Panasonic announcing a full frame camera on Sept. 25???

[mercer]

47 minutes ago, Dan Sherman said:

They want an 8K consumer camera by the 2020 Olympics the easiest way to do that is with a full frame sensor!

Is their codec going to be 800mbps all-i? If Panasonic is really going to go all in with 8K FF, they could be the next company out of the camera business. IMO. 

[Robert Collins]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

I thought I read that there is a strong rumor suggesting 16mm flange distance and a 2x crop mode, so in M4/3 crop mode, with an adapter, m4/3 lenses will work. Not a bad idea to keep existing customers that may be interested in moving to FF.

Unless there is some type of internal/external Raw or internal ProRes, I don’t really see the point of a FF Panasonic. It seems like they’re grasping at straws here... especially if it doesn’t have IBIS.

Something like this makes most sense to me. It also would explain Panasonic's 'need' for a high mega-pixel sensor. At 50mp for FF - you have 12.5mp for M43 - in other words a GH5s sensor capable of 4k video.

[newfoundmass]

Is there a reason Panasonic is all in on DFD? Given pretty much everyone else has gone with PDAF, it would seem that it's not that difficult to implement. So why stick with DFD? Is there a benefit to it that I'm missing? 

I'm not even one of those people that needs amazing AF. It's just really confusing. 

[matthere]

It's going to make sense for Panasonic to pick up Blackmagic RAW isn't it? 

Both of these companies have a vested interest in m43 ?

[Borbarad]

https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-panasonic-ff-camera-has-more-than-42mp-and-is-designed-for-both-stills-and-video-users/

hmmm .......... more than 42 MP ...

 

B

[jonpais]

Panny FF is looking less and less attractive by the day. The cost, most likely a whole new lens ecosystem, a wholly unnecessary (for my needs) 42 megapixel sensor, lack of IBIS and PDAF will in all likelihood prevent me from ever considering this camera. If I were to buy the camera, I’d have zero interest in adapting m43 lenses to it. Might as well shoot with my G85 or GH5. Or even pick up the EOS R, for that matter. Heck, the Nikon Z6 already looks better on paper from where I sit.

If I want to play with RAW, best option for me is still the batcam - for one thing, I’ve already got a dozen m43 lenses lying around.

If IBIS and FF aren’t an issue, the X-T3 looks incredible. And their native lenses are the best built of any system I know of coming out of Japan. Price is reasonable too.

8K holds zero interest for me at all and if this is where Panasonic is headed, I may be jumping ship very soon.

[KnightsFan]

@jonpais agreed, though I wonder if they plan for a cheaper, lower megapixel version later on.

42 mp stills and 8k video are overkill. it would be amazing if they dd a full sensor readout with an in-camera 4K\2k downsample, with good low light and rolling shutter performance.

[SR]

18 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

@jonpais agreed, though I wonder if they plan for a cheaper, lower megapixel version later on.

42 mp stills and 8k video are overkill. it would be amazing if they dd a full sensor readout with an in-camera 4K\2k downsample, with good low light and rolling shutter performance.

Funnily enough, I am in the market for a full frame camera that has above 40 mp (then again, I am a photographer primarily). With a preordered BMPCC4K already in the back pocket for short films, I was considering getting the Nikon D850 for stills. And renting the GH5 whenever run-gun projects came along. But if someone can combine the D850 stills and the GH5 video, and include IBIS, I'm sold.

[Zak Forsman]

Was considering a GH5s as a b-cam to my EVA1, but maybe I'll rent that as needed and pre-order this for March. I *do* miss having the option to shoot FF video. It was the one regret in moving away from my 5D3 with Magic Lantern. Fingers crossed that it *will* offer FF video but also a Super35 crop mode. That's just about all the versatility I'd need.

[mercer]

26 minutes ago, Zak Forsman said:

Was considering a GH5s as a b-cam to my EVA1, but maybe I'll rent that as needed and pre-order this for March. I *do* miss having the option to shoot FF video. It was the one regret in moving away from my 5D3 with Magic Lantern. Fingers crossed that it *will* offer FF video but also a Super35 crop mode. That's just about all the versatility I'd need.

Hey, this is slightly off topic but I was curious of your input. With a lot of cameras being released with 10bit 4:22 coming to the market, the lines are blurred as to what is considered a professional cinema camera nowadays. I know you were a big Blackmagic fan but then went EVA1 instead of UMP, is there a reason why you decided to go that route?

[Mokara]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 2:44 PM, newfoundmass said:

Is there a reason Panasonic is all in on DFD? Given pretty much everyone else has gone with PDAF, it would seem that it's not that difficult to implement. So why stick with DFD? Is there a benefit to it that I'm missing? 

I'm not even one of those people that needs amazing AF. It's just really confusing. 

What a tech company can and cannot do is dictated largely by it's IP position and the position of competitors. No doubt they are capable of implementing PDAF but they might not be able to because of blocking positions by their competitors.

[KnightsFan]

2 hours ago, SR said:

Funnily enough, I am in the market for a full frame camera that has above 40 mp (then again, I am a photographer primarily). With a preordered BMPCC4K already in the back pocket for short films, I was considering getting the Nikon D850 for stills. And renting the GH5 whenever run-gun projects came along. But if someone can combine the D850 stills and the GH5 video, and include IBIS, I'm sold.

That's fair. I personally have no need for >24mp stills or >4K video... Or even 2k if it's a nice clean down sample.

[Zak Forsman]

3 hours ago, mercer said:

Hey, this is slightly off topic but I was curious of your input. With a lot of cameras being released with 10bit 4:22 coming to the market, the lines are blurred as to what is considered a professional cinema camera nowadays. I know you were a big Blackmagic fan but then went EVA1 instead of UMP, is there a reason why you decided to go that route?

in the GH4 days, i felt BMD had the better color science. Now with the EVA1 and GH5s, I think Panasonic has the edge. BMD always seemed to "suffer" from a bit of brown-muddiness under artificial light. and i feel I'm still seeing that in the current crop of cameras, although to a lesser extent. But I'll have a chance to do a side by side comparison between my EVA1 and a UMP in preparation for a feature I'm DPing. Looking forward to that.

[Dave Maze]

58 minutes ago, Zak Forsman said:

in the GH4 days, i felt BMD had the better color science. Now with the EVA1 and GH5s, I think Panasonic has the edge. BMD always seemed to "suffer" from a bit of brown-muddiness under artificial light. and i feel I'm still seeing that in the current crop of cameras, although to a lesser extent. But I'll have a chance to do a side by side comparison between my EVA1 and a UMP in preparation for a feature I'm DPing. Looking forward to that.

I second that. Still a lot of IR pollution in the BMPCC 4K footage I’m seeing. The GH5S handles the colors better than the Blackmagic.....but that Blackmagic raw tho... that’s nice. All you need is a Hoya IR cut filter to fix the Blackmagic issue 

[Zak Forsman]

40 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said:

I second that. Still a lot of IR pollution in the BMPCC 4K footage I’m seeing. The GH5S handles the colors better than the Blackmagic.....but that Blackmagic raw tho... that’s nice. All you need is a Hoya IR cut filter to fix the Blackmagic issue 

thanks for the reminder. I still have my Hoya IR Cut somewhere. Totally forgot about that. Will dig it out for this camera test.

[Video Hummus]

Panasonic doesn’t want to use PDAF because they don’t want to pay a licence or royalty fees. Panasonic developed their own sensor so they don’t have to pay a licence or royalty fees. Canon has patents on DPAF and they aren’t about to give up the only thing that Canon has going for it.

Sony owns the sensor market. They make the sensors in the DJI drones, in the GH5s, the Nikon D850, iPhones, etc...(the whole reason the sensor in the Canon R sucks is because its not a Sony sensor) Sony’s whole market strategy with the A73 was to set the price point lower to squeeze out the competition. They make royalties on all these other sensors used by a lot of their competitors. They can afford to take hits to their margin when they make money on their competitors cameras.

Computational photograpy is the future. More powerful chips in cameras are the future. Don’t believe me? Pull out that iPhone or Samsung smartphone in your pocket. Look at what samsung and apple are doing. They are the #1 and #2 camera brands in the world. Panasonic needs to innovate in this direction.

DFD is f*cking amazing for AF-S. I for one hope panasonic can improve on their DFD tech for AF-C. It can be generalized, software updated, and not baked into hardware. I’m glad they are taking an innovate approach to improving it with machine learning (ML).

I own a A73 and, yes, the autofocus is good if you want to be lazy but it only gets you 85% of the way there for video. If you aren’t a vlogger or bad wedding filmmaker you are already shooting in manual to nail the shot and get paid.

This FF camera is Panasonics lasts chance to be relevant in this shrinking market. They need to innovate the hell out of the mirrorless camera and offer something novel or die on the vine. I hope they don’t leave m43 users behind. The industry is moving to FF for the money, so they can sell you a $3000 camera with decent autofocus and $2500 lenses so you can hold it 2 feet from your face and be the next Peter McKinnon.

I hope they have a m43 compatible mount and sensor that gives me multi-aspect ratio, can take m43 glass, can shoot great 4K 120fps m43 video and options for great FF glass if I want it.

I don’t want to lug around a 200-800mm full frame lense that costs 14k and weights 9 pounds. This is the undeniable advantage of m43.

[IronFilm]

13 hours ago, Zak Forsman said:

in the GH4 days, i felt BMD had the better color science. Now with the EVA1 and GH5s, I think Panasonic has the edge. BMD always seemed to "suffer" from a bit of brown-muddiness under artificial light. and i feel I'm still seeing that in the current crop of cameras, although to a lesser extent. But I'll have a chance to do a side by side comparison between my EVA1 and a UMP in preparation for a feature I'm DPing. Looking forward to that.

Could the brown-muddiness be IR pollution, tried shooting them with an IR cut filter?
 

11 hours ago, Zak Forsman said:

thanks for the reminder. I still have my Hoya IR Cut somewhere. Totally forgot about that. Will dig it out for this camera test.

Ah whoops, I see someone else replied with exactly my same thoughts.

 

[Jimbo]

On 9/15/2018 at 7:40 PM, mercer said:

Unless there is some type of internal/external Raw or internal ProRes, I don’t really see the point of a FF Panasonic. It seems like they’re grasping at straws here... especially if it doesn’t have IBIS.

I have to disagree! Panasonic have had an absolute hit with the GH line, culminating in the GH5. If they can bring their incredible video prowess to a full frame body where we get Panasonic video AND 42mp stills with 13+ stops of dynamic range, Varicam-esque colour science, and two card slots for the pros, then they will strike gold. It's basically two fingers up to Canon and Nikon, hence the countdown and 6 month early announcement. Damage them pre-orders... I just hope they excite with the lens lineup.

[Dan Sherman]

4 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

 It's basically two fingers up to Canon and Nikon, hence the countdown and 6 month early announcement. Damage them pre-orders... 

I'm assuming you mean the 2 middle ones .........   

[Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Dan Sherman said:

I'm assuming you mean the 2 middle ones .........   

Ha! I’m British so my finger swearing approach is slightly different. However... I think 2 x American middles would work nicely here ?