Panasonic announcing a full frame camera on Sept. 25???

[no_connection]

50 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Rumor has it that S1 also have pixel shift that make 50MP image.

Now that would be sweet, have only seen it mentioned for S1R so far but good info is far in between all the noise.

I hope price going to be somewhat decent for the S1. S1R gonna be way too much just like Z7.

[androidlad]

6 hours ago, kye said:

What exactly does "super sampled" mean?

4K60 down sampled from 8K??

That would be absolutely stunning to see!

The source on Weibo was suggesting a supersampling algorithm similar to how C300 derives 2K 444 from 4K sensor - 4K 444 from 8K readout.

[eyesuncloudedphoto]

Concerning the body design/controls: I'm personally happy with the size and format, but then again Panasonic was always a company that understood a camera should be as hefty as needed for the application. 

I know that it will not make a difference to the final design, but I do wish they could implement a few design traits: 

1) WTF is with this on/off switch? Why can't it be around the shutter button? As it is now, it needs an awkward thumb movement to use

2) I wish the front/rear control wheels were metal. I know it makes no difference in use but I'm spoiled with the feel on my Fujis

3) Why can't we have a mirrorless camera with backlit buttons? Nobody shoots in dark venues anymore? 

4) I liked the X-H1 top panel so much (with ability to show info even with the camera off) that seeing this orange-lit display makes me cringe a bit

5) When other companies are going to steel Canon's idea of recessed strap eyelets? 

 

[jonpais]

Good points.

[Dave Maze]

I heard after we filmed this video a rumor from a rep that the Panasonic S1/R may do raw internal. Anyways, here is a top ten video going over some things I haven’t heard a lot of people talk about  

 

[anonim]

17 hours ago, Django said:

Sorry but I'm just baffled by Pannys attitude here, I mean the rep won't even confirm what the 24-105 aperture is..?!!! or anything at all for that matter.. notice by the end of the interview, the rep is the one holding the mic to Dave.. SMH.

I'm sure the S1 will have good things for video but with virtually zero information aside 4K60p, i find this the most cringe worthy camera announcement as of late.

I also find the lens alliance thing a bit confusing.. the whole system just kinda sounds thrown together and rushed in a last ditch me too effort.  

Actually, I've found all content of presentation in general more serious - as little bit shameless: actually showing anything but achiеvable possible plan. Even about future codec their words are shamelessly indeterminate: "codecs will be best possible for video work"... i. e. clearly with idea to wait and see what other manufacturers will do and than try to surpass their offer. Probably having better cooling know-how and codec-science knowledge in sleeves by which could beat concurrency, I think that Panasonic makes step further in a cheap (and not just a bit dirty) game of delaying, aka stealing time as more and more main business strategy...

What is ugly to me is that Panasonic indeed can - as it looks like - make, for example 24-105 lens with f4 , f2.8, maybe even spectacular f2 - but decision again depends solely of selling need - as they come out with m43 10-25 f1.7 lens only just at the moment when m43 system selling seems jeopardized... It has to be tolerated, but lesser from company that earlier had idea of "serving to community with best possible tools" as one of the main marketing motto... What a difference in comparison to proudly disclosure announce of GH5 with road map...

Of course, all such business background procrastinated estimations are logical and even expected, but know they are made so brutally obvious that looks to me very unattractive - even if there's no any doubt that Panasonic easily could make the best and most advance offering.  

 

[PannySVHS]

@anonim Your words are to the point. Wondering where Matt Frazer was. For the launch of both the GH4 and GH5 he was doing an awesome job, and Panasonic gave him the freedom to do so. This announcement of an anouncement is not appetizing at all. I must say that as a super Panny fanboy. Hopefully Matt Frazer will do the real annoucement next year and do its info campaign, hopefully with great news like internal 10bit and even better video specs than GH5, like 10bit for VFR/slomo, 10bit for 4K 60p, higher bitrates for higher framerates, 3 stops better lowlight- so it makes up for using DOF when doing deep staging at lowlight or slomo.

[ntblowz]

8 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

I heard after we filmed this video a rumor from a rep that the Panasonic S1/R may do raw internal. Anyways, here is a top ten video going over some things I haven’t heard a lot of people talk about  

 

VK from PV was the first one with internal RAW rumor, he got quite good source for this Pana S1 stuff so far.  His one said it might be paid upgrade for internal RAW, well with XQD card it should be plenty fast enough. But good to hear that from another source!

[no_connection]

9 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

I heard after we filmed this video a rumor from a rep that the Panasonic S1/R may do raw internal. Anyways, here is a top ten video going over some things I haven’t heard a lot of people talk about  

Nice thanks.

You probably picked this up already but it's 400 Megabyte not megabit. So a lot of room for data transfer. Rurmor has it that they will put best possible coded in there that they can, and if that is true it will have internal prores raw, cause it can. Not that that prores raw is be all end all but it's not bad ether.

On the contrast based AF. It was stated somewhere to have deep learning built in, so in theory it could rival your ability to manual focus. If that ability is used like we want or just for tracking and identifying faces who knows. It's not like pdaf don't come with drawbacks ether as seen by several interesting lines on some cameras in certain light. And that you have to fill them in all the time.

For the back display, Maybe they thought it would interfere with the HDMI port. Or as I have been using the flipoutscreen as an armrest to hold the camera it might be too fragile for such a large camera system and they did not want to risk users using it in that way. Why don't anyone make a cheap small HDMI monitor that is powered off usb just for this use? Don't need much to replace flip out screen the few times you need it. Or maybe there is an app for that :P

[Robert Collins]

4 hours ago, anonim said:

Actually, I've found all content of presentation in general more serious - as little bit shameless: actually showing anything but achiеvable possible plan. Even about future codec their words are shamelessly indeterminate: "codecs will be best possible for video work"... i. e. clearly with idea to wait and see what other manufacturers will do and than try to surpass their offer. Probably having better cooling know-how and codec-science knowledge in sleeves by which could beat concurrency, I think that Panasonic makes step further in a cheap (and not just a bit dirty) game of delaying, aka stealing time as more and more main business strategy...

What is ugly to me is that Panasonic indeed can - as it looks like - make, for example 24-105 lens with f4 , f2.8, maybe even spectacular f2 - but decision again depends solely of selling need - as they come out with m43 10-25 f1.7 lens only just at the moment when m43 system selling seems jeopardized... It has to be tolerated, but lesser from company that earlier had idea of "serving to community with best possible tools" as one of the main marketing motto... What a difference in comparison to proudly disclosure announce of GH5 with road map...

Of course, all such business background procrastinated estimations are logical and even expected, but know they are made so brutally obvious that looks to me very unattractive - even if there's no any doubt that Panasonic easily could make the best and most advance offering.  

 

What struck me most about the presentation was how 'photography centric' it was. It was 95% about photography. The presentation was titled 'Lumix - changing photography'. There were 3 Lumix brand ambassadors - all of them photographers. When the slide with the two cameras came up - the high resolution camera didnt even mention video....

My guess is that their 'photographer brand ambassadors' made it clear to Panasonic that an M43 sized sensor simply doesnt cut it in the professional 'photography' market and that this is a market that they feel they need to be in (and I suspect the G9 hasnt sold well). So Panasonic are going FF mainly to try and capture the pro photography market. Comments about 'best possible codec' are entirely meaning less and cant be conflated into 'internal raw recording' - noone is going to say that they plan to have a 'crummy video codec.'

[newfoundmass]

This is speculation, but I think one of the reasons they've focused on the photography aspect is because the success of the camera long term hinges on photographers adopting the system. They've already established themselves with video shooters and know they have their attention, so it would make sense to focus on the photography side in the early stages. 

[matthere]

Interesting look at the new Panny cams from the BBC.. They mention the possibility of "colour depth difference" between the two cameras?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-45627055

[kye]

Interesting video interview of Yosuke Yamane at Photokina on the origin of the S1..

Of note was the part where he says "In developing full frame cameras, we have decided to target professionals in both photography and videography categories".

I'm not sure how good the translation on this is, but it's unlikely that it's an error saying that it's targeting professional videographers.  He was talking about the ergonomics at the time, but I think it extrapolates.  He also spoke about how they've lead the market previously and the culture around their camera development is of new challenges and bringing things to customers that exceeds other companies offerings.  

Of course, who knows what that really means - 4K RAW, 4K60, 6K, 8K, or if it's just a FF GH5(s), but it's probably a good sign from our point of view about the video specs.

[wolf33d]

RAW video on the S1? 

https://www.l-rumors.com/l3-panasonic-s1-and-s1r-camera-might-output-raw-video/#disqus_thread

 

Also read the comments, one seems more interesting that the rumor itself. 

 

I can say this as 100% FACT; I know that Atomos is working CLOSELY with Panasonic engineering on the possibility of using HDMI as a data buss for raw sensor data. I can also say that I know a Panasonic pro/Varicam manager that is COMPLETELY against this idea and is aggressively lobbying against this. This is a true fact. Now,...in my "opinion" I believe that this Pro/Varicam manager does not want raw sensor data in a new "S" camera and believes should be reserved for high end camcorders "only". Raw sensor data is certainly technically possible. The biggest problem is the politics INSIDE Panasonic across the different managers. Raw over HDMI is NOT something that all managers want to see in a $3000 camera. It's going to be a "board room" fight. Not a real technical problem.

[Andrew Reid]

I wonder if they end up charging for it like V-LOG at first? Or was that just a failed experiment.

I can see RAW on the S1R for $3.5k. Not sure about for $2k on the S1.

[Nikkor]

My Japanese cousin who's father in law is president of Panasonic Camcorder division confirms this. He told me that he needs to bribe higher instances to make this happen (even raw internal).

Since this is not exactly legal I can't start a kickstarter but if we can all agree on sending money to one western union account I think we could make this happen. Goal would be 100.000$ US (nothing if you ask me, I mean, full frame raw)

I'm currently based in Egypt, I hope that's not a problem.

[Mmmbeats]

33 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I wonder if they end up charging for it like V-LOG at first? Or was that just a failed experiment.

I can see RAW on the S1R for $3.5k. Not sure about for $2k on the S1.

I hope it does end up on the S1.
I always figured the the V-LOG-L charge was a way of keeping it out of the hands of inexperienced graders as much as anything?

[ntblowz]

VK say probably $500 for RAW license like FS5

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1258368-REG/sony_cbkz_fs5rif_pxw_fs5_fs_raw_output.html

 

Feels like S1/R will be the Mini Venice, FF RAW with IBIS.

 

[Mmmbeats]

Are there likely to be advantages for video of the S1 over the S1R, or the other way round, would people think?

[KnightsFan]

31 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

Are there likely to be advantages for video of the S1 over the S1R, or the other way round, would people think?

Typically, lower megapixel versions are better for video, because fewer pixels means less processing for a full sensor readout. So it's likely the S1 will have an advantage over the S1R for video.