Panasonic announcing a full frame camera on Sept. 25???

[Django]

Looks like you might be right about the 1.5x crop on D5.. so let's hope Canon doesn't pull a 2016! 

[AlexTrinder96]

I'd consider the new Canon if they'd sort the crop out, their autofocus is wonderful!! No perfect camera and all that ?

[jonpais]

8 minutes ago, mercer said:

Yeah that was a pretty severe crop but does it really matter to you... have you ever owned a Canon or even contemplated buying one? Do you foresee yourself ever buying a Canon? I think you’ve answered that in the past.

I’m pretty sure it does. 

I consider every camera. 

[AlexTrinder96]

1 minute ago, jonpais said:

I consider every camera. 

I don't doubt that!! Whatever works for you! 

[jonpais]

?

[Trek of Joy]

On 9/3/2018 at 10:16 AM, DBounce said:

I think it will be an EF mount like the EVA1. 

I'm thinking the same thing.

On 9/3/2018 at 10:27 AM, Django said:

That would be a mistake imo, going against Canon's excellent AF integration of their own lenses. EVA1 can't even do continuous AF and hunts just to get basic one touch center-only AF. It's ok cuz it's a cine cam and most will use cine glass and/or follow focus system but on a compact hybrid that would be a disaster imo.

Obviously they would have to improve AF, but the alternative is introducing new lenses and trying to get people to buy into a new system competing against CaNikon with their native lens adapter capabilities and Sony who is far more entrenched in FF mirrorless and riding a wave of really good 3rd party AF lenses. I think that's a big ask compared to CaNikon allowing a seamless path for current users as an alternative to Sony.

While more is better for us, realistically how many are going to buy into a Panasonic FF mount and a couple lenses? Few stills shooters will add a costly second system with little hope for enough lenses to build a kit around appearing in the next 2 or 3 years. That's not an issue for cinema cameras, but for a hybrid its going to be a massive hurdle. They could open source it, but as we've seen with Sigma, manufacturers don't just jump in and start making lenses for the sake of producing them. They waited for a long time for sales of E-mount bodies to reach a volume that made it viable to offer Art lenses in E-mount. Anything Panasonic isn't going to reach those kind of sales numbers, so we're not looking at great 3rd party support either.

Quite frankly, Panasonic going FF is just an odd decision the more I think about it. We'll see what they bring, but right now the move to FF seems to be grasping at straws.

IMO they (and m43 in general) would be in a better position if they were more of a partner with Olympus than a direct competitor. They share the same mount, but that's really all - you're choosing sides if you want the best glass due to things like internal corrections and dual IS functions. This is where m43 went wrong - it started the mirrorless movement and has become a niche market in a very short amount of time. 

Chris

[newfoundmass]

The problem with going with the EF mount is that it'd be  positive short term but a negative long term. Canon will continue with DSLRs for as long as possible, and there will be a ton of old lenses to use, but the time will come when the EF mount will become obsolete as mirrorless takes over for Canon. Do you really want your entrance into the full frame game to be based on a mount that will likely decline greatly over the next 10 years? It kind of has to be a new mount. 

One thing that they could possibly do, which could be interesting, it's bring VSM as seen on the LS300 to the camera, allowing the use of m43, APS-C and pretty much every other type of lense to be used with an adapter without vignetting. This is an option, honestly, that I'm surprised more camera makers haven't done. Being able to punch in exactly what sensor size your lens covers is such a powerful feature imo. 

[IronFilm]

On 9/5/2018 at 4:16 AM, Django said:

Looks like you might be right about the 1.5x crop on D5.. so let's hope Canon doesn't pull a 2016! 

I'm here from the future to report that yes indeed Canon "pulled a 2016"

[Oliver Daniel]

On 9/5/2018 at 1:32 AM, newfoundmass said:

The problem with going with the EF mount is that it'd be  positive short term but a negative long term. Canon will continue with DSLRs for as long as possible, and there will be a ton of old lenses to use, but the time will come when the EF mount will become obsolete as mirrorless takes over for Canon. Do you really want your entrance into the full frame game to be based on a mount that will likely decline greatly over the next 10 years? It kind of has to be a new mount. 

One thing that they could possibly do, which could be interesting, it's bring VSM as seen on the LS300 to the camera, allowing the use of m43, APS-C and pretty much every other type of lense to be used with an adapter without vignetting. This is an option, honestly, that I'm surprised more camera makers haven't done. Being able to punch in exactly what sensor size your lens covers is such a powerful feature imo. 

I think the new mount might be an adapter type mount, like the Kinemount. Such as releasing an EF adapter, M43 and Leica SL. Could be completely wrong though. But I do think EF will be heavily involved somewhere. 

[Lux Shots]

13 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I'm here from the future to report that yes indeed Canon "pulled a 2016"

We all knew that there was no way in the world Canon would jeopardize their Cinema Line. Not for the love of Christ. Not ever. 

Just wait for all the Canon fanboys and girls to sing the praises of Touch AF like Canon invented it or something. It's about time they catch up to a 5 year old feature from Panasonic and Olympus. ?

[jonpais]

I will give Canon the benefit if the doubt - I just don’t think they’re able with their current tech to offer uncropped 4K. Look at the other specs and it appears their camera struggles compared to Nikon and Sony.

[Cinegain]

Yeah, but like RedBull Racing isn't sitting back and watch Mercedes and Ferrari dominate without putting up a fight. So they're changing engine manufacturers... because if it ain't bringing victories home, you gotta change up something to get it up on that #1 podium spot. Feel like Canon's just happy to sit back and see where it goes... (which is downhill)

[Dan Sherman]

51 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

Yeah, but like RedBull Racing isn't sitting back and watch Mercedes and Ferrari dominate without putting up a fight. So they're changing engine manufacturers... because if it ain't bringing victories home, you gotta change up something to get it up on that #1 podium spot. Feel like Canon's just happy to sit back and see where it goes... (which is downhill)

LOL, they aren't winning because they've alienated One driver the other is a petulant child, and Adrian still thinks aero is the only thing that matters.

not to mention, the team has alienated all the other engine manufacturers hence the reason they can't get a good one!

 

[jonpais]

It’s not going to be an EF mount.

[Trek of Joy]

If they can sort out AF, an adaptable mount could work. Let's say it really is the 8k ILC with a new mount. With a short enough flange distance - in theory - they could do a 2x m43 4k crop with m43 lenses, a 5k-ish oversampled APS-c 4k with APS-c lenses and 8k with FF glass. That would require a m43 adapter, if the flange distance is like Nikon's 16mm that could be enough to make it happen. A EF adapter would make a lot of sense in this scenario if they actually want to move a lot of product. A m43 adapter would say "we're not abandoning m43." Plus you could use focal reducers and FF lenses in m43 mode and swap adapters to shoot FF.

I think they could make it happen, but at what price? I doubt their first FF will be cheaper than the $2500 GH5s, which had the benefit of reduced development costs since so much was shared by the GH5. And how far is Panasonic willing to step on/over EVA1 territory?

If the AF isn't up to Canon, Nikon or Sony levels, stills shooters will largely ignore this camera, in which case it seems like it could be just another comet streaking across the mirrorless landscape, like the NX1.

Chris

[Mmmbeats]

Some low-level rumours out and about (not usually that reliable, but worth discussing I guess).  Certainly enticing if anywhere near accurate:

Quote

Confirmed and Unconfirmed details of Panasonic FF camera from a mid level Panasonic engineer who worked on early camera development:

Unconfirmed: the camera will use a new Panasonic sensor unsure of MP but believed to be around 30MP

Confirmed: full frame readout in 4k no pixel binning, no crop in 4k 24/25

Confirmed: internal 4k 10bit 4:2:2 recording up to 60p (all i frames in 24/25 believed to be around 200mbs)

Unconfirmed: possible 4k raw recording (may be external output only, there had been some early difficulty with hdmi and raw output)

Unconfirmed: two card slots not sure if they are 2 x sdxc or 1x cfast 2.0 and 1x sdxc (probably depends on whether raw recording is internal or external)

Unconfirmed: early prototype had no ibis due to sensor size and other internal elements, may change on release.

Unconfirmed: new ff lenses will have is, unsure if all new lenses will have it but if there is no ibis then it would make sense.

Confirmed: audio adaptor similar to gh5 with more robust connection and additional controls

Partially Confirmed: there will be some type of variable nd, not sure if this is an add on adaptor or built in.

Confirmed: adaptors will be available for other lens mounts canon ef etc… unsure if they will work with the nd adaptor.

Confirmed: weather sealed body, unsure if it is fully weather sealed but speculation is it is shower /splash dust proof.

Ports: headphone, mic, usbc, hdmi, flash to double as timecode sync as with Gh5s

Pricing unavailable: estimated to be in the region of 3k

Panasonic are confident this new camera will be a big seller and will seriously challenge Sony and Canon as the top selling ff mirrorless camera.

https://www.43rumors.com/ft2-confirmed-and-unconfirmed-details-of-panasonic-ff-camera/

[eyesuncloudedphoto]

51 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

Some low-level rumours out and about (not usually that reliable, but worth discussing I guess).  Certainly enticing if anywhere near accurate:

https://www.43rumors.com/ft2-confirmed-and-unconfirmed-details-of-panasonic-ff-camera/

Hope they don't shoot themselves in the head by omitting IBIS. That is, if this camera is going to compete with high level Sony and Nikon mirrorless (future a7Siii and Z7) at the same or similar price point.  

ND is great news if confirmed, as well as "official" adapters.  

Everything in this list is speculative, TBH, almost all can be "guessed" without any "source" at all. 

[Dan Sherman]

This sound likes someones complete daydream.   I can't see this happening for under $5k! 

 

Quote

Unconfirmed: possible 4k raw recording (may be external output only, there had been some early difficulty with hdmi and raw output)

 

[Borbarad]

Well, I think the thing with IBIS is overheating / the heatsink. Just look at the GH5 with the tiny m4/3 Sensor  and the required body thickness. Compared to the G9.

if that and we would expect it to be a GH5 spec FF I would imagine we are talking Nikon D5 mirrorless style body.

 

B

[DBounce]

59 minutes ago, Borbarad said:

Well, I think the thing with IBIS is overheating / the heatsink. Just look at the GH5 with the tiny m4/3 Sensor  and the required body thickness. Compared to the G9.

if that and we would expect it to be a GH5 spec FF I would imagine we are talking Nikon D5 mirrorless style body.

 

B

Why is IBIS such a big deal for video? I see it ruin many shots as it can cause weird sensor shift artifacts. I would rather just throw the camera on a gimbal to be honest.

1 hour ago, Dan Sherman said:

This sound likes someones complete daydream.   I can't see this happening for under $5k! 

 

 

If this was anyone other than Panasonic I would agree. But I would not underestimate Panasonic... that's like bring a knife to a gun fight.