51 minutes ago, Snowbro said: Saw a video on vimeo where the guy said that the eos r actually super sampled its 1080p when in the 1080p cropped mode (apsc mode or whatever idk). I noticed on mattis video that when he switches from full frame 1080p to the cropped 1080p, it is extremely detailed on the guys face. That looks more like c100 ii footage to me lol. Its at 13:25 in the video. Yeah I agree. I commented on the video but haven't checked if he answered. I was think maybe he labeled them wrong or something because he says its a quality loss in the crop but my eyes see it as more detailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 36 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said: Yeah I agree. I commented on the video but haven't checked if he answered. I was think maybe he labeled them wrong or something because he says its a quality loss in the crop but my eyes see it as more detailed. Here is his comment quote on the vimeo video I saw: "Something that Canon decided to do, which is not often talked about by blog reviewers is the 1080 crop mode. This mode over samples the crop 4K image and the result is an even sharper 1080 thats perfectly suited for Vlogs and online output. The image is significantly sharper." The video where he mentions this (in a comment reply), He says to be a senior trainer at Canon Burbank. He has had the camera for months: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 yeah i suggested this too here on my first day with EOS R: EF-S crop mode in FHD appears super sampled, just like the 1080p HDMI output is in 4K mode (same as in 1DC/1DX2/5D4) Snowbro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I ordered this camera (canceled) to use mostly for photos and some b cam stuff, but I just really want a smaller, more descreite 1dx ii lol. I might just get an xt3 for some travel stuff until canon makes a pro rf camera. The lenses are very amazing and they have shown huge improvements in what they are releasing for video features. The next RF camera should be a total beast. I would still like to see this camera put next to a c100 ii in cropped mode and the 4k vs the c200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurolov Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 If i am going to crop I may as well shoot 4k though so not too certain if there will be any benefit for me with the crop mode in 1080p. I am still waiting for some kind of test with the rf lens with 1080p footage as against the c100 or as against a nice ef lens with an adaptor. Guess I'll wait for Andrew's review tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted October 15, 2018 Super Members Share Posted October 15, 2018 Ok Im only sharing this because the guy for some reason has had 2 out of 3 EOS-R related videos posted in this thread and its always nice to get closure Thought this looked nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 7 hours ago, webrunner5 said: Why does a C100 look so good with a on paper total crap Codec? They always seem behind, but are sort of ahead. Doesn't make much sense to be honest. ? Not all encoders are created equal. Some are better optimized than others, even if they are spitting out the same codec. Even Canon cameras produce vastly different results with what on paper is the same encoder. Their dedicated video cameras have far more robust cooling than stills cameras, which means that the processors inside can run faster and hotter. That increased computational power that results is what allows cameras like the Cxxx series to use the same encoder found in their stills cameras, but without all of the compromises that otherwise might be made to keep the thermal envelope in check. That translates into a better image. You will see that with many cameras from different manufacturers as well. Some can produce great results with what seems like a limited bit rate, while others generate relatively poor output with a high bit rate, even though all are H.264. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowbro Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 22 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said: Ok Im only sharing this because the guy for some reason has had 2 out of 3 EOS-R related videos posted in this thread and its always nice to get closure It's almost halloween, he just wanted some zombie skin ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Mokara said: Not all encoders are created equal. Some are better optimized than others, even if they are spitting out the same codec. Even Canon cameras produce vastly different results with what on paper is the same encoder. Their dedicated video cameras have far more robust cooling than stills cameras, which means that the processors inside can run faster and hotter. That increased computational power that results is what allows cameras like the Cxxx series to use the same encoder found in their stills cameras, but without all of the compromises that otherwise might be made to keep the thermal envelope in check. That translates into a better image. You will see that with many cameras from different manufacturers as well. Some can produce great results with what seems like a limited bit rate, while others generate relatively poor output with a high bit rate, even though all are H.264. True, but the fact they are dedicated video cams also means the sensor & processor are fully tuned towards video IQ. For C100 all the magic happens pre-codec: Canon Super 35mm CMOS Sensor The EOS C100 Mark II Digital HD Camera employs the same single Super 35mm Canon CMOS image sensor as the rest of the Cinema EOS camera family and includes the same innovative strategies that have established the outstanding image performance of these cameras. This 8.3 megapixel sensor maximizes the size of the individual photosites each of which deploys two photodiodes to ensure high speed removal of accumulated charge, which in turn helps elevate the effective sensor dynamic range. Allied with innovative Canon signal extraction strategies that enhance the sensor signal to noise performance allows unprecedented elevation of the ISO setting in this professional Super 35mm camera, while always protecting its dynamic range. Canon DIGIC DV 4 Image Processor The four 1920 x 1080 HD R Gr Gb B video components from the image sensor are pre-processed and then sent to the DIGIC DV 4 processor for advanced video processing. This includes separate interpolation of the sparsely sampled R and B HD components to form full frame 4K for each. The two green HD components are also interpolated to form a single full frame 4K Green component. These three 4K RGB components are then down-sampled to create a set of YCC 422 HD components that have high MTF, improved edge transitions, low false color moiré, and enhanced overall color reproduction. These components are further processed preparatory to sending them to the AVCHD and MP4 codecs. 1 hour ago, Yurolov said: If i am going to crop I may as well shoot 4k though so not too certain if there will be any benefit for me with the crop mode in 1080p. perhaps lower RS. that's the 4Ks biggest downfall imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 It's operator error. The camera can't do all the thinking for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PabloB Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Seems there were micro jitters when using the digital stabilisation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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